I'm speaking in general, there aren't that much F demand. They won't have a year round 77W just because you and a few others will travel CX F from time to time.

Revenue F? or Aa award F :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Revenue F

I guess you work in the airline industry and know all the data? :rolleyes:

Question I'm not asking rhetorically as I legitimately don't know the answer, is CX continuing to order 77Ws outfitted with 4 classes?

Absolutely the right question which I also do not know. If they are ordering more 4 class 77W then i can see CX thinks there are more opportunities for F routes. If not then logically they think they've maxed out F routes and then I would agree EWR did not warrant a F route.

Let's assume Wikipedia's current info on CX's orders is correct, a dangerous assumption but one I will make anyway :D. CX has 18 77Ws on order, but only 14 744s to replace. In theory, since all of the 744s have F, most of these new 77Ws should have F as well. Also, CX gets 4 extra planes versus the 744s currently in-house. EWR-HKG will require 2 physical planes to run on a daily basis. Therefore, 2 of these 4 extra 77Ws will have to be ordered with F in order for CX to switch EWR to 4-class service. I honestly don't see that happening. However, I know the 744s have been moved around to routes where, I guess it could be said, their higher fuel costs do less damage. Is CX filling the F on these routes with paid passengers? We will likely never truly find that out, those who say don't know, and those who know don't say ;).

The wild card is what exactly CX does with the A350-1000s. These should be a similar size (and configuration) to the 77Ws. How many of those get 3-class setups, and how many get 4-class setups? If EWR performs well enough, I'm sure CX will find a way to put a 4-class plane on the route. Obviously NYC has the demand, but would CX have to arrange to put an F lounge in EWR? Or make an agreement with another carrier with an F quality lounge? The SAS lounge that SQ uses gets poor reviews. I'll see for myself next week as I have SQ 21 less than a week away. I could try to nudge around before/on the flight to see if anyone would consider taking the CX EWR flight once the EWR-SIN SQ nonstop goes away. Don't be surprised if CX lines up the EWR flight with quick connections to/from a SIN flight each way.

And bagold I defer to you on what people flying paid F would want, if they would demand a proper F lounge above a biz lounge, or if making the trek over to JFK for those west of the Hudson is worth it to fly F. I'll assume for those east of the Hudson it is close enough to even between JFK and EWR to just go to JFK where there is more and current service and a proper F lounge currently. So, effectively, is there enough demand west of the Hudson for a few F seats above biz each way every day? I personally lean towards no but purely on my own instinct. I know there is tons of money out there around EWR, but at the same time EWR fortress hub holder CO wasn't a 3-class F carrier. I'm one of those AA award CX F people for better or worse (have one in about two weeks, F award on CX), what I want CX to do really has little bearing on whether it is a good idea for them or not. I want 4-class as bad as anyone, I figure F award availability should be fairly good on the route but that doesn't mean it works for CX :D.

If they demand a "proper F lounge", JFK would not be it. BA J lounge is better than its F lounge.

I guess every passenger has their own personal preferences. When I started flying premium in my early 20s I love the lounge experience. After 15 years now I just want to get a place to do my work. As long as there is a place to work I'm happy. Nice lounges are good when I have a long layover but I don't get to airports early to enjoy lounges. For me travel is about being as efficient as possible. Lounges allow me to get work done so it doesn't bother me if it is nice or not, just space to work with decent wifi. So if EWR has a poor lounge, it won't deter me from flying F out of EWR. But then again I'm fortunate to fly F on all my long haul flights (which is quite frequent) so after a while it loses the excitement. Most people will look forward to their F flights like I did before. Now I would rather be at home with my kids.

Almost all of JFK's lounges (not just BA/Oneworld) seem to be underwhelming. Just a note.

Yeah, it's a different perspective for sure. If I was traveling for business I'd be similar, the plane is most importantly a means of fastest conveyance. Perhaps this is why there is no F on EWR-HKG, CX must feel that the convenience for those west of the Hudson to now fly directly from EWR outweighs needing to provide F. After all, it couldn't be too difficult to pull one of the 4-class 77Ws from JFK and swing it over to EWR and put a 3-class 77W to JFK, as CX has 3 directly to JFK every day.

Are you using the term "proper F lounge" in reference the lounge on the left as one enters the BA Terraces lounge in T7? I haven't been there for six months or so, and would love to learn that it's no longer the small, dark, stuffy, windowless place that it has been for the past many years, but I question the use of the word "proper" to describe what for many years has been among the least appealing/attractive lounges anywhere in OneWorld's orbit. Unless CX's F passengers are finally being given access to BA's Concorde Lounge, I worry that this aspect of the discussion might be based on severely incorrect (albeit well-intentioned) assumptions.

Haven't been over there to T7 at JFK, I guess I meant "proper" in the most liberal sense, i.e. simply a separate lounge from the J lounge, actual quality or merits thereof to call it an F lounge notwithstanding. It certainly isn't a good example of it, the BA J and F lounges at JFK. I guess it can't be a big priority though, if CX has 4x daily and those theoretical 24 people max daily aren't complaining enough about a poor lounge :D. Of course the OW Emeralds can access it but I doubt our say means anything since we aren't quite paying the freight in the same way. Just meant to differentiate from EWR, where I doubt CX would have any separate F lounge, even if they started F class on the new service due to the single flight daily. While I personally have access some level of lounge on almost all flights no matter whom I'm flying, I would be much happier personally to arrive at the airport as close to departure as possible and go straight to the plane from check-in. The lounge is more insurance due to having to get to the airport earlier than I'd prefer due to security in the US, and customs and immigration internationally.

He's PPS Solitaire. What do you think? :rolleyes:

According to our wiki, both 77Gs and 77Hs have been ordered. More with F than not, in fact.

Yes the F lounge at JFK is a bit of a joke. It's quiet sometimes but other than I'd get to my flights as close to departure as possible.

As for EWR the lounge used for SQ flight the one time I used it was packed to the point I felt like I was in a UA lounge. Food was better 1 of the bathrooms was broken creating a long line. I think LH uses the same lounge for F/J there too.

If I'm indifferent about JFK and EWR and the lounges, is there any aircraft-related or crew reason to choose one or the other for ~0200 departures? I'm leaning towards EWR given there's no F so don't have to endure the disappointment of not sitting up front.