Capital Markets Day: new announcements
Nov 3, 2017, 8:16 pm
#107
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
I'd go JL if only they decided to compete on one stop itineraries! Sadly, much of the time, JL is only interested in flights to/from Japan! I know you have had bad experiences with them especially on regional routes, but given the right planes, JL is still my favourite J product (and favourite F food all round!) and I love Tokyo for a stopover!! 
Some really dopey cabin crew experiences as well (in J) including some on the latest batch of flights but in J or F they are usually pretty good, and they seem to have got rid of most of the bad J seats. As I can no longer travel Y for anything longer than 2 hours (genuine reasons, not 'frequent flyer reasons) I don't need to worry about the silly IFE box under the seat that renders my feet/leg room non-existent.
Their long haul J product is now good, although the variety of seats make me laugh - how can one airline have so many different long haul J seats!? Anyway, they are fine, except for the hot cabin and the 787 (which adds to the heat due to the electric shades). The food is pretty good too, although bluntly put CX F Kaiseki ex-TYO is better than JL F Japanese meal.
The trouble is, JL don't have F to Australia. They did for a short period over winters to SYD but I don't think they do this winter.
With OW BA is the only one that I am prepared to fly on with F to Australia that involves stopovers/transits that I am happy to do, although with QF being back via SIN that will potentially be good. Saying that, their J is out of the question (horrible bed! I'd rather take SQ and not recline much).
IFor once, since the day announcements mentioned the lounge improvements as part of the strategy, I'd really love it for BA to imitate QF on the adoption of juicers in its lounges in the morning complete with a large selection of fruit, vegetables, and herbs you can use for your own juice recipe!!!
Remember though that the price point for QF domestic J is so different from BA's CE that it does give them, I suspect, quite a bit of 'fat' to play with, as well as more incentive to keep the product good enough to justify the c. £1,200 return fare between SYD and MEL in J (this is the lowest fare, not the "full J/C").
I'm pretty sure however that the scrambled eggs at SYD/MEL domestic J lounges are made from liquid eggs, much like BA on board
Last edited by LTN Phobia; Nov 3, 2017 at 8:24 pm
Nov 4, 2017, 1:48 am
#108
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
I thought it was an interesting presentation which shows the huge amount of change going on across the 5 airlines in IAG.
Whether it is too much/too little is a good debate but it strikes me much of recent profit growth has been around driving efficiencies from the business. When that starts to taper off and real revenue growth is needed then we will see how IAG copes. Or perhaps WW will buy another airline then, rinse and repeat.
Whether it is too much/too little is a good debate but it strikes me much of recent profit growth has been around driving efficiencies from the business. When that starts to taper off and real revenue growth is needed then we will see how IAG copes. Or perhaps WW will buy another airline then, rinse and repeat.
Nov 4, 2017, 2:46 am
#109
Join Date: May 2005
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR/Lifetime Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 562
Nov 4, 2017, 2:50 am
#110
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,545
I thought it was an interesting presentation which shows the huge amount of change going on across the 5 airlines in IAG.
Whether it is too much/too little is a good debate but it strikes me much of recent profit growth has been around driving efficiencies from the business. When that starts to taper off and real revenue growth is needed then we will see how IAG copes. Or perhaps WW will buy another airline then, rinse and repeat.
Whether it is too much/too little is a good debate but it strikes me much of recent profit growth has been around driving efficiencies from the business. When that starts to taper off and real revenue growth is needed then we will see how IAG copes. Or perhaps WW will buy another airline then, rinse and repeat.
Nov 4, 2017, 2:54 am
#111
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,545
My experience with JL has actually been largely positive apart from the ridiculously hot cabin (which is pretty consistent).
Some really dopey cabin crew experiences as well (in J) including some on the latest batch of flights but in J or F they are usually pretty good, and they seem to have got rid of most of the bad J seats. As I can no longer travel Y for anything longer than 2 hours (genuine reasons, not 'frequent flyer reasons) I don't need to worry about the silly IFE box under the seat that renders my feet/leg room non-existent.
Their long haul J product is now good, although the variety of seats make me laugh - how can one airline have so many different long haul J seats!? Anyway, they are fine, except for the hot cabin and the 787 (which adds to the heat due to the electric shades). The food is pretty good too, although bluntly put CX F Kaiseki ex-TYO is better than JL F Japanese meal.
The trouble is, JL don't have F to Australia. They did for a short period over winters to SYD but I don't think they do this winter.
With OW BA is the only one that I am prepared to fly on with F to Australia that involves stopovers/transits that I am happy to do, although with QF being back via SIN that will potentially be good. Saying that, their J is out of the question (horrible bed! I'd rather take SQ and not recline much).
That would be a very welcome improvement at BA F lounges.
Remember though that the price point for QF domestic J is so different from BA's CE that it does give them, I suspect, quite a bit of 'fat' to play with, as well as more incentive to keep the product good enough to justify the c. £1,200 return fare between SYD and MEL in J (this is the lowest fare, not the "full J/C").
I'm pretty sure however that the scrambled eggs at SYD/MEL domestic J lounges are made from liquid eggs, much like BA on board
Some really dopey cabin crew experiences as well (in J) including some on the latest batch of flights but in J or F they are usually pretty good, and they seem to have got rid of most of the bad J seats. As I can no longer travel Y for anything longer than 2 hours (genuine reasons, not 'frequent flyer reasons) I don't need to worry about the silly IFE box under the seat that renders my feet/leg room non-existent.
Their long haul J product is now good, although the variety of seats make me laugh - how can one airline have so many different long haul J seats!? Anyway, they are fine, except for the hot cabin and the 787 (which adds to the heat due to the electric shades). The food is pretty good too, although bluntly put CX F Kaiseki ex-TYO is better than JL F Japanese meal.
The trouble is, JL don't have F to Australia. They did for a short period over winters to SYD but I don't think they do this winter.
With OW BA is the only one that I am prepared to fly on with F to Australia that involves stopovers/transits that I am happy to do, although with QF being back via SIN that will potentially be good. Saying that, their J is out of the question (horrible bed! I'd rather take SQ and not recline much).
That would be a very welcome improvement at BA F lounges.
Remember though that the price point for QF domestic J is so different from BA's CE that it does give them, I suspect, quite a bit of 'fat' to play with, as well as more incentive to keep the product good enough to justify the c. £1,200 return fare between SYD and MEL in J (this is the lowest fare, not the "full J/C").
I'm pretty sure however that the scrambled eggs at SYD/MEL domestic J lounges are made from liquid eggs, much like BA on board
Nov 4, 2017, 3:00 am
#112
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,545
My experience with JL has actually been largely positive apart from the ridiculously hot cabin (which is pretty consistent).
Some really dopey cabin crew experiences as well (in J) including some on the latest batch of flights but in J or F they are usually pretty good, and they seem to have got rid of most of the bad J seats. As I can no longer travel Y for anything longer than 2 hours (genuine reasons, not 'frequent flyer reasons) I don't need to worry about the silly IFE box under the seat that renders my feet/leg room non-existent.
Their long haul J product is now good, although the variety of seats make me laugh - how can one airline have so many different long haul J seats!? Anyway, they are fine, except for the hot cabin and the 787 (which adds to the heat due to the electric shades). The food is pretty good too, although bluntly put CX F Kaiseki ex-TYO is better than JL F Japanese meal.
The trouble is, JL don't have F to Australia. They did for a short period over winters to SYD but I don't think they do this winter.
With OW BA is the only one that I am prepared to fly on with F to Australia that involves stopovers/transits that I am happy to do, although with QF being back via SIN that will potentially be good. Saying that, their J is out of the question (horrible bed! I'd rather take SQ and not recline much).
That would be a very welcome improvement at BA F lounges.
Remember though that the price point for QF domestic J is so different from BA's CE that it does give them, I suspect, quite a bit of 'fat' to play with, as well as more incentive to keep the product good enough to justify the c. £1,200 return fare between SYD and MEL in J (this is the lowest fare, not the "full J/C").
I'm pretty sure however that the scrambled eggs at SYD/MEL domestic J lounges are made from liquid eggs, much like BA on board
Some really dopey cabin crew experiences as well (in J) including some on the latest batch of flights but in J or F they are usually pretty good, and they seem to have got rid of most of the bad J seats. As I can no longer travel Y for anything longer than 2 hours (genuine reasons, not 'frequent flyer reasons) I don't need to worry about the silly IFE box under the seat that renders my feet/leg room non-existent.
Their long haul J product is now good, although the variety of seats make me laugh - how can one airline have so many different long haul J seats!? Anyway, they are fine, except for the hot cabin and the 787 (which adds to the heat due to the electric shades). The food is pretty good too, although bluntly put CX F Kaiseki ex-TYO is better than JL F Japanese meal.
The trouble is, JL don't have F to Australia. They did for a short period over winters to SYD but I don't think they do this winter.
With OW BA is the only one that I am prepared to fly on with F to Australia that involves stopovers/transits that I am happy to do, although with QF being back via SIN that will potentially be good. Saying that, their J is out of the question (horrible bed! I'd rather take SQ and not recline much).
That would be a very welcome improvement at BA F lounges.
Remember though that the price point for QF domestic J is so different from BA's CE that it does give them, I suspect, quite a bit of 'fat' to play with, as well as more incentive to keep the product good enough to justify the c. £1,200 return fare between SYD and MEL in J (this is the lowest fare, not the "full J/C").
I'm pretty sure however that the scrambled eggs at SYD/MEL domestic J lounges are made from liquid eggs, much like BA on board
Yes the variety of seats is odd but several are very good and the latest are excellent despite offering comparable density to CW.
Foidwise i imagine you are referring to the Japanese meal on the specific HKG route or equivalent length? The Japanese F kaiseki and further meals on long haul, notably to LHR, CDG, etc are way nicer than the CX kaiseki and in my view arguably the best meals and drinks to be found in the commercial aviation industry.
Nov 4, 2017, 4:18 am
#113
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Brisbane
Programs: BAEC Blue/Bronze, Krisflyer, Qantas
Posts: 419
Cheeky, I can only find one bar chart in the entire presentation where the bar chart bars are not representative (for absolute values, not percent)...
...it's on p24, used to exaggerate the cuts at head office
...it's on p24, used to exaggerate the cuts at head office
Nov 4, 2017, 6:00 am
#115
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: BA - Blue > Bronze > Silver > Bronze > Blue
Posts: 6,812
Not sure I agree there. A couple of blankets and a pillow is lipstick on a pig. The catering improvements are welcome, but the food was pretty atrocious before. I still can't get an espresso in business class that Lufthansa or Qatar will happily serve me.
If they were genuine, meaningful improvements, then they would be lauded. But they're not as they are barely slowing the decline relative to other airlines.
If they were genuine, meaningful improvements, then they would be lauded. But they're not as they are barely slowing the decline relative to other airlines.
For many an espresso is just lipstick on a pig
Last edited by Cap'n Benj; Nov 4, 2017 at 6:16 am
Nov 4, 2017, 7:32 am
#116
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Brisbane
Programs: BAEC Blue/Bronze, Krisflyer, Qantas
Posts: 419
Quite excited to see the changes to Avios next year. Almost impossible to work out what they will be from the slides.
If dynamic pricing for Avios means peak/off-peak calendar per route/flight rather than global, plus additional 150% or 200% Avios ticket availability in addition to "Classic" availability then i'm in!
If dynamic pricing for Avios means peak/off-peak calendar per route/flight rather than global, plus additional 150% or 200% Avios ticket availability in addition to "Classic" availability then i'm in!
Nov 4, 2017, 8:05 am
#117
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
Foidwise i imagine you are referring to the Japanese meal on the specific HKG route or equivalent length? The Japanese F kaiseki and further meals on long haul, notably to LHR, CDG, etc are way nicer than the CX kaiseki and in my view arguably the best meals and drinks to be found in the commercial aviation industry.
Saying that, both are far better than BA's 'semi-Japanese' meals on HND/NRT in F. I can't say I'm impressed with it. Now that they seem to have improved the CW catering, they need to work on F catering IMO.
To be honest I’m not sure cost is the main issue here. BA arguably spends far more in alcohol than they would in buying raw fruit and veg, and they offer more hot food options at meal times in even the regular club lounges than qf in their domestic lounges where they prefer to invest in a toasted sandwich bar. I think it’s more about different concepts of desirable food and drink options in the uk vs Australia and I’ll admit I’d rather share Australia’s obsession with fresh pressed juices and excellent coffee.
)I suspect there would be a serious uproar if BA tried to withhold alcoholic drinks until the afternoon in their lounges but provided a juice station instead. I do not think I could cope with looking at this forum for 6 weeks if that ever happened.
Nov 4, 2017, 8:11 am
#118
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SFO, LON
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, Bonvoy Tit, Hilton Dia etc etc
Posts: 2,354
I've just remembered something. It could end up being a trade off between alcohol and freshly made juices. If I remember correctly, QF don't serve alcohol in their domestic lounges (definitely not at their domestic Qantas Club lounges) until the afternoon. I can't remember for sure in their Business lounge but I suspect that's the case too.
Nov 4, 2017, 8:37 am
#119
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,477
Quite excited to see the changes to Avios next year. Almost impossible to work out what they will be from the slides.
If dynamic pricing for Avios means peak/off-peak calendar per route/flight rather than global, plus additional 150% or 200% Avios ticket availability in addition to "Classic" availability then i'm in!
If dynamic pricing for Avios means peak/off-peak calendar per route/flight rather than global, plus additional 150% or 200% Avios ticket availability in addition to "Classic" availability then i'm in!
Again that is based on my own understanding of dynamic pricing. The approach taken by BA could be totally different.
Nov 4, 2017, 8:49 am
#120
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 494
Could the densification of 777 and 787 cabins reflect an intention to dedicate some of those aircraft to replacement of the remaining 767s? Remove CW (and F, if relevant) seats and replace them with WT or WT+ seats. The WT+ seating could be used for dedicated CE seats.