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BA Cabin Crew Vote 96% In Favour Of Strike Action

BA Cabin Crew Vote 96% In Favour Of Strike Action

Old Jan 17, 2007, 3:48 am
  #226  
 
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What happens if a strike does affect my travel?

We are booked on BA034 - LHR to CPT on Wednesday 31st and obviously nervous with the current BA/Union negotiations.

All of the hotel and safari bookings I have made in South Africa have very strict cancellation policies (100% of accommodation if cancelled within 7 days) and considering the costs involved, Im want to ensure I am covered.

Worst case scenario and there is a strike which affects my travel, do you know how BA or Amex Platinum card insurance would deal with the situation?

Ive MFUd from WT+ to CW in the event of disruption, changing my flight or booking me onto another carrier, do you think it is likely that I could end up being downgraded? Would I be classed differently as they are MFU seats?

Thanks in advance
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 4:07 am
  #227  
 
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Originally Posted by tom911
So you're saying a strike, if there is one, must start no later than Feb 12 or so? I have another flight out of Gatwick Feb 17, so still worried about that one. Looks like my flight this Friday is safe, though I had a list of options if BA couldn't accommodate me.

Although I see a lot of support among BA forum posters for staff, I don't see much concern about itineraries. Are any of you out flying the next month worried about getting stuck somewhere if they do strike? Is availability going to be that great on alternate carriers on routes that BA is a major player?
I don't know a great deal about labour law, but based on what's been posted here, a strike in respect of this ballot has to happen within 28 days and the unions have to give 7 days' notice of a strike.

There is also the possibility of a compromise being agreed, and then there being a new ballot of staff for industrial action based on the compromise agreement. Given that there had been significant developments on the issue of pensions in the week before the result of the ballot was announced, this could be a possibility. So this could run and run.

As for itineries, if there was a strike during half-term, then it would be a meltdown at LHR. Outside of half-term, January is a relatively quiet month for travel.
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 5:20 am
  #228  
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Originally Posted by VC10 Boy
I'm pi$$ed off that my GP has had a 50% pay rise and I still can't get an appointment. Thank God my City firm has it's own doctor so I don't have to waste time away from my desk earning money that supports the taxes to pay for people on the dole who are workshy.
I'm on the dole at the moment, and there aren't many workshy people around the job centre at all (they're all on incapacity these days...). It's almost impossible to have a 'good' living on the dole in the way it was, say, during the Thatcher years.

I'm trying not to regard your comments as a personal affront, and I won't say more in case I end up applying to / working with the firm you work at
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 5:27 am
  #229  
 
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Originally Posted by typical
I won't say more in case I end up applying to / working with the firm you work at
me work - no this is my place of employment, there is a difference.
And sorry, I intended no afront by my bland all encompassing statement. I hope you find something suitable soon.
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 5:28 am
  #230  
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Originally Posted by chrishow
We are booked on BA034 - LHR to CPT on Wednesday 31st and obviously nervous with the current BA/Union negotiations.

All of the hotel and safari bookings I have made in South Africa have very strict cancellation policies (100% of accommodation if cancelled within 7 days) and considering the costs involved, I’m want to ensure I am covered.

Worst case scenario and there is a strike which affects my travel, do you know how BA or Amex Platinum card insurance would deal with the situation?
I have the policy wording from AMEX Centurion, which I believe is the same as AMEX Platinum.

Under Cancelling, Postponing and Abandoning Your Trip:

This benefit applies to the costs for Your unused travel, accommodation, excursions and leisure activities that have been paid for or pre-booked and are non-refundable, or where You are charged a fee to change them.

You will be paid up to £12,500 if You cancel, postpone or abandon Your trip, due to:

etc etc etc

(g) A delay of more than 12 hours on the outward leg of Your trip as a result of industrial action, adverse weather, mechanical breakdown of public transport or a transportation accident which means You no longer want to go on Your trip.


Note "You" is the cardholder or additional cardholders on your account and kids only.

And note there is an exclusion if you knew of the circumstances before booking. So if you were to book now, you probably wouldn't be covered.
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 5:35 am
  #231  
 
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Originally Posted by HedgeFundFlyer
I'm surprised by the number of posters who automatically assume that the target operating margin is 'arbitrary'. There is a cost to doing business, the weighted average cost of capital, that takes into account the cost of the debt the company has to service as well as the cost of the equity that has been put into the company. One could open up philosophical discussions about calculating the cost of equity, but the main point is that there *is* a cost. If a company is earning less than its cost of capital, it's losing money over the long-term (some like to say "destroying capital"), and it's a dead certainty that this is the worst thing for everyone involved. It would be the same as taking out $100 in debt and putting it into a 5% bank account but paying 7% on the $100 -- you're losing money.

This should not be taken as a broad defense of the BA board and mgt. A 10% operating margin does not necessarily equate into a positive return on capital. This is a problem with setting easy-to-understand incentive bonuses, and any simplistic bonus scheme is susceptible to a "letter of the law, not spirit of the law" attempt to fulfill its terms.

But then that 10% operating margin goal might actually be a fairly reliable proxy for the company earning its cost of capital -- my suspicion is that the goal was arrived at after countless meetings with management consultants and investment bankers.

Of course this is neither here nor there in deciding whether to do IAH-DXB on BA in February.

Cheers.
Hedge Fund Flyer,

A good explanation and a noble effort, but I fear you are wasting your time trying to explain real world economic realities to several people on this board who still seem to be living in some 1970's socialist dream land where BA is a bloated flag carrier which is more of a source of British Nationalist pride rather an efficient air carrier. When one sees quotes like "sipping glasses of port in the boardroom", and comments about the disgusting nature of the City of London and the gap between haves and have nots its clear where these people are coming from. Too many people in Britain still seem to struggle with the whole concept of Capitalism and the Global Free Market and are clinging to very outdated feelings of affection for a failed Socialist system. They seem to view our corporate leaders as ignorant, fat uncaring devils looking to nothing more than feather their own nests whilst the noble gallant "workers" struggle on in horrible conditions sacrificing their own bodies and minds to serve the long suffering customers out of some sense of altruism. These people forget that the capital markets create jobs (surprise ! governments dont), create research and development and innovation and vastly increase the standard of living around the world.

Capitalist rant over
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 5:50 am
  #232  
 
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Willie Walsh criticises attitude of BASSA

There are some articles in the press today following comments made by Willie Walsh at a lunch for journalists that were critical the attitude of BASSA (comments highlighted in bold).

Originally Posted by Financial Times
BA chief attacks union after strike vote
By Kevin Done,Aerospace Correspondent

Published: January 17 2007 02:00 | Last updated: January 17 2007 02:00

Willie Walsh, British Airways chief executive, yesterday criticised Bassa, the cabin crew branch of the Transport and General Workers Union for being unwilling to discuss modernising the airline and updating working practices.

The airline was locked in talks last night with the T&G to try to head off industrial action by 11,000 of its 14,000 cabin crew represented by the union.

The cabin staff have voted overwhelmingly in favour of striking over grievances including sickness absence arrangements, pay grades and seniority levels of onboard staff, as well as proposed reductions in pensions benefits.

No strike dates have been set, however, and the union hopes the strength of the vote - in an 80 per cent turnout, 96.1 per cent or 8,132 favoured strike action - will help persuade the airline to pursue a negotiated settlement.

"Bassa will not engage in change. They have the attitude: 'What we have we hold'," Mr Walsh said yesterday. "We operate in a brutally competitive industry," added Mr Walsh, who is facing his biggest official labour challenge since taking over at the airline in autumn 2005. "We cannot accept anyone in the business saying we will not talk about change. This must come about through dialogue. The T&G must accept that it must sit down and negotiate. This industry is constantly changing. We must be able to talk."

The T&G said on Monday that the overwhelming vote by BA cabin crew to strike was in response to the airline's "management by imposition and the breakdown of respect and industrial relations".

Jack Dromey, T&G deputy general secretary, who was leading the talks last night with BA, said on Monday that the airline must "rebuild the trust of its cabin crew by negotiating rather than imposing change".

Bassa, the British Airline Stewards and Stewardesses Association, is the biggest single branch in the T&G with 11,000 members alone at British Airways.

The branch survived a break-away in 1989 and the formation of Cabin Crew 89, a rival cabin crew union organisation.

Bassa proved to be the much stronger organisation, while the smaller Cabin Crew 89 joined Amicus, which has its main membership strength at BA among engineering staff.

Bassa's hardline position has given the T&G a difficult challenge to come up with a common stance on issues affecting the whole of the BA workforce, most notably pensions. The union has still been unable to decide on a public recommendation in favour of the pensions deal reached by the negotiators of the airline's four unions on January 5.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2007
Originally Posted by Financial Times Editorial Comment
Fasten your seat belts
Published: January 17 2007 02:00 | Last updated: January 17 2007 02:00

Apart from the pre-flight safety routine, the one predictable bet in aviation is labour difficulties at airlines. At British Airways, the challenge is particularly acute because of the heavily-unionised workforce and an urgent corporate drive to reduce employee costs. Moreover, BA operates in a sector that is peculiarly vulnerable to industrial action: the profit lost in every flight cancelled can never be regained. Yet the recent vote by cabin crew in favour of taking strike action is in a different class from the unofficial disruptions that can turn Heathrow into a summer nightmare. Finding a way through will be a critical test of the management's ability to introduce the changes the company desperately needs.

The vote points to an industrial relations malaise at BA in two ways. In order to reach this point, the normal run of processes for settling staff issues must have failed, either because of heavy-handed management or longstanding local union intransigence or both. Certainly, the scale of support for action was overwhelming. Turnout in the postal ballot was 80 per cent, and the majority of those in favour of strike action was 96.1 per cent. Such disaffection among staff who represent the public face of the airline for passengers is a warning shot to management.

Of all the grievances cited by cabin crew, the one where there seems most scope for a sensible agreement is the arrangement for sickness absences. A new policy, introduced for cabin staff from October 2005 and accompanied by a one-off payment of 1,000, has been enforced so strictly that some staff have said they are afraid to call in sick even when they are ill. On the other hand, BA rightly argues that attendance levels were unacceptably low.

BA cannot, therefore, be reasonably asked to unpick the deal. To do so would threaten any working practice reforms already implemented. It would also undermine talks underway about changing working practices of ground staff when BA moves into Terminal 5 at Heathrow in 2008. The company is wise to hold out the promise to review how the sick leave policy has been interpreted. A draconian approach may bring higher savings in the short term, but will cost more in damaged morale and greater staff turnover.

The other elements in the dispute, from pensions reforms to pay grades, would also probably have benefited from more adroit handling, but only up to a point. The underlying need to plug the company's pensions deficit and to cut costs further is indisputable. The longer it takes to resolve them, the worse BA's position becomes.

Willie Walsh, who became BA chief executive in September 2005, arrived with a reputation from his time at Aer Lingus for being able to execute tough cost-cutting plans. At BA, he must combine the right to manage with the ability to convince all employees of the need for reform. Otherwise, the airline is entering turbulent times.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2007
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 5:51 am
  #233  
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Originally Posted by bernardd
AF? How did they get in there? That's not an airline, it's a social club for employees that happens to be conducted at 30,000 feet.

Well, it is the largest European airline by paasenger traffic and the world's largest by revenue. Can we get back on topic, which is BA and its strikes ?
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 6:02 am
  #234  
 
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Originally Posted by JOUY31
Well, it is the largest European airline by paasenger traffic and the world's largest by revenue. Can we get back on topic, which is BA and its strikes ?
I believe it was a joke, and it was relating to how to cope with the fallout from a strike -using the dreaded AF is an option. The strike for BA may lead to people having to fly with AF -so logically, all of the posts on AF are relevant if tied into BA. Maybe the post should have compared BA to AF, and concluded that AF is like a social club, whilst BA is....It was just a joke.
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 6:13 am
  #235  
 
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Originally Posted by ediYank
They seem to view our corporate leaders as ignorant, fat uncaring devils looking to nothing more than feather their own nests.....

You've met our Director of Flight Operations then?
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 6:52 am
  #236  
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Originally Posted by VC10 Boy
me work - no this is my place of employment, there is a difference.
And sorry, I intended no afront by my bland all encompassing statement. I hope you find something suitable soon.
Thank you sir - I appreciate your words.

I think it's very easy, especially in debates like this, to forget that we're all people (pax, CC, even the managers) who respond to incentives (following Adam Smith, anyway). It's interesting how people loyal to BA and irritated by the strike find such different targets for their anger. Even more interesting how those castigating the cabin crew for their behaviour seem to talk in the same breath of "economic realities" - if the dispute is that detatched from emotional content, what's the problem with silently switching airlines and walking away from BA?

I don't work for BA, but what worries me is WW is working towards a clear goal (10% margin, which may or may not be meaningful) with a clear process (slash costs while maintaining revenue) but without any clear or coherant vision of what BA will actually look like in five or ten years time. The same seems to apply to EI, for that matter - financially things improved, but what's the point of the airline now? What's the USP? Why would pax choose EI over another airline?

HedgeFundFlyer makes good points about BA's WACC. Maybe the 10% is meaningful: one report I remember reading had US airline WACCs calculated as around 8-11%. Certainly the BA share price is pricing in expected higher future dividends: higher expected ROE.

The airline industry is a damn hard market to do well in. BA is doing pretty well in it. Undoubtedly there's room for more 'efficiency'. However, at some point BA needs to communicate where all this is going (even if just internally). Does it want to turn into SouthWest? Is it aiming for a new niche, with cheapo Y packed in behind a mid-level J with a reasonable hard product? Does it believe hard product improvement drives more revenue than soft product improvement? What is it in business for? What need can it satisfy better than its competitors?

My problem with WW is we're seeing a lot of pain of the process, and being asked to trust in a vision nobody is seeing. I don't mind saying I'm still proud of BA, ediYank. I see companies as more than faceless and emotionless entities, or mere choices to be made in an efficient market. Emotions play a part in buying decisions. I like to believe that BA offers a superior service, performed in an understated but thoughtful manner, for which I have been willing to pay more in the past. It's harder and harder to justify that belief.

Sickness levels amongst BA CC does seem too high. The pensions issue is something that everyone is struggling with. I found the cheering when the strike vote was announced deeply uncomfortable. Nevertheless, the bigger picture is that relations have clearly got so bad that a strike is seen as a valid method of communication by a huge proportion. And for that, I blame the management. They could be getting the employees (and pax!) bought into the future of the airline. "10% margin" is NOT the vision of a successful company. At best, it's an outcome of such.

Originally Posted by ediYank
They seem to view our corporate leaders as ignorant, fat uncaring devils looking to nothing more than feather their own nests
Yearly average rises in boardroom pay over the last few years:
28% (compared to a total workforce average of under 4%, 2005), 16% (2004), 13% (2003), 23% (2002).
Gosh, clearly no nest-feathering going on there, then!

What you say about why people might work is true, in so far as it goes (although maybe you should check the size of the public sector before claiming that Governments don't create jobs) - however, I firmly believe societies need some semblance of equality and fairness. In a country with very low social mobility (even lower than the US, goodness) and an increasingly wealthy top stratum, it's not that surprising people object to the inequality.
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 6:59 am
  #237  
 
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Could BA not eliminate the upper deck Club pursur, or maybe put more lightly, merge the lower and upper positions into one? I know this may be sacrilege on this board; I know I would not willingly choose for it but if cuts need to be made somewhere isn't this an area that could see cuts without signifigant effects noticed by the passengers? Admittadly I do not really know the precise job of pursurs in the different cabins; I always imagined them as mini-CSDs for their particular domain.

I have always wondered, assuming the purser has more of a management-style role (i.e. coordinating their minions), why there were seperate pursers for upper and lower decks. Surely climbing a very small flight of stairs cannot be such an issue? If the CSD can do it...?
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 7:37 am
  #238  
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Originally Posted by typical
[Stonkingly good post.]
^ ^ ^
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 8:08 am
  #239  
 
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Typical - I must say, that was a fantastic post.
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 8:12 am
  #240  
 
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Originally Posted by ediYank
These people forget that the capital markets create jobs ..... create research and development and innovation and vastly increase the standard of living around the world.
Sorry, I'm off topic, but this isn't true. I've been there, I know the truth; real, original, off-the-wall innovation happens because of the sheer determination of individuals, and is usually hindered by the capital markers until they finally wake up to what's happened, at which point they tend to claim it as their own.

In reality, the markets seem to spend a lot of time funding me-too ideas and churning peoples investments to cream off a percent or two that they hope nobody will notice.

My rant is over....
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