Window shades night flights (sun up)

Old Jun 1, 17, 3:52 pm
  #91  
 
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Originally Posted by nallison View Post
Well OK, as someone predicted, there will be no agreement on this. I though I might lend a slightly different perspective as someone who likes the window seat but understand that others comfort takes priority over mine.

Clearly others disagree so there's not much more to say, everyone's position is clear. As always everyone has their own definition of what is and isn't DYKWIA which incredibly doesn't include things they might do themselves. Only the things other people do that annoy them.

I've flown enough to know it's blindingly (pun intended) obvious what is the best solution for the majority, hence why I go along with it despite it not suiting me personally. So those refusing to do so will have to justify that to themselves, as anyone being anti-social always finds all sort of ways to do so. I personally couldn't live with the shame as someone else mentioned why they just accidentally left theirs open.
A balanced perspective is always useful, thanks.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 4:00 pm
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
Same here, and I reopen it when I back in my seat.
Exactly right. So would I. If you don't like it, book a window seat next time.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 4:14 pm
  #93  
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Originally Posted by nallison View Post
I haven't been dismissive, just asked why some feel it's OK to refuse crew instructions and ignore what everyone else on the plane manages to do without a fuss? I am intrigued by those who in other threads love to judge DYKWIA behaviour and people ignoring crew or behaving with no regard for others, who suddenly on this specific issue think its all OK.

You keep repeating a point about eyeshades which obviously doesn't work as it doesn't happen in the real world, where the fact is airlines have generally decided passengers prefer to have the shades down. You will have to explain why you think you know better and airlines are all doing this for no reason and it is perfectly OK to ignore this polite request? Several people have explained in this thread, perhaps more politely than I, the issue with light flooding in and that they will lower their shade out of courtesy to the majority who seem to want to sleep. (I believe 4/5 was the number one regular flyer quoted).

Yes I know many people that find eyeshades uncomfortable. I have no idea if its the majority. I know no-one in economy is given eyeshades, a point that for some reason you left out. The fact is keeping one window open inconveniences a lot of people, for one person's benefit. So you are asked to close the shade. You may not agree because you like the window but it is well established what the majority preference is and that you won't be too popular if you don't go along with it when everyone else on the plane manages to close their shade. Repeating the same point about eyeshades until eternity won't change that.
Can you point out anywhere where somebody on here has said they would refuse a direct instruction from the cabin crew? I think you misunderstand the definition of DYKWIA which is clear by the way you infer that those who do not wish to lower the blind must be.

So you are saying airlines know what customers want and prefer? In which case why do I not find that I can have a jacuzzi at 30,000 feet? That is what I would like. What airlines like, and perhaps more importantly, what cabin crew like may be very different things. CC would like customers to sleep and no doubt having a darker plane encourages this. You may want to ask why this is? And if airlines wanted to insist that the blinds have to be closed why provide eyeshades in the F cabin in the first place? Doesn't make much sense to provide something that isn't needed.

As for explaining issues of light polution, there are probably an equal number of people identifying the simple solution to this that means that those who want to see during hours of daylight are able to do so whilst allowing those who want to sleep sleep.

I have not mentioned economy and indeed the OP didn't either so have not commented on this. Please focus on the issue in hand, or do you wish to expand on this as clearly you don't appear to have an answer that does not involve insulting others by referring to them as selfish, arrogant and, perhaps importantly on a FF forum, DYKWIA, simply because they don't agree with your view.

Last edited by madfish; Jun 1, 17 at 4:19 pm
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Old Jun 1, 17, 4:17 pm
  #94  
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Originally Posted by nallison View Post
I've flown enough to know....
A case of DYKWIA or should that be DYKHMIF?
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Old Jun 1, 17, 4:21 pm
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I've always tended to think this comes under common sense and awareness of the situation, which makes me wonder how it's such a subject for discussion...

In my view, if it's an obvious day flight (like LHR>LAX outbound), then having the blind up is broadly reasonable, it's reasonable for people wanting to sleep on that flight to use an eye shade as it's going to be a minority pursuit but, over the mid Atlantic with nothing to see, if somebody asked politely if I'd mind closing it for a while, I would do so because why not?

Conversely, on the return LAX>LHR, sleeping for 7-8 hours is the majority pursuit and I'd not dream of insisting on keeping the blind open for half the flight because I couldn't sleep or needed to get some work done and fancied it, I'd be embarrassed by the rudeness of it.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 4:23 pm
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Originally Posted by nrr View Post
I always choose window seats and keep the shades open:
(1)planes are equivalent to sardine cans, with the shade open the inside and outside merge, making the plane seem more spacious.
(2)if we are over areas (mainly land) where there are "landmarks", I find it fascinating to identify them.
(3)but (especially) for the last 30 minutes of a flt, seeing what the plane is DOING is essential. I've been on flts where pax in window seats were asked to raise them in those 30 minutes.
(4)I was once flying from LAS VEGAS to DFW, when I got to my window seat, I noticed EVERY shade was in the closed position--EXCEPT mine, it was open, I guess they knew my preferences.
Point 1 is debatable. I find the best way to make the interior of a plane more spacious is not to book an economy seat. Business or First class is the way to go. YMMV.

Point 2-some people open their shades even though there is nothing to see but ocean or clouds. Not a lot of landmarks in the middle of the Atlantic.

Point 3-some further readng her:
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/...-a6899681.html
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Old Jun 1, 17, 4:38 pm
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Originally Posted by madfish View Post
Can you point out anywhere where somebody on here has said they would refuse a direct instruction from the cabin crew? I think you misunderstand the definition of DYKWIA which is clear by the way you infer that those who do not wish to lower the blind must be.

So you are saying airlines know what customers want and prefer? In which case why do I not find that I can have a jacuzzi at 30,000 feet? That is what I would like. What airlines like, and perhaps more importantly, what cabin crew like may be very different things. CC would like customers to sleep and no doubt having a darker plane encourages this. You may want to ask why this is? And if airlines wanted to insist that the blinds have to be closed why provide eyeshades in the F cabin in the first place? Doesn't make much sense to provide something that isn't needed.

As for explaining issues of light polution, there are probably an equal number of people identifying the simple solution to this that means that those who want to see during hours of daylight are able to do so whilst allowing hosevtgetcwant to sleep sleep.

I have not mentioned economy and indeed the OP didn't either so have not commented on this. Please focus on the issue in hand, or do you wish to expand on this as clearly you don't appear to have an answer that does not involve insulting others by referring to them as selfish, arrogant and, perhaps importantly on a FF forum, DYKWIA, simply because they don't agree with your view.
The Ops question was 'What is the general consensus of having your window blind raised on an overnight flight so I'd say I've focussed fairly well on the issue at hand.

Well done on getting a jacuzzi into the discusison, and someone said my view wasn't balanced! I think the difference between airlines making a cost-free request that passengers close a blind and installing jacuzzi's on the fleet is fairly obvious. It's a fairly innocuous request to make the best of the situation as it is for the majority of passenegers, I don't think that translates as 'now we have to give everyone a pony'.

I'm using these terms because I see them used on this forum a lot by people referring to others anti-social behaviour, and I've seen some rather stern posts before about proper behavour from some of those who are now upset about being called out.

I'm afraid you don't get to pick and choose what is anti-social according to your own preferences, it's established by society and the norms of behaviour on planes. It wasn't me that decided shades should generally be down, I just happen to understand the reason for it and reluctantly agree. Which means, as I actually prefer the window but still go along with this because it is so obvious that it's pretty inconsiderate, that I find it very weak that people are claiming there is any ambiguity about this. There isn't, everyone knows and that's why you'll generally see all the shades down, particularly on flights heading east.

I do have an answer, I've explained several times, you just dont like it. The answer is that it's considered inconsiderate by the majority of people. Just like speaking on the phone too loudly in the lounge, or letting your kids run riot, or being overly demanding of crew. If you won't go along with what the majority of people consider appropriate in a social situation, and make a principle of doing so, it's yourself to have to ask quesitons of, not others, and don't be surprised if people bring up the dreaded DYKWIA, even if you think that only applies to 'other people'.

Last edited by nallison; Jun 1, 17 at 4:51 pm
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Old Jun 1, 17, 4:43 pm
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Originally Posted by apollo00 View Post
I've always tended to think this comes under common sense and awareness of the situation, which makes me wonder how it's such a subject for discussion...

In my view, if it's an obvious day flight (like LHR>LAX outbound), then having the blind up is broadly reasonable, it's reasonable for people wanting to sleep on that flight to use an eye shade as it's going to be a minority pursuit but, over the mid Atlantic with nothing to see, if somebody asked politely if I'd mind closing it for a while, I would do so because why not?

Conversely, on the return LAX>LHR, sleeping for 7-8 hours is the majority pursuit and I'd not dream of insisting on keeping the blind open for half the flight because I couldn't sleep or needed to get some work done and fancied it, I'd be embarrassed by the rudeness of it.
Exactly, it's basic common sense, which is the point I've tried to make several times and why I specifically mentioned eastbound flights. Some either don't seem to have/want to have awareness though so create ambiguity about something everyone is just doing without a second thought.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 5:02 pm
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The crews could just offer half an hour cockpit time for closing the shades and they would have 2 happy customers ;-)
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Old Jun 1, 17, 5:19 pm
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
Out of interest, which airlines do this in the front cabins?
Royal Jordanian on a recent Amman to Heathrow flight. Dimmed the blinds in business when departing at noon Jordan time (10am uk time) and landing at 1530 uk time. When somebody in a window seat asked for some light, they were given control of their blinds.

Qatar have done the same where it was daytime at origin and destination. Not sure if they would have relinquished control (I was in a middle seat).

In terms of being selfish (not referring to the quoted post), perhaps it is selfish to leave the window open when it's daylight outside. But I think important to make a distinction between somebody who only thinks about themselves (ie windows open when it suits them, and closed when it suits them) and somebody who is simply consistent (ie believes window seat can have control, which sometimes will suit them, and sometimes it won't but then they're willing to wear eye masks). To my mind the second person is not remotely DYKWIA. Ditto for the person who always closes the window, even when they'd rather have daylight.

Also seems to me that the specifics of flight directions, timings, and amount of daylight hours make a difference which makes it a bit harder to talk about in broad terms.

Last edited by woglet86; Jun 1, 17 at 5:25 pm
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Old Jun 1, 17, 5:45 pm
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Choose eye shades or choose window. Next.....
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Old Jun 1, 17, 5:59 pm
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Originally Posted by Bradhattan View Post
Choose eye shades or choose window. Next.....
What if the streaming sunlight prevents pax from watching movies on their screen? What should they do? Wear eye shades ?

Next?
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Old Jun 1, 17, 6:38 pm
  #103  
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Yet another heated debate.

Thank goodness I fly as little as possible.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 8:34 pm
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It is a tricky situation, and if requested of me to lower the shade, I am usually agreeable. I do understand that sometimes it is hard for people to sleep or watch movies due to the sun. I did however have an incident recently flying from PHL-MUC 1800 departure, still sunlight, where the passenger seated in the window seat in front of me, turned around and closed my shade prior to even reaching cruising altitude. The person seated next to me looked at me and was dumbfounded by the situation. That was a new one to either of us.
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Old Jun 1, 17, 8:46 pm
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I use common sense on it. If it's an Easterly night flight I'll close the shades so the early sunrise doesn't wake everyone. Otherwise I keep it open. If its a Westerly night flight it stays dark the whole way. If it's a daytime departure flight then I'll keep the shades open regardless. There are few better views than from an aircraft window
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