The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Oct 11, 2017, 3:12 pm
#1531
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Programs: ►QFWP/LTG►VA WP►HyattExpl.►HiltonGold►ALL Silver
Posts: 21,995
...
The last email i had from BA was:
I’ve reviewed your claim and on the day you were due to travel our crew needed to rest due the change of aircraft type. Our crew can only fly a certain number of hours and this is primarily for your safety but also so we meet legal requirements. I’m afraid this meant we had no option but to delay your flight BA0188.
We always want to maintain as stable an operation as possible. This isn’t only because of the disruption to our customers, but also because of how difficult it is to recover from a delayed flight.
Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 states that a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to a long delay. This means you’re not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your delayed flight.
...
The last email i had from BA was:
I’ve reviewed your claim and on the day you were due to travel our crew needed to rest due the change of aircraft type. Our crew can only fly a certain number of hours and this is primarily for your safety but also so we meet legal requirements. I’m afraid this meant we had no option but to delay your flight BA0188.
We always want to maintain as stable an operation as possible. This isn’t only because of the disruption to our customers, but also because of how difficult it is to recover from a delayed flight.
Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 states that a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to a long delay. This means you’re not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your delayed flight.
...
Oct 12, 2017, 12:19 am
#1533
Join Date: Oct 2017
Programs: BA CCR/GGL
Posts: 54
BA 294 ORD - LHR Oct 9th Cancelled
First post and wanted to see how to proceed regarding the EC261. BA 294 from ORD to LHR on Monday October 9th 2017 was cancelled due to engine 2 startup failure. The cancelled flight does not show up on flightaware or on BaSource. The aircraft registration is G-CIVU.
What Happened :
1. BA 294 left the gate on time but during engine startup the no 2 engine fails to startup.
2. Pulled back to gate after 45 minutes and the BA engineers try to fix the problem and are unable to.
3. Flight was not cancelled but rather delayed for a day till they get the part from JFK.
4. I was in F on BA 294 and was rebooked into BA 296 but that would have caused my connection to Bombay BA 139 to be missed. Also my bags were not going to rerouted for another two days since they did not have time to remove the bags from BA 294 and place them on BA 296. As a result I had to be rebooked onto BA 199 as well.
5. F seats were not available on either BA 296 or BA 199. Chicago airport staff and GGL line would not confirm me on BA 199 and requested me to take care of it once I reached London.
6. Given I was not going to travel without my bags and no confirmed tickets in the same class of service on BA 296 and BA 199 I decided to ask them to move to the BA 294 and BA 139 the next day on October 10th.
7. Left the airport close to 10:30pm about to 5 hours after scheduled departure.
8. Ended up taking an Uber to stay with family rather than using the hotel/food accommodations provided.
9. Finally on October 10th left Chicago and got to Bombay via BA 194 and BA 139 on F without any further issues.
10. Found out from the BA staff at Chicago that G-CIVU was still unable to fly back and was stuck in Chicago as of October 10th.
EC 261 Case :
1. Since the next best routing due to the engine issue on BA 294 would have made me to arrive at my destination close to 12 hours later than my original ticket. I feel I have a case to file for the 600 Euro delay claim. Let me know if there is something I am missing here.
What Happened :
1. BA 294 left the gate on time but during engine startup the no 2 engine fails to startup.
2. Pulled back to gate after 45 minutes and the BA engineers try to fix the problem and are unable to.
3. Flight was not cancelled but rather delayed for a day till they get the part from JFK.
4. I was in F on BA 294 and was rebooked into BA 296 but that would have caused my connection to Bombay BA 139 to be missed. Also my bags were not going to rerouted for another two days since they did not have time to remove the bags from BA 294 and place them on BA 296. As a result I had to be rebooked onto BA 199 as well.
5. F seats were not available on either BA 296 or BA 199. Chicago airport staff and GGL line would not confirm me on BA 199 and requested me to take care of it once I reached London.
6. Given I was not going to travel without my bags and no confirmed tickets in the same class of service on BA 296 and BA 199 I decided to ask them to move to the BA 294 and BA 139 the next day on October 10th.
7. Left the airport close to 10:30pm about to 5 hours after scheduled departure.
8. Ended up taking an Uber to stay with family rather than using the hotel/food accommodations provided.
9. Finally on October 10th left Chicago and got to Bombay via BA 194 and BA 139 on F without any further issues.
10. Found out from the BA staff at Chicago that G-CIVU was still unable to fly back and was stuck in Chicago as of October 10th.
EC 261 Case :
1. Since the next best routing due to the engine issue on BA 294 would have made me to arrive at my destination close to 12 hours later than my original ticket. I feel I have a case to file for the 600 Euro delay claim. Let me know if there is something I am missing here.
Oct 12, 2017, 1:10 am
#1534
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: BOS
Programs: BA Silver, Mucci
Posts: 5,289
Hello,
Im in an email exchange with BA at the moment, and im hoping i can ask for some help on this. if someone could give me some advice on what my response should be on the below?
I was on the BA0188, 13th Sep. which was delayed by 3 hours and 58 mins.
EWR to LHR.
I believe this means i should be entitled to 300 euro?
The last email i had from BA was:
I’ve reviewed your claim and on the day you were due to travel our crew needed to rest due the change of aircraft type. Our crew can only fly a certain number of hours and this is primarily for your safety but also so we meet legal requirements. I’m afraid this meant we had no option but to delay your flight BA0188.
We always want to maintain as stable an operation as possible. This isn’t only because of the disruption to our customers, but also because of how difficult it is to recover from a delayed flight.
Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 states that a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to a long delay. This means you’re not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your delayed flight.
I realise this will be disappointing for you but I hope this information will help you to understand our decision.
Best regards
Im in an email exchange with BA at the moment, and im hoping i can ask for some help on this. if someone could give me some advice on what my response should be on the below?
I was on the BA0188, 13th Sep. which was delayed by 3 hours and 58 mins.
EWR to LHR.
I believe this means i should be entitled to 300 euro?
The last email i had from BA was:
I’ve reviewed your claim and on the day you were due to travel our crew needed to rest due the change of aircraft type. Our crew can only fly a certain number of hours and this is primarily for your safety but also so we meet legal requirements. I’m afraid this meant we had no option but to delay your flight BA0188.
We always want to maintain as stable an operation as possible. This isn’t only because of the disruption to our customers, but also because of how difficult it is to recover from a delayed flight.
Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 states that a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to a long delay. This means you’re not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your delayed flight.
I realise this will be disappointing for you but I hope this information will help you to understand our decision.
Best regards
Oct 12, 2017, 2:20 am
#1535
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,492
Flightaware shows landed at 12:48 (wheels on ground) and then taxied for 26 minutes before a gate arrival 3 hours and 56 minutes behind schedule...EUClaim and bottonline both seem to agree with €300 compensation due
Oct 12, 2017, 3:20 am
#1536
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: LHR
Programs: BA Silver, IHG Gold Amb.
Posts: 159
Being the cynic that i am, this just makes me think that they believed at the time that they would be liable, and pushed to get in below the next level of compensation.
ooh well, i will see how i get on.
thanks all for your help.
Oct 12, 2017, 9:57 am
#1537
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: LHR
Programs: BA Silver, IHG Gold Amb.
Posts: 159
Hello again,
I have just had a further reply from BA.
So what should my next steps be? CEDR or MCOL?
Quote:
I’m sorry to hear you remain unhappy with our resolution to your complaint. I’ve reviewed all of the information you’ve given us, however, our response will not change and we’re unable to respond to any further requests for compensation.
You can refer your complaint to the Centre for Effective Dispute Resolution (CEDR) for an independent decision to be made. CEDR is an independent dispute resolution provider, certified by the Civil Aviation Authority, to adjudicate disputes between airlines and their passengers which haven’t been resolved through the airline’s own complaints procedure.
You can find out how to refer your complaint to CEDR by visiting their website:
CEDR
Please note that the scope of the adjudication scheme is limited and it could be that your complaint falls outside of it. If you choose to contact CEDR, they’ll be able to advise you if they’re able to deal with your complaint. You may also use the European Commission’s online dispute resolution platform to submit your complaint if you wish. This can be done by completing the electronic form available via this link:
https://webgate.ec.europa.eu/odr/mai...main.home.show
I hope this helps and thanks again for contacting us.
Best regards
I have just had a further reply from BA.
So what should my next steps be? CEDR or MCOL?
Quote:
I’m sorry to hear you remain unhappy with our resolution to your complaint. I’ve reviewed all of the information you’ve given us, however, our response will not change and we’re unable to respond to any further requests for compensation.
You can refer your complaint to the Centre for Effective Dispute Resolution (CEDR) for an independent decision to be made. CEDR is an independent dispute resolution provider, certified by the Civil Aviation Authority, to adjudicate disputes between airlines and their passengers which haven’t been resolved through the airline’s own complaints procedure.
You can find out how to refer your complaint to CEDR by visiting their website:
CEDR
Please note that the scope of the adjudication scheme is limited and it could be that your complaint falls outside of it. If you choose to contact CEDR, they’ll be able to advise you if they’re able to deal with your complaint. You may also use the European Commission’s online dispute resolution platform to submit your complaint if you wish. This can be done by completing the electronic form available via this link:
https://webgate.ec.europa.eu/odr/mai...main.home.show
I hope this helps and thanks again for contacting us.
Best regards
Oct 12, 2017, 10:23 am
#1538
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,829
Oct 12, 2017, 10:30 am
#1539
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: LHR
Programs: BA Silver, IHG Gold Amb.
Posts: 159
Oct 12, 2017, 11:15 am
#1540
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Welcome to FT, baflyer123!
On scheduled times, BA294 --> BA139 would have departed ORD at 1730 and arrived at BOM at 2345.
BA296 --> BA199 would have departed ORD at 2040 and arrived at BOM at 1110. BA296 would arrive at LHR after BA139 had already departed, so regardless of your bags the earliest flight that you would have been on was BA199.
So whatever happened your arrival at BOM would inevitably have been delayed for more than four hours.
In a similar situation, I was booked to fly LCY-AMS. The aircraft went tech after we boarded. By the time we were shepherded to the ticket desk for rebooking, the only other LCY-AMS flight that evening was full and we were told that we would be travelling the next day at the earliest. So I rebooked for four days later. BA paid my 261/2004 without any question. The fact that I had chosen not to fly the next day, but several days later, was never raised as any sort of reason for not paying.
You may get more advice on this thread: The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
1. BA 294 left the gate on time but during engine startup the no 2 engine fails to startup.
2. Pulled back to gate after 45 minutes and the BA engineers try to fix the problem and are unable to.
3. Flight was not cancelled but rather delayed for a day till they get the part from JFK.
4. I was in F on BA 294 and was rebooked into BA 296 but that would have caused my connection to Bombay BA 139 to be missed. ... As a result I had to be rebooked onto BA 199 as well.
2. Pulled back to gate after 45 minutes and the BA engineers try to fix the problem and are unable to.
3. Flight was not cancelled but rather delayed for a day till they get the part from JFK.
4. I was in F on BA 294 and was rebooked into BA 296 but that would have caused my connection to Bombay BA 139 to be missed. ... As a result I had to be rebooked onto BA 199 as well.
BA296 --> BA199 would have departed ORD at 2040 and arrived at BOM at 1110. BA296 would arrive at LHR after BA139 had already departed, so regardless of your bags the earliest flight that you would have been on was BA199.
So whatever happened your arrival at BOM would inevitably have been delayed for more than four hours.
In a similar situation, I was booked to fly LCY-AMS. The aircraft went tech after we boarded. By the time we were shepherded to the ticket desk for rebooking, the only other LCY-AMS flight that evening was full and we were told that we would be travelling the next day at the earliest. So I rebooked for four days later. BA paid my 261/2004 without any question. The fact that I had chosen not to fly the next day, but several days later, was never raised as any sort of reason for not paying.
You may get more advice on this thread: The 2017 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Oct 12, 2017, 12:09 pm
#1541
Join Date: Mar 2015
Programs: BA GGL
Posts: 2,447
So the French air traffic control strike caused a 4 1/2 hour landing delay to my flight.
BA hasn't confirmed this was why the delay happened, however, but I'm pretty sure this is what will be cited.
Given the get-out clause for such action, I presume there's no point in trying to submit a claim?
Thoughts?
BA hasn't confirmed this was why the delay happened, however, but I'm pretty sure this is what will be cited.
Given the get-out clause for such action, I presume there's no point in trying to submit a claim?
Thoughts?
Oct 12, 2017, 3:33 pm
#1542
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,829
It's a fair question given the tone of the last reply from BA. Personally I would give notice, just in case it did end up in court (which I doubt), since a judge may regard that as a basic failure to do things the right way. There again I think it is important to stick to the deadlines that both you and the court process set.
Oct 12, 2017, 3:37 pm
#1543
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,829
Personally I wouldn't waste even an email on this. Though the thought of French ATC strikes being "extraordinary" wouldn't pass many tests of plausibility, nevertheless to the best of my knowledge neither BA nor any airline I know of has voluntarily or involuntarily paid Article 7 compensation for that or any similar ATC strike.
Oct 12, 2017, 3:42 pm
#1544
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,829
1. Since the next best routing due to the engine issue on BA 294 would have made me to arrive at my destination close to 12 hours later than my original ticket. I feel I have a case to file for the 600 Euro delay claim. Let me know if there is something I am missing here.
Oct 12, 2017, 9:44 pm
#1545
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 812
The Court of Appeal of England and Wales has just handed down its judgment in the joined cases of Gahan v Emirates and Buckley v Emirates, reaffirming the CJEU's earlier decision in Folkerts.
From the CAA’s press release:
From the CAA’s press release:
• The Court of Appeal agreed with the Court of Justice of the European Union view that liability for compensation for delay depends on the delay in arriving at the 'final destination'. Where more than one flight is taken to reach the final destination, the flights are taken together for the purpose of assessing whether there has been a 3 hour or more delay.
• The Court of Appeal said that Article 7 of EC 261/2004 (which sets out the right to compensation) applies to non-Community carriers in respect of flights to their final destination.
• The Court of Appeal said that Article 7 of EC 261/2004 (which sets out the right to compensation) applies to non-Community carriers in respect of flights to their final destination.