bealine

Yes! It's a never-ending spiral which started under Bob Ayling:

1. P155 the staff off!
2. P155 the passengers off!
3. Loss of passenger receipts because pax pi55ed off!
4. Offer low fares to get bums on seats!
5. Cut costs to cover loss of profit due to lower fares!
6. Back to Stage 1!

Unless we halt the cost cutting and start climbing the hill to being a cost-efficient, FULL-ON CUSTOMER SERVICE airline once more, British Airways as a worldwide carrier of repute probably won't last beyond another decade.

Having just watched "Excess in the City", I am filled with revulsion at the enormous gap between "haves" and "have nots" in British and American society!

sunrisegirl

Agreed though I think it will be sooner than a decade if they carry on like this. BUT, how do we get WW to listen? Or is he just there to run BA into the ground and then vanish?

BahrainLad

This is such a simplistic analysis of what has happened to the airline industry since 1996 and what is the state of that industry now, including BA, as not to be worth responding to.

BAAZ

bealine does have a point though, regarding full-service. The $64,000 question is whether there are enough pax to pay for it, compared to half-service airlines like bmi or no-service airlines like Ryanair. I honestly don't know; gut feel is yes certainly in J and F, probably some in Y but not sure if enough.

If pax are prepared to pay fuel surcharges and service charges that are higher than competitors', doesn't that suggest that demand is not as price-sensitive as perhaps FR's might be? Could even add a "full-service surcharge" and make it clear to pax what all those nice extras are costing them? Who knows, they may even get fed up with no-service airlines and pay the extra?

bernardd

I think you're already seeing that. Let me give you an example - I had to do LON-BCN a couple of times in the last year. The first time I booked at the the lsat minute, and without understanding I opted for a codeshare operated by IB. Service? Forgetaboutit! You pay for water in the back! The next time I made sure I took the BA operated flight, and I'll do the same again, even though I know it's going to cost a few bucks more. I'm sure I'm not alone in that - money's not that tight and there are ways of persuading even bean counters that a flights the right one based on time etc etc

NickB

True, but I am not 100% sure that 'sophisticated analysis' would adequately describe the following:

tom911

So you're saying a strike, if there is one, must start no later than Feb 12 or so? I have another flight out of Gatwick Feb 17, so still worried about that one. Looks like my flight this Friday is safe, though I had a list of options if BA couldn't accommodate me.

Although I see a lot of support among BA forum posters for staff, I don't see much concern about itineraries. Are any of you out flying the next month worried about getting stuck somewhere if they do strike? Is availability going to be that great on alternate carriers on routes that BA is a major player?

bernardd

Are they talking about just one strike? I thought the plan was 3 days at a time at weekly or fortnightly intervals? In the past, with train drivers etc etc they've usually gone 2 or 3 events before it's been settled. If that's the case you might be looking at some level of disruption into March.

BahrainLad

Ooooooooookay.

Care to outline the following for us?

The number of management-level grade personnel made redundant by WW?
The reduction in number of cabin crew made since 9/11?
The efficiency of the BA flight crew workforce benchmarked against their global competitors within CAA regulations?
The corresponding efficiency of their cabin crew colleagues?
The reason behind sickness rates of cabin crew being significantly higher than those from another British Airline which has a just as varied route network?
The cash amount paid to every member of cabin crew as 'compensation' for BA introducing a sickness policy that BASSA are now striking over (as, sheesh, BA are actually enforcing it: how unexpected!)
The reason why BA have 4 (!) 'managers' on board a 747?
The reason why that's one more than every other 747 operator (save JL) in the world (hint: it's obviously not 'service')?
The reason why some pre-1997 CSDs can clear £40k-£50k per annum for playing tapes, saying hello to Golds and filling in report forms?

Now...in the light of the above how can you continue to state that an assessment that BA's simple cost-cutting has gone so far and that the coming necessary restructuring of the workforce for increased efficiency is being resisted as being the product of a simplistic analysis?

fraisse10

This joins your call for "inflation-busting" (that'll be inflation-causing) pay rises and in-depth knowledge of the Board's consumption of champagne and salmon in the echelons of Dave-Spartian analysis.

22 days off work "sick" each year. Yeah, right. No skiving at all there. Poor little bunnies.

PUCCI GALORE

Sweetness...I wish that I earned £40 - 50k for playing tapes and saying Hello to First but then I was part of BCAL's dowery to BA! Like a bartered bride I just felt very fortunate to keep my job! I am not sure where you got those figures from but all I can say from my experience is that I would not be earning that much if I went back as a Sister on the NHS.

I do note the apostrophes over the managers and I can only give you again my spin on this. JonNYC will correct me I am sure if I push my luck!

We have Pursers in each cabin to keep the service in managed - so really I'm with you there. The Manager and the place the buck stops is with the CSD - and I strongly suspect that this role will go in the end and that I am one of the last of the Dinasaurettes (well I'm not that big, old thought I may be!).

The only reason that I can advance for any of this is that British Airways sells itself as a full service airline and we have always believed that to do that you have to have someone on board who can manage the crew, do the paperwork (believe me there is more of it than you can shake a stick at), take responsibility for the duty free cash and hand out these stupid questionnaires that no one ever reads (and if they ever do take even less notice of.). I can only compare us to AA that I know - rather than other US carriers that I know nothing about (I really feel so much safer talking about what I know) is that there is no one who has authority merely responsibility. If you are dissatisfied - tough. The Lead Flight Attendant may listen, may sympathise but has absolutely no authority to tell any crew member to do anything. The crew work unsupervised and unmanaged. That is fine with a good crew and lots of AA crew are first rate. However as with all carriers this is not always the case. The smaller the base the older the crew will be as they bid purely on seniority as they are only paid for hours flown. They get paid absolutely nothing until the aircraft is airbourne.

Now BA may decide that this is the way to go. I suspect that most European carriers have a CSD of some sort aboard - QANTAS does I believe. They may decide to opt to charge for drinks, headsets, and cut back of the service. At the end of the day we have lost one crew member per aircraft. This does not sound much but the service levels have remained the same. Now - that may not signify but if we have a low F load - one person goes up the back as soon as possible on my flights. I've even done it myself if we are really pushed on a short flight (I'm not supposed to and lot wouldn't and I am not blowing my own trumpet - but p***ed off passengers waiting interminably for drinks or hot beverages soon get ructious - and so would I. My Mantra has always been wheels up drinks out - I was always the Doubles Queen as I always gave two of everything as it kept everyone going.

So - I suppose that really is my explanantion rather than a justification. I suppose that at the end of the day anything can be sacrificed but my view is the same as that man who rescued Continental - you can take cheese off a Pizza but at some point people are going to stop buying the Pizza as it won't taste very much of anything. Sorry to sound simplistic and I am not defending merely offering my thoughts.

Smirnoff

What did happen to the Guess the Age game?

VC10 Boy

I'm pi$$ed off that my GP has had a 50% pay rise and I still can't get an appointment. Thank God my City firm has it's own doctor so I don't have to waste time away from my desk earning money that supports the taxes to pay for people on the dole who are workshy.

Pucci I love you, well not in a physical sense obviously. It's the spirit that you have which makes BA. I wish you would put your upcoming sectors on BA97 so we can see when you're onboard. I'd hate to think I was on your flight and didn't even know it. Then again, maybe I have been, as I've had some great flights on BA.

PS - It doesn't matter how old you are. Wouldn't mind knowing if you were arround on BOAC though

sunrisegirl

And guess is all it will be!

You know truly elegant ladies such as PUCCI and myself would never be so tacky as to reveal our real age.

OK then, maybe if it's going to get us special pressies or a sumptuous dining experience we might.


PS - PUCCI sweetie - all the best for your surgery. Hope all goes well and make sure HI is there to visit every day with something more than grapes.

Land-of-Miles

£40k to £50k was a fairly typical band for Senior CSD basic salaries when I left BA a few years ago. This was before the introducton of the new CSD contract which actually boosted salaries and other benefits. Over and above this figure substantial allowances could be earned with the most senior crew having first bite at the high allowance yielding routes. Total pay could amount to c.£80k per annum and this was not just the exceptional individuals, but equally was not a representative figure amongst the whole CSD population. This was 6 years ago, I am unaware of significant dilution in pay and benefits since then and I would tend to assume that more staff had drifted into higher pay bands over this time.

Staff transferred from other airlines (e.g. BCAL) and those on LGW contracts do seem to do worse than those with significant seniority on LHR mainline BA contracts. This is as much the fault of the unions as it is BA however, since the unions strongly resisted moves towards integrated contracts.

Japanese cabin crew (not sure if they are still a feature at BA) could earn quite staggering amounts, which when I last quoted them prompted derisive comments, so I won't mention the figures, suffice to say it was more than the better paid CSDs.

I am not saying that BA staff are overpaid, and for once I have some sympathy with a possible strike. I would have even more sympathy if I truly believed that a well paid workforce at BA produced better customer service, however it certainly seems to me that BA has a larger than average number of "timeservers" who go through the motions and do the minimum. Great customer service comes from those who have a real desire to serve customers. Sadly I do not think these people are large enough proportion of the BA workforce (no disrespect to those who obviously fall into this category who post here i.e. PUCCI, Bealine, Tits etc.), for an enhanced customer service business model to make commercial sense. I would have to add however that if the culture from the "top down" does into stress customer service excellence, it is rather unrealistic to expect the majority of staff to provide outstanding service purely of their own volition and in the face of competing, targets and goals.

All that said there is also no excuse for "service neutral" product destruction as seems to be the norm these days, e.g. there is no difference to the service required to serve a glass of Krug rather than Monopole, to adhere to normal baggage limits for premium passengers, to reserve seats in advance of flying etc. etc. The marginal cost savings of these changes just cannot offset the marginal revenue loss from customer defection IMHO. Such "great ideas" bare all the hallmarks of a certain boutique consultancy who supplied some very wacky ideas in the late 1990's as part of a wider plan to keep Bob Ayling's job