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FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   bmi | Diamond Club (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/bmi-diamond-club-486/)
-   -   Redemption Help: The DC redemption "Is this Route Allowed ?" Master Thread (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/bmi-diamond-club/1043560-dc-redemption-route-allowed-master-thread.html)

BristolTraveller Oct 5, 2011 3:39 am
Originally Posted by diamond club (Post 17222867)
echino - in answer to your question if you/your friend are booked to travel LHR-ICN-KHV and you decide not to take the onward journey to KHV the reservation will be checked and extra miles will be removed from your account.
Good. ^. It's good to see the rules are being enforced, otherwise the small number of people playing fast and hard with the system put it at risk for all of us. (c.f. past discussions on how many people you can "smuggle" into lounges).

onlysuites Oct 5, 2011 5:54 am
Originally Posted by diamond club (Post 17222867)
echino - in answer to your question if you/your friend are booked to travel LHR-ICN-KHV and you decide not to take the onward journey to KHV the reservation will be checked and extra miles will be removed from your account.

This is covered in our terms and conditions 3.12 -

bmi shall be entitled to remove any Destinations Miles and Membership Status Miles that have been awarded in relation to cancelled, refunded or returned flights, goods or services and for the avoidance of doubt, include, for any reason, a change of destination on a redeemed flight, cancellation of a redeemed flight or a no show occurring on a redemption flight sector which results in the Destination Miles zone calculation changing.
^

ozon78 Oct 5, 2011 8:53 am
Originally Posted by diamond club (Post 17222867)
echino - in answer to your question if you/your friend are booked to travel LHR-ICN-KHV and you decide not to take the onward journey to KHV the reservation will be checked and extra miles will be removed from your account.

This is covered in our terms and conditions 3.12 -

bmi shall be entitled to remove any Destinations Miles and Membership Status Miles that have been awarded in relation to cancelled, refunded or returned flights, goods or services and for the avoidance of doubt, include, for any reason, a change of destination on a redeemed flight, cancellation of a redeemed flight or a no show occurring on a redemption flight sector which results in the Destination Miles zone calculation changing.
Dear Diamond Club,

In the light of the above, could you clarify how could this be that the LHR - KHV - Zone 1 to Zone 2 via Zone 8 (12k miles vs. 140 k miles point-by-point) is a valid connection and is NOT charged on a point-by-point basis; at the same time, EZE-JNB-FRA -which appears as a valid connection on StarAlliance website becomes invalid if another sector within the same zone (either SCL-EZE both Zone 4) or (FRA-BHX both Zone 1) is added?

jbfield Oct 5, 2011 9:59 am
Presumable because there are other, more direct routes that could be taken, e.g. the direct EZE-FRA flights, or conection via GRU?

echino Oct 5, 2011 11:10 am
Originally Posted by diamond club (Post 17222867)
echino - in answer to your question if you/your friend are booked to travel LHR-ICN-KHV and you decide not to take the onward journey to KHV the reservation will be checked and extra miles will be removed from your account.
Thank you for clarification! I used LHR-ICN-KHV as an example, my actual routing will be different. I will then book the two persons separately where they really need to go (one is genuinely going to Far East Russia), and will not be trying to play tricks.

echino Oct 5, 2011 11:38 am
Just off the phone with ICC, tried to book FRA-YVR-ICN-UUS and got shot down. This is genuine itinerary, no tricks, in economy class (no maximizing here) for my brother, who wants to visit me at YVR and relatives at UUS. No luck booking it as Z1-Z2. The routing is valid (for example, you could book it on aeroplan website), and ICC agent agreed it is valid, but they insisted on charging Z1-Z3 + Z3-Z2 because of stopover in YVR. After talking to a supervisor, the agent said the reason is because no stopovers whatsoever are permitted on a Z1-Z2 booking.

littlevoices Oct 5, 2011 12:56 pm
Originally Posted by echino (Post 17224841)
Just off the phone with ICC, tried to book FRA-YVR-ICN-UUS and got shot down. This is genuine itinerary, no tricks
I think in this case its just common sense - its a bit of the wrong way around the world to get there... One set of your relatives are going to have to be disappointed or you'll have to pay for the zone 3 aspect. If aeroplan are willing to offer you this routing then you might want to consider booking using their miles... one suspects it might be slightly more expensive than a BD route, even with the z1-z3,z3-z2 breakdown.

echino Oct 5, 2011 1:09 pm
Originally Posted by littlevoices (Post 17225272)
I think in this case its just common sense - its a bit of the wrong way around the world to get there... One set of your relatives are going to have to be disappointed or you'll have to pay for the zone 3 aspect. If aeroplan are willing to offer you this routing then you might want to consider booking using their miles... one suspects it might be slightly more expensive than a BD route, even with the z1-z3,z3-z2 breakdown.

Yes, common sense says it's a strange routing. But it is valid one. I just did not expect to be shot down on the basis of a stopover not being allowed. They said connection in YVR is fine, but no stopover on Z1-Z2 bookings. If one goes by the rule, then it reads like this: No stop-overs are permitted within Europe. Outside of Europe one stop-over is permitted. YVR is definitely outside of Europe. I understand I am trying to take some advantage of a loophole here, but going by the rules it should be fine.

jms_uk Oct 5, 2011 1:59 pm
I think this only applies if end destination is outside of Europe too...

Originally Posted by echino (Post 17225332)
If one goes by the rule, then it reads like this: No stop-overs are permitted within Europe. Outside of Europe one stop-over is permitted. YVR is definitely outside of Europe.

CAlex Oct 5, 2011 3:05 pm
How in the world would a Z1-Z2 booking go via Z3?
FRA-ICN-UUS - 6318 miles - valid booking
FRA-YVR-ICN-UUS - 11187 miles - 77% more miles than the direct route.

The only thing that comes to my mind is that you made the "customer request of the day" for the ICC team :)

cgnSenator Oct 5, 2011 3:36 pm
Originally Posted by ozon78 (Post 17223984)
Dear Diamond Club,

In the light of the above, could you clarify how could this be that the LHR - KHV - Zone 1 to Zone 2 via Zone 8 (12k miles vs. 140 k miles point-by-point) is a valid connection and is NOT charged on a point-by-point basis; at the same time, EZE-JNB-FRA -which appears as a valid connection on StarAlliance website becomes invalid if another sector within the same zone (either SCL-EZE both Zone 4) or (FRA-BHX both Zone 1) is added?
That is really very interesting!

ckone501 Oct 5, 2011 4:19 pm
Originally Posted by CAlex (Post 17226012)
How in the world would a Z1-Z2 booking go via Z3?
FRA-ICN-UUS - 6318 miles - valid booking
FRA-YVR-ICN-UUS - 11187 miles - 77% more miles than the direct route.

The only thing that comes to my mind is that you made the "customer request of the day" for the ICC team :)
Is it possible to have a "short" stopover in ICN on a return award to UUS/KHV?
If yes, how long would I need to stay in KHV/UUS?

Thanks

echino Oct 5, 2011 4:21 pm
Originally Posted by CAlex (Post 17226012)
How in the world would a Z1-Z2 booking go via Z3?
FRA-ICN-UUS - 6318 miles - valid booking
FRA-YVR-ICN-UUS - 11187 miles - 77% more miles than the direct route.

The only thing that comes to my mind is that you made the "customer request of the day" for the ICC team :)
How in the world Far East Russia is considered Z2? It should be Z8.

FRA-YVR-ICN is perfectly valid for Z1-Z8. For example, if you go to aircanada.com and try searching for FRA-ICN, it will offer you FRA-YVR-ICN as an option, and nobody is disputing that it is valid. Same for aeroplan.com, it will offer you FRA-YVR-ICN for FRA-ICN mileage, and FRA-YVR-ICN-UUS for FRA-UUS mileage.

Is it the YVR stopover that is in question here, over interpretation of "No stop-overs are permitted within Europe."

ckone501 Oct 5, 2011 4:25 pm
Originally Posted by echino (Post 17226418)
How in the world Far East Russia is considered Z2? It should be Z8.

FRA-YVR-ICN is perfectly valid for Z1-Z8. For example, if you go to aircanada.com and try searching for FRA-ICN, it will offer you FRA-YVR-ICN as an option, and nobody is disputing that it is valid. Same for aeroplan.com, it will offer you FRA-YVR-ICN for FRA-ICN mileage, and FRA-YVR-ICN-UUS for FRA-UUS mileage.

Is it the YVR stopover that is in question here, over interpretation of "No stop-overs are permitted within Europe."
Try staralliance.com and you will see that this route is not valid.

It shows you the routing via YVR as you are searching on AC website...

jms_uk Oct 5, 2011 4:25 pm
Originally Posted by ckone501 (Post 17226413)
Is it possible to have a "short" stopover in ICN on a return award to UUS/KHV?
Up to 24 hours, I believe.

Originally Posted by ckone501 (Post 17226413)
If yes, how long would I need to stay in KHV/UUS?
How long do you want to stay? It's your end destination.


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