Another 241 downgrade story - from F - with no [EC261] compo
#1
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Another 241 downgrade story - from F - with no [EC261] compo
I had an email last night from a HFP reader (not a reader here) who had tried to check in for the day flight to New York today in F.
He had checked in, his companion (who was the companion on a 241 voucher) could not.
I told him he was likely to downgraded with no EU261.
Turns out I was correct:
* Reader's companion has been downgraded from First due to "overselling" (which I am constantly told on here cannot happen in F)
* Companion will not be allowed any EU261 compensation because the 241 has no monetary value and he is on the 'companion' part of it, so his ticket was not paid for
* Companion has been given a seat in CW and a £500 gift card, main BAPP cardholder remains in F
To be fair, the reader has taken the same view that I would probably take if this happened to me and my wife (ie I can live without her for 6 hours and £500 will cover a nice shopping spree in NY and is worth more than EU261 anyway) .... but I wanted to flag it as another datapoint in the "no, FLY is not deliberately downgrading 241 tickets first, honest guv" debate.
He had checked in, his companion (who was the companion on a 241 voucher) could not.
I told him he was likely to downgraded with no EU261.
Turns out I was correct:
* Reader's companion has been downgraded from First due to "overselling" (which I am constantly told on here cannot happen in F)
* Companion will not be allowed any EU261 compensation because the 241 has no monetary value and he is on the 'companion' part of it, so his ticket was not paid for
* Companion has been given a seat in CW and a £500 gift card, main BAPP cardholder remains in F
To be fair, the reader has taken the same view that I would probably take if this happened to me and my wife (ie I can live without her for 6 hours and £500 will cover a nice shopping spree in NY and is worth more than EU261 anyway) .... but I wanted to flag it as another datapoint in the "no, FLY is not deliberately downgrading 241 tickets first, honest guv" debate.
#2
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I had an email last night from a HFP reader (not a reader here) who had tried to check in for the day flight to New York today in F.
He had checked in, his companion (who was the companion on a 241 voucher) could not.
I told him he was likely to downgraded with no EU261.
Turns out I was correct:
* Reader's companion has been downgraded from First due to "overselling" (which I am constantly told on here cannot happen in F)
* Companion was told that he would not be allowed any EU261 compensation because the 241 has no monetary value and he is on the 'companion' part of it, so his ticket was not paid for
* Companion has been given a seat in CW and a £500 gift card
To be fair, the reader has taken the same view that I would probably take if this happened to me and my wife (ie I can live without her for 6 hours and £500 will cover a nice shopping spree in NY) .... but I wanted to flag it as another datapoint in the "no, FLY is not deliberately downgrading 241 tickets first, honest guv" debate.
He had checked in, his companion (who was the companion on a 241 voucher) could not.
I told him he was likely to downgraded with no EU261.
Turns out I was correct:
* Reader's companion has been downgraded from First due to "overselling" (which I am constantly told on here cannot happen in F)
* Companion was told that he would not be allowed any EU261 compensation because the 241 has no monetary value and he is on the 'companion' part of it, so his ticket was not paid for
* Companion has been given a seat in CW and a £500 gift card
To be fair, the reader has taken the same view that I would probably take if this happened to me and my wife (ie I can live without her for 6 hours and £500 will cover a nice shopping spree in NY) .... but I wanted to flag it as another datapoint in the "no, FLY is not deliberately downgrading 241 tickets first, honest guv" debate.
To prove that FLY systematically targets companion vouchers you either need to find someone in the know who confirms that is exactly what happens - my understanding is that someone in the know has actually said the opposite, or you need to show that downgrades are happening statistically more to companion vouchers than to any other subset of passenger.
I would agree of course that the advice the passenger was given about EC 261 by the agent was wrong.
#3
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http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...th-august.html
#4
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This does not seem to a rogue agent, but BA policy. The ticket cost nothing, so 75% of nothing is nothing. I would have thought they'd still be due 75% of the taxes though?
#5
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To prove that FLY systematically targets companion vouchers you either need to find someone in the know who confirms that is exactly what happens - my understanding is that someone in the know has actually said the opposite, or you need to show that downgrades are happening statistically more to companion vouchers than to any other subset of passenger.
#6
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I must admit I am not an expert on EC261 so I defer to the advice in the EC261 thread on this point in terms of exactly what would be due. Whilst it could be argued the voucher per se is "free", the avios cost and the taxes/fees/charges are not as you noted.
#7
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#9
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I had an email last night from a HFP reader (not a reader here) who had tried to check in for the day flight to New York today in F.
He had checked in, his companion (who was the companion on a 241 voucher) could not.
I told him he was likely to downgraded with no EU261.
Turns out I was correct:
* Reader's companion has been downgraded from First due to "overselling" (which I am constantly told on here cannot happen in F)
* Companion will not be allowed any EU261 compensation because the 241 has no monetary value and he is on the 'companion' part of it, so his ticket was not paid for
* Companion has been given a seat in CW and a £500 gift card, main BAPP cardholder remains in F
To be fair, the reader has taken the same view that I would probably take if this happened to me and my wife (ie I can live without her for 6 hours and £500 will cover a nice shopping spree in NY and is worth more than EU261 anyway) .... but I wanted to flag it as another datapoint in the "no, FLY is not deliberately downgrading 241 tickets first, honest guv" debate.
He had checked in, his companion (who was the companion on a 241 voucher) could not.
I told him he was likely to downgraded with no EU261.
Turns out I was correct:
* Reader's companion has been downgraded from First due to "overselling" (which I am constantly told on here cannot happen in F)
* Companion will not be allowed any EU261 compensation because the 241 has no monetary value and he is on the 'companion' part of it, so his ticket was not paid for
* Companion has been given a seat in CW and a £500 gift card, main BAPP cardholder remains in F
To be fair, the reader has taken the same view that I would probably take if this happened to me and my wife (ie I can live without her for 6 hours and £500 will cover a nice shopping spree in NY and is worth more than EU261 anyway) .... but I wanted to flag it as another datapoint in the "no, FLY is not deliberately downgrading 241 tickets first, honest guv" debate.
As for EU261, perhaps suggest to your reader that they take legal advice on their options.
#10
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You are making so many assumptions here. Do you get a report on all downgrades across the network every day? It is pointless quoting probability based on one cabin on one flight.
#11
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#12
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The title "with no compo" is a bit misleading, they did get a £500 voucher., did you mean no E261?
Surely of all the routes JFK is the best bet for keeping your F seat with so many flights going out. Do you know if they were offered 2 F seats on another flight instead?
It does make me worry though, and certainly puts less value on the 241s.
Surely of all the routes JFK is the best bet for keeping your F seat with so many flights going out. Do you know if they were offered 2 F seats on another flight instead?
It does make me worry though, and certainly puts less value on the 241s.
#13
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BA oversells First by one seat up to a few days before departure, which, to pile on a bit, has often been mentioned here in FT by yours truly and many others. Normally this works out fine, once in a while it doesn't. I'm surprised there wasn't a First seat to JFK on another flight, but I guess this being one of BA's busiest flying days of the year took away that opportunity.
There has been some recent movement on the "2-4-1 has no value" issue, which certainly did not show BA at its best. I'm now reasonably confident that a MCOL process will find in the passenger's favour.
#14