Yup. J and F markets are completely different market segments.

My thinking is that with the downsizing of the F cabin, it will appeal to more F passengers segment who are looking for more privacy than before.

I travelled on a 777 14F in F a few days ago and then on the A350 CS on the way back. Honestly there is no comparison in terms of personal space and exclusivity of cabin. They are two very different hard products with an even bigger soft product difference. If flying on G-RAES or other refurbed 4-class 777s with CS I would not be wondering if I should downgrade from F!

They’ve actually done a very good job with the latest First soft product. They absolutely cannot get complacent and compromise it though as they always seem to do.

To me, CW does not appeal to me. I’m fortunate to travel almost exclusively in First on long haul and the biggest issue I have with CW is the sheer amount of seats. It is impossible to get the same experience and attentiveness.

By reducing F to a cabin of 8 seats, it appeals even more to me. It is even more private and exclusive.

And that's what BA is aiming by reducing the number of F seats by almost 40%: adding privacy and exclusivity to F cabin.

The aim is probably reducing the number of freeloaders on avios/GUF1&2/2-4-1/etc and focus more on the people who actually pay for F.

If BA was really after improving the product they would have kept the 2nd toilet.

I agree, but I had no issues booking a 2-4-1 to Narita in F earlier this year for April 2020. So lots of seats still available.

Also, freeloaders, is actually a little harsh. Still got to have the Avios and spend £10K on the Amex card, so not exactly freeloading.

interestingly, when try to find Avios seats to HKG I am more often than not offered CX flights which have just 8 seats in the cabin.

there is no rhyme or reason to Avios availability and the size of the cabin probably won’t make difference

CX has only 6 seats in F cabin not 8.

By April though only about 3 planes will have the reduced cabin s it will take a couple of years for the desired affect to be seen.
And BA are much more interested in those who will spend that £10k on a single flight in their now much more exclusive cabin.

My view is they’re interested in both types of passenger equally. The average frequent flyer who has enough Avios to redeem for First travel will be fairly loyal to BA in any case.

Wasn’t Cruz (or was it Walsh?) on the record a few years ago saying the F business model isn’t great but as a cabin it has to stay.

Yes, Club is the cabin that makes BA money, but First is deemed necessary on certain routes for competition.

Sorry if my freeloading comment offended, but ultimately it is about passengers who pay cash for their tickets, and those who pay significantly less by using avios/vouchers.

BA reducing the cabin size will focus their attention on those who pay cash. The freed up space can then be used to put more Club/WTP/WT seats in. Overall number of seats goes up, hence better bottom line (and “better” Club/WTP/WT redemption availability).

I wouldn’t hold my breath to see any of this additional revenue going towards improvements of the F hard product though. 1 toilet for 8 F seats is a pretty clear indication that BA isn’t going to throw money at F...

Swiss also has one toilet in F cabin for 8 passengers on the A333 and the A340 and it is still solid product and money making machine for LX.

You would have thought they would have got the new first cabin sorted ready for one refurb in one go?? We now seem to be creating a very fragmented product with new WT and WT+ with old club world at Gatwick, new club suite with old first and new WT and second generation WT+
current furst is not actually that private even though the space is very good
aircraft will have to be taken Out of service again ??