Raffles

Update: reader has now been found a seat in CW, showing the duty manager the screenshot showing seats for sale probably didn't hurt!

He got lucky as the HK flight today will be full of school kids heading home for half term, and thus BA's guess as to how many no-shows there will be was probably wrong.

HMPS

Is there any fine print in favour of BA? Otherwise as advised upstream one simple request for refund and off I go to the courts

Calchas

What did the Financial Ombudsman say when your reader complained about the nil value of the voucher packaged with the credit card as a missold inducement? It costs Amex £500 each time someone complains, even when the complaint is not upheld.

corporate-wage-slave

I had a look at this while in T5 earlier today, and we were somewhat mystified: there were seats available today (and in fact there were some empty seats in the end). As far as we could tell, no-one was getting downgraded, and indeed there were hoping to squeeze on a few staff standbys on at least one of the services. Now it's hardly unusual for seats to clear at the last moment, particularly on the HKG route (and out of HKG in particular) so my first thought when reading this was that someone had the wrong date or I was being given incorrect information - something did not add up. For today, we were firmly in the "normal for Norwich" territory, a tight flight, not many seats, but essentially revenue management called it right. I nevertheless appreciate that for the last person waiting at the gate - whether staff, whether 2-4-1, they are all human beings - it's highly unpleasant getting seated just before boarding, and yes I have been there myself. In the USA it's more common of course.

I will have another go at the "tickets still being sold" point, this happens all the time, and is fully in line with revenue managements' operations. Today two flights from AMS with HKG passengers were delayed by the weather, and some were rerouted on direct flights from AMS. Again, hardly unusual. Had someone bought a ticket today, even at top dollar, it does not guarantee they would have been seated, maybe it would have been a gate standby. Again I write from experience. Selling tickets and having no available seats at a given point is not incompatible.

Filthy Monkey

In such circumstances I'd be inclined to purchase the full fare J ticket, travel in CW and then take BA to court, based on the fact that I already had a ticket, which, as far as I'm concerned, I flew on and, therefore, expect a refund of the fully flexible J class fare. I can't see any judge disagreeing.

corporate-wage-slave

Indeed, but as you appreciate probably better than me, the usual revenue management outcome is that both tickets would clear. Won't happen all the time, but generally BA gets this one right.

Globaliser

But the point is that if RM expected the award ticket to clear in the booked cabin, then that passenger shouldn't have been invol DG in advance while RM was still offering space in the cabin for new sales. That is what seems to call for a rather explanation sophisticated explanation.

corporate-wage-slave

Seats can only be allocated if they known to be available, so what usually happens in this situation is that x no shows are expected, sales = x (ideally!) and somewhere between check-in and the gate the no show seats get allocated to the 2-4-1 and the hypothetical new revenue sale. The downgrade bit indeed does not make sense, at at about 18:00 hrs, we couldn't work it out.

simons1

Surely the phrases "no EU261 due" and "BA will pay up when forced to by a court" are entirely different things.

If "no EU261 due" is incorrect why do you keep repeating it?

Tafflyer

I assume when saying “no EU261 due”, Raffles is referring to the public BA stance. I really think it’s time this got tested in court to put and end to this nonsense one way or another. If BA lose, they can stop downgrading 2-4-1’s and if they win, we can all cancel our BA Amex cards.

bernardh

The problem with that is - as I know from personal experience - BA will fold at the last minute and pay the MCOL claim in full rather than allow the court to examine the case.

It is in BA’s interest to make it as difficult as possible to gain recompense for this kind of bad treatment. It knows that most people (probably not hereabouts and definitely not me) will give up in disgust before going to court or arbitration and it does so without apparently caring a fig for the self-inflicted reputational damage.

simons1

It may be perception but I'm afraid by repeating it all the time readers may assume it to be true and not follow up on possible claims. Exactly what BA would like to see.

Although in the most recent 'case' let's face it it was a load of bluster and air as the traveller wasn't actually downgraded.

HilFly

That's not how I read it.

It seems to me that the passenger ws downgraded at check in, and was given a seat in CW later, after he had remonstrated with BA staff.

simons1

Like the vast majority of situations the overbooking cleared and the passenger travelled in the booked cabin.

As CWS pointed out there were empty seats so I doubt any "remonstration" was required.

corporate-wage-slave

That is indeed the implication given above. What I think actually happened was that at check-in there was no seat available in CW, instead he was given a boarding pass in WTP - which allowed him to go airside - but told that FMU would continue to monitor the situation and endeavour to get him into CW before departure. And that is what appears to have happened, since there were a slightly higher than normal number of no-shows - for once the poor weather yesterday assisting the situation.

Status passengers have the seats allocated to them retained until the last moment. So if 2 hours before departure they have not checked in online then their seats are still not available for reallocation to anyone else. At one hour before departure then if they haven't checked in online or in person then clearly that seat becomes available, then there are all those whose connections failed or otherwise didn't pass conformance. So it's not that unusual for people to only get seats allocated some 45 minutes before departure, or even later if put on Standby. In the case in question I suspect they were given a CW boarding pass sooner than that, I presume as a result of missed connections making it impossible for some other CW passengers to make the flight (and thus Reaccom had offloaded them automatically).