BOH

Yes I was fully aware of that. My reply wondered why Pascoe had continued the same theme in assuming that was what I was thinking rather than inquiring why Waterhorse had replied in this sneering manner.

NeverFirst

It's a (mostly) text-based Internet message-board. Things can get misinterpreted. I mostly assume that nobody is sneering, especially about something as innocuous as the mechanisms of relief-pilot rostering.

But back on-topic, it makes sense that the knock-on effect could be quite dramatic - in the end I imagine you will hit somebody who ends up at an outstation and out-of-hours leading to a cancelled last flight home of the day. That would be expensive for BA, so easier just to take the hit on the flight affected.

Waterhorse

BOH

I thought about this further and 2-3 years ago I was on a LGW to VIE flight when the plane went tech at the gate (minor problem with a door latch to the hold) and we were quickly transferred to an identical BA plane 2-3 gates away and told that this one was due to operate a service some 90 minutes after ours. As the problem with our plane was minor and BA engineers were on the way over to fix it it was easier to swap the planes over and minimise the delay. Sounds like some good juggling of resources and people by BA does happen.....looking at another departure close to ours (a slightly later departing plane at a nearby gate) and swapping the two services over. However I assume this was equipment only, and our flight crew stayed the same so is not entirely the same of course.

BOH

How ironic is that......in a thread called, "Ask the staffer"

T8191

Hey, let’s please lay off the professionals who try to help/inform on here.

Good manners maketh a man ... let’s keep it that way, eh?

BOH

Couldn't agree more, thought my original question was asked in a hugely polite way. Pity the answers from the "professional" were not equalled. As you say, the key phrase is "try to inform" - as you also say, let's keep it that way.......in this thread called "Ask the staffer"

highpeaklad

As you implied in your own question, rostering isn’t as simple as it seems. Who knows where your flights roster would end? Could be Genoa and back then a night stop somewhere else. Other rosters may be all finishing back in LGW so would screw up the other pilots plans.

BOH

Yes you are right, on reading subsequent posts to my original question we got there (eventually). It clearly isn't as simple as it seems.....which is perhaps why I asked the question in the first place to try to understand why it isn't? I asked simply out of curiosity, not out of being critical of BA in having no flexibilty or that their pilots were lounging around, drinking coffee. On reading some of the subsequent replies I really wish I hadn't asked....but I did think this was the purpose of "Ask the staffer".....to ask questions on operational things as to why something happens in a certain way.

T8191

Rostering. I spent a couple of years being responsible for generating a monthly Watch Roster for 50 ATCOs, who were workng 3 different watch patterns on a 24h ATC Radar Unit ... factoring in leave and training, of course, and with a manning requirement that changed throught the day and at weekends. And with different levels of ATC licences. Oh, and they had to change between those 3 watch patterns regularly, for a variety of reasons (ISTR 6 weeks was the max we kept people on one watch system, for fairness.).

Done with quill and parchment back then, it would take many hours to get it right. Even with IT support, I can just about imagine what it’s like rostering BA crews

BertieBadger

They had just retired the slate and chisels then?

Modern airline operations must be insanely complex. I'm glad I just fly on 'em!

PETER01

I liked the post by Waterhorse and interpreted it completely different from yourself and thought it was very helpful, informative and not rude in any way shape or form. I can't see anything wrong with it at all, completely the opposite in fact!

A couple of my usual curious questions for Pilots, CSD/CSM's and ATC if you don't mind and apologies if I have missed this before but I can't recall it.

How often do Pilots get officially assessed? Is it every 6 months or is it done by flying hours or both in a yearly period? I remember an ex-relative who is an ex RN Helicopter Pilot getting 'Trappers' every 6 months and all the pilots were relieved once it was over but it kept the flying standards very high and was even before they came to the base and there was a huge amount of studying beforehand IIRC.

How often do CSD's/CSM's get assessed? Once a year, twice a year? Is it done by an Inflight Business Manager (that's what they're called?)

Same with ATC's, regular training/requalification days?

Thanks in advance!

MADPhil

It hurts just to think about them, but there are some fascinating and complex problems involved if you try to optimise them. It took ages to get a handle on the "simple" delivery truck problem

T8191

Mil ATCOs 'enjoyed' the annual visit of the ATC Examining Board (ATCEB), who would do a random collection of on-console practical examinations [in various positions] and a quick "Local Knowledge" check. You might escape one year's visit, but you would be flagged up for the next one.

In addition, we had the dreaded "PK" ... the Professional Knowledge Exam, 1-on-1 with an Examiner for an hour or more, where he would dig deep into your brain cells for information from ... ATC Order book, Flying Wing Order Book, Group Orders, RAF and National Documents. Some questions would be "memory items', the stuff you would have to use whilst actually talking to aircraft. Other questions would be from the 2-foot high pile of documents, requiring you to show you could find the answer quickly [having checked for any current amendments].

Usually the Local Examining Officer (LEO - usually the SATCO plus possibly another on large Units) would give newly arrived controllers their PK during their local endorsement process. The SATCO [and extra LEO] could of course expect an interesting PK from the ATCEB before being endorsed as LEO

Distinguished Passes were awarded by the ATCEB (was it 90% on the PK?), and annotated in your RAF Form 5994. To my regret, all of mine seem to be "Competent" or "Pass" except for one solitary "DP" from the ATCEB in 1978!

BOH

Good, am very pleased for you. I believe he posted upthread that perhaps he could have been answered differently or even not bothered at all! Nice to hear you felt that was all OK though.

So let's (respectfully) just agree to differ