percysmith

Four daily to SYD and three to MEL too.

In my experience there's three categories of traffic. There're are the Australians coming here or proceeding further to China. There are the Mainland Chinese going there. Then there's the HK locals O&D traffic.

Think my dollar's better - I'm a non-elite manufactured spending practitioner and my card companies directly pay Asia Miles Limited for the miles I generate from my coupon/Apple trading activities. Better than negotiating rates via OW.

If demand is inelastic CX can certainly deny benefits to both foreign OW and own MPC alike.

Not absolutely true. In fact we're now increasing Avios as a form of alternative currency to AM. The March reval has no effect on us getting Zones 1-3 (i.e. as far from HKG to Japan and Korea) redemptions on CX with Avios in any class nor any effect on us getting Economy class for any distance. We don't use Avios for premium LH but we never did so before anyway.

In fact Avios can be manufactured in HK now. And lots of us are into it. In fact when I reposted the article into hongkongcard.com there're already posts worrying that CX is seeking to act against the Avios CX redeemers as well as the AA redeemers http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...w.php?id=14873 #4

Make it too easy and CX is essentially cannibalising US$ revenue for AA miles. I think CX is wising up to this.

It lets CX practice Retail Price Maintenance – i.e. it won't sell an ex-HKG premium ticket to YVR cheaply but it'll let me redeem one or even two for peanuts if I let it wait til close in. Very Hongkie practice.


Would you buy if CX cuts down on CX premium awards available for AA miles? If yes then CX has accomplished its objective.

percysmith

P.S. At the moment we cannot manufacture AAdvantage miles directly in HK yet (hence our interest in U.S. credit cards for non-residents). I won't be surprised if AA offers it thru a co-branded credit card now that it flies here. When that happens CX will really have the Barbarians at the Gates and the drawbridges will go up.

percysmith

Well it's not just AA members, it's also people like me.

But even I'm finding T+360 (I should have first divs as a MPO member right) I've been finding the pickings hard going:

And while I'm on T+360 redemptions let me offer up one more data point: on last Tuesday (for 30 April 2016 Labour Day holiday):

BKK: nothing til PM
OKA: nothing at all

This was 8AM, wife and I set up on two computers as if we're trying to grab iPhones from iReserve at 08:00. Fortunately I grabbed the 28 April 2016 night flight into BKK - we have ambitious plans to reach Samui via NST with FD (so ambitious I need to check my insurance for missed connections cover for my way back).

NYC212

This is another point constantly being made here, and not entirely accurate. Hong Kong is awash with point-collecting credit cards, all of which can be rolled into Asia Miles, some of which carry no fee, and all of which earn double miles or more on overseas purchases, a very significant mileage booster compared to the AA branded credit card, which only has the initial bonus. There are other unique mileage booster options in HK, like restaurants. On the other hand, AA customers collect miles only on high fares flying CX (H and above) - the reverse is not the case, CX pax collect AM on most AA fares - clearly a measure intended to discourage HK residents from using AAdvantage as their home program.

percysmith

I think our (HK members' side) gripe is not on the earn side but on the redemption side - we're providing all the rewards to AAdvantage members, we don't want your AA awards. It looks pretty one-sided unequal treaty from where we stand.

And unlike BAEC we in HK cannot join AAdvantage and earn AA miles easily from our credit card spend or travel on CX.

Of course CX is to blame for this - chasing AA redemption revenue whilst (in my opinion) hiking prices for own members through low release of premium LH and cheap SH.

But I guess it also is CX doing well this year or two. So well it has now decided to forgo AA redemption revenue. It might change its mind in the next downturn, but it has already forgone a lot of goodwill on both sides.

ijgordon

Um...no? The current discussion in the very long CX booking thread on the consolidated AA forum is currently around AA award seats not being bookable even when several are visible on BA/JL/QF.

Ah, silly me. All AA members, and only AA members, plan vacations 365+ days in advance. (FWIW, I have never done that).

I think people are losing sight of the fact that AA is a much bigger airline, with more passengers and more flights compared to CX, and any of the other OW carriers. So all else equal, yes, there will be relatively more AA passengers looking to book on the smaller carriers. And I'm sorry that by virtue of your geographic location, you don't really have the need to avail yourself of AA's huge network.

And yes, I do understand that the two "sides" can go back and forth on this topic ad infinitum.

percysmith

Well it's the same overcrowding complaint that we also have with Mainland tourists...

alphaod

What I meant was does reset it early change your membership year (say it's January 2015 to December 2015, but if you reset it, it becomes May 2015 to April 2016) or does it just extend it (so January 2015 to December 2015 is now January 2015 to December 2016)?

Guy Betsy

When SQ started restricting their premium J, F and R seats from other *A members, there were some grumbling but eventually life didn't end and people moved on. Some even got Krisflyer memberships and stared transferring their cc points over to redeem the coveted Suite tickets. LH does the same in restricting their F seats till a week before departure. As does ANA.

CX is merely doing the same. Their premium award seats can still be redeemed by partners (note CX is not saying that all premium seats will be restricted from partner airlines) but maybe with a fee, eg fuel surcharge like BA is doing and no one is complaining for AA to drop BA as a partner.

Guava

So you claim authority to speak on behalf of all MPC members? Sorry, this is not a rational discussion at all. MPC elites consciously chose to accumulate their flights with an inferior FFP for the purpose of mileage earn/burn. If by being a CX Diamond means that it will maximize your Op-up chances, then you win some and lose some, it is that simple. The AA members, especially those with no or low status have almost no chance of getting Op-up. Seems to me the trade off is clearly laid out - once you chose your preference/path, what's the point of complaining about "I can't have it both ways"?

Anyone who claims to fly a ton of F/J flights every single year ought to have done their own cost-benefit analysis to decide which path makes more sense. If your opportunity cost is some 400K miles that you could have earned additionally while simultaneously increasing your spending power on a per mile basis, with a net effect as though you would have earned an additional 900K AM, then it begs to ask, is all the extra Op-ups that you would have receive as a CX DM vs. AA OWE worth the difference? Then again, if you are flying F that often, what's the point of Op-ups? Seems to me, a frequent F flyer should always credit his flying miles to something other than MPC, it is only in the case of a frequent J flyer hoping for Op-ups that there may be a justification for going for CX DM.


Full disclosure: Long time MPC member but treated it as a frequent shopping program, which is what it really is. Flight miles go elsewhere. Asia Miles is by far my most important "mileage bank".

Guava

What SQ did was entirely self-serving at the expense of loyalty of *A membership. One of the main reasons why I am no longer loyal to *A is because I feel this is an alliance that has no principles and has too many "exceptions". It feels as though every single airline can claim their own shares of exceptions and exemptions. As a customer, I want a consistent experience, not having to memorize which ones want to claim which exceptions. So while it may be true that move earned them some short-term profits but eventually the novelty factor will wear off, which has already took place for a while now. SQ "Suites" is no longer special or anything close to it. Essentially, SQ traded short-term profits for more stable long-term gain, hardly a smart business strategy because high end airline products, similar to designer clothing, will all inevitably go out of fashion after a while. What's worse in SQ's case was that SQ opened up a wave of "exceptions" within *A that now everyone and their dog are claiming, you name it BR claims exceptions, LH claims exceptions, LX = no First class for partners, SA = no lounge access for certain *A members and etc. *A is eroding a key principle of airline alliance to their own detriments. While individual airlines surely enjoy the greater autonomy with less strings attached, it obviously comes at a cost. For SQ, it has short sightly traded its long-term profits for short-term gains while dragging the entire *A down with it. There are also other issues, for instance, *A members do not convey F lounge access to someone who will be flying or just have flown a long-haul Int'l First class segment on the same day when connecting to/from a short flight with no First class. Oneworld however makes it a policy that all members must adhere. It's doesn't take a genius to figure out which alliance is more customer-oriented.

BA and AA share all transatlantic revenue, which is why AA consents to do fuel surcharges for BA on awards. But BA doesn't have such arrangement with LA, so you can still bypass BA surcharges using LA redemption.

In any event, AM may very well head for another devaluation because accumulating AM other than flying is just way too easy. I am based in North America and don't deal with any Hong Kong based FI but AM has such extensive network of partnerships here that I am confident to say my ground based earning rate on a per $USD basis is way, way, better than any HKG based AM member even though HKG based members have access to a lot more promotions and sign up deals.

Cathay Boy

I think it's good that each airlines protect their own elites. Being in an alliance has many mutual benefits, but it shouldn't be forced communism. Just because AA is a partner doesn't mean AA has a god-given right to redeem F on CX, especially at significant reduced miles/points. Just like CX shouldn't scorn AA for giving away miles and points either, that's their choice. But I applaud CX for taking the steps to stop partner members from redeeming F cabins, just like I have no problem if AA/BA stops CX members from redeeming their F cabins.

We all make choices: do you want cheap upgrades and opportunity to earn tons of miles? Go to AA. Do you want classy service and a chance to redeem CX F class? Go to CX. Etc.

My company just denied my request to reduced my travels, gosh.... anyway, looks like I will be a CX DM for another year at least.... gosh I hope CX refreshes their PEY soon....

alphaod

I'm so sorry.

percysmith

I think those passengers travelling on paid F/J/PE/Y in Y/B/H have only themselves to blame if they don't read blogs and shop FFPs.

Those who want soft benefits with MPO have to pay with reduced choices on their redemptions.

It's the elites who qualify in K/M/L/V who bank in their miles with AM/MPO that have no choice though - they can't avail themselves of AAdvantage/BAEC membership arbitrage.

AA_EXP09

even then, I would still be fairly satisfied with this as a devaluation-410 HKD r/t for a TPAC given current availability for AA.