Aug 31, 2015, 6:08 am
Last edit by: beltway
Changes to Amtrak Guest Rewards in 2016
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
AGR altered its expiration policy, which previously required paid travel once every 36 months. Effective August 27, 2015, any points-earning or redemption activity will reset the 36-month clock. Effective April 2019, points expire after 24 months of inactivity.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015. Post-Rollout Issues/Unknowns
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
As in the past, members earn Tier Qualifying Points (TQP) for paid travel at the rate of 2 TQP per dollar. With the 2016 changes, however, AGR has eliminated In addition, AGR now provides new class-of-service TQP bonuses: 25% for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. (As noted below, passengers will also earn redeemable AGR points in the same amount.)
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same: Benefits for each status level, including the Tier Bonus on cash fares (see below), remain the same.
Earning AGR Points Redeemable for Travel- the 100 TQP minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer TQP), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" TQP minimums for Business class (formerly 500 TQP) and First class (formerly 750 TQP); see post #83
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same:
- Select - 5,000 TQP
- Select Plus - 10,000 TQP
- Select Executive - 20,000 TQP
Members continue to earn redeemable AGR points for paid travel (except as discussed below in this section) at the rate of 2 points per dollar, plus a new 25% point bonus for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. Sleeper-car tickets do not earn a bonus.
With the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates In addition to base points, members with status continue to earn Tier Bonus redeemable AGR points (i.e., not TQP) at the same level as in 2015: As was the case before, members do not earn points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redeeming for TravelWith the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates
- the 100 point minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer points), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" minimums for Business class (previously 500 points) and First class (previously 750 points)
- Select - 25%
- Select Plus - 50%
- Select Executive - 100%
For 2016, redemption rules have changed drastically. AGR has discontinued its fixed-point awards and zone system, transitioning instead to a revenue-based system. Under the new program, the points required for an award ticket--including multi-ride tickets and monthly passes--are, with some exceptions noted below, proportional to the cash price of the ticket.
In general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
Note: Reward tickets booked before 1/24/16 are subject to the new redemption policy if modified or canceled on or after that date.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dateseliminated: On the plus side, AGR will eliminate award redemption blackout dates and Acela time-of-day restrictions. When the 2016 changes were announced, AGR claimed that blackout dates were being eliminated. As of January 24, 2016, the AGR website still makes that claim. Unfortunately, it is a lie.
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
Amtrak quietly added similar language to the website in early February 2016. The website also indicates that the point costs for "peak travel" dates and times may be increased in addition to any increase resulting resulting from a higher cash fare. To date, additional points costs of 50% and 100% have been observed on certain itineraries.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
Points ExpirationIn general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
- Minimum award pricing: Regardless of the cash fare, a non-Acela award ticket costs a minimum of 800 AGR points. As a result, using AGR points for such tickets with a cash price under $24 (e.g., LNC-PHL or BWI-WAS) results in lower yields.
Acela award tickets cost a minimum of 4,000 points. Using AGR points for Acela tickets costing less than $103 results in lower yields.
- No redemption for Saver awards: Per AGR's FT representative, members cannot redeem points for tickets at the least-expensive Saver rate. For instance, even if a $52 Saver WAS-NYP cash fare is available, points can be used only to purchase tickets at the equivalent of an $86 Value fare or higher (resulting in a yield of 1.75 cents/point at best).
- Peak travel dates/times: As discussed below under "Blackout Dates," Amtrak has quietly introduced a "peak travel" penalty in which certain high-demand itineraries (not published in advance) will cost 50% or even 100% more points than would normally correspond to the available cash fare.
- Most discount fares inapplicable: Under the 2016 program, AGR points are redeemable for tickets based only on the Adult or Child price, and not at the equivalent of Senior, AAA, or other discounted fares. (See post #83.)
- As was the case before, members may not redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dates
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
you may find limited availability on peak travel dates or times and it is possible that not every seat will be available for redemption. When redeeming points for trips during peak travel dates and times, some itineraries may be available only to our Select Plus and Select Executive members.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
CAUTION: The new policy is worded to imply that reservation "modification" and "cancellation" are treated differently. A "modification" ostensibly triggers a penalty only of "any fare difference returned to member," implying that changing to a more expensive fare should involve no penalty and changing to a less expensive fare should be subject to a penalty only on the refunded points difference.
Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
For complete details on the 2016 change rules, including the special rules for multi-ride tickets and monthly passes, see the AGR website.Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015.
- Class-of-service bonuses have been posting initially as non-TQPs, although subsequent data points suggest there is currently a delay of ~12 days in proper crediting.
- Agents have claimed that any change incurs the 10/20% penalty (up to and including asking for a changed room assignment) on the full value of the ticket, rather than just anything involving a reduction in price being penalized 10/20% on the changed portion
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Introducing the next stop for Amtrak Guest Rewards
Feb 12, 2016, 9:54 am
#436
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: PSC
Programs: Hilton Diamond/IHG Platinum/DL Plutononium
Posts: 1,728
Don't forget that you can probably get that NHV-MDN ticket very cheap and just redeem the 800 points for STM-NHV (or take metro north...)
Feb 12, 2016, 9:57 am
#437
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: PSC
Programs: Hilton Diamond/IHG Platinum/DL Plutononium
Posts: 1,728
So apparently the 5:00 departure from NYP is considered "peak" and the 6:00 isn't. Even though they're charging the same amount cash. Crazy rules if you ask me.
Feb 12, 2016, 11:54 pm
#439
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
Yeah, that's what they said. There's a bare technicality they're right on (they ditched the formal blackouts) but by any read on the spirit of what they said, they took us all for a ride. Instead of "Together we ride on", "Let us take you for a ride" might have been more appropriate.
Feb 13, 2016, 2:47 am
#440
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: CT/NYC Tri-state
Posts: 96
The schedule for metro north on many amtrak connections don't match up. You get stuck for an hour in new haven in both directions trying it from the Stamford area forcing the convienience of taking amtrak from Stamford instead of just NHV to Mdn
Feb 16, 2016, 9:08 pm
#441
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Programs: Marriott lifetime Titanium, Delta Platinum
Posts: 5,472
Are you (the below poster) arguing that it's fair for Amtrak to apply the new change/cancellation-fees/restrictions/penalties to AGR award tickets purchased BEFORE the changes were announced? IMO, it's outrageous to apply new terms and conditions to previously purchased tickets that had their own explicit terms and conditions at the time of purchase.
Originally Posted by ohmark View Post
(Question to Amtrak Insider)
Are you saying that I will be treated under the new modification/cancellation policy for AGR tickets I purchased under the old policy? Or are you saying that if I now exchange or change tickets I purchased under the old policy, the new tickets that result from the transaction will be covered under the new policy. If it's the latter, it makes sense. If it's the former, it's unethical treatment of your customers.
Originally Posted by ohmark View Post
(Question to Amtrak Insider)
Are you saying that I will be treated under the new modification/cancellation policy for AGR tickets I purchased under the old policy? Or are you saying that if I now exchange or change tickets I purchased under the old policy, the new tickets that result from the transaction will be covered under the new policy. If it's the latter, it makes sense. If it's the former, it's unethical treatment of your customers.
Feb 16, 2016, 9:11 pm
#442
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
Feb 16, 2016, 10:27 pm
#443
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,195
The policy change was announced, but was it written into the T&C of purchased tickets? What about those who booked before the change was even announced?
It's more or less standard practice in the travel industry for things booked before a policy change to be held to the old standard. Those of us in the know here don't really have an excuse, but those who booked before these changes were announced or those who don't pay super close attention to AGR announcements could have been caught by surprise.
Feb 17, 2016, 2:02 am
#444
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 86
It's more or less standard practice in the travel industry for things booked before a policy change to be held to the old standard. Those of us in the know here don't really have an excuse, but those who booked before these changes were announced or those who don't pay super close attention to AGR announcements could have been caught by surprise.
Someone who bought a ticket last March for a trip today with the understanding that he could cancel it without penalty until departure has every right to expect that understanding to be upheld - even if he was aware that a policy change was coming up (which is by no means a reasonable assumption), he never agreed to a retroactive change in return policy.
Does anyone know if the 10%/20% deduction is actually being applied to reservations made prior to the change? The system presumably applies it by default, but are agents able/willing to waive it?
Feb 17, 2016, 7:51 am
#445
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Programs: Marriott lifetime Titanium, Delta Platinum
Posts: 5,472
Please read more carefully so that you understand. People purchased these tickets BEFORE the new policy was announced. AGR tickets can be purchased 11 months in advance--not just "several months in advance." How about the next time you buy a new car with a 3-year 50,000 mile warranty; then a year later the manufacturer changes it to 3 months and 3,000 miles--and then tells you that the new warranty policy also applies to the car you bought last year. You okay with that??
Last edited by ohmark; Feb 17, 2016 at 10:53 am
Feb 17, 2016, 11:54 am
#446
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: PHL
Programs: AA(PPro), UA, AGR, BW(Plat), HH, WoH, MB(S)
Posts: 778
Please read more carefully so that you understand. People purchased these tickets BEFORE the new policy was announced. AGR tickets can be purchased 11 months in advance--not just "several months in advance." How about the next time you buy a new car with a 3-year 50,000 mile warranty; then a year later the manufacturer changes it to 3 months and 3,000 miles--and then tells you that the new warranty policy also applies to the car you bought last year. You okay with that??
Amtrak provided notice of the change in the refund policy almost five months in advance of it going into effect. The fact that it was going to be retroactively applied to existing reservations was known early in the game. Anyone who did not approve of that change had the opportunity over multiple months to cancel an existing reservation and get a full refund of points. Using your car analogy, this would be like your warranty being changed, but being given several months to reject that change and get your purchase price back. In the end, it was the member's choice to retain existing reservations and accept the new policy or cancel the reservation with no penalty.
It should be noted that retroactive application of a new refund policy was also enacted by Amtrak on paid reservations a couple of years ago. The fact that they also did it with the new AGR policy should not come as a surprise. Just to be clear, I don't like the new AGR penalty. It is pretty onerous and materially reduces the value of the program to me.
Feb 17, 2016, 12:58 pm
#447
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Albany, NY, USA
Programs: LT Mariott Platinum?, SPG Gold, Hilton Silver, AA Gold, Amtrak Nothing.
Posts: 104
And yet here we are on February 17th, 2016 with a lot of unanswered questions...and the last post by AGRInsider was Jan 24th, 2016, the 1st day of implementation.
But whatever, I can easily take my travel $ elsewhere.
But whatever, I can easily take my travel $ elsewhere.
Feb 17, 2016, 1:04 pm
#448
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: United States
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Amtrak
Posts: 4,647
Under the old program, this redemption would have been a consistent 4000 points for thru trains or connecting trains. I get what you're saying, but the new program is much better for trips like STM-MDN (on the redemption side...not so much on the earning side).
Feb 17, 2016, 1:32 pm
#449
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan USA
Programs: Marriott lifetime Titanium, Delta Platinum
Posts: 5,472
The AGR Terms and Conditions specify Amtrak's right to change any of the terms and conditions at any time. This is boiler plate that most times is not called into play, but is does permit AGR to do pretty much whatever they want, whenever they want.
Amtrak provided notice of the change in the refund policy almost five months in advance of it going into effect. The fact that it was going to be retroactively applied to existing reservations was known early in the game. Anyone who did not approve of that change had the opportunity over multiple months to cancel an existing reservation and get a full refund of points. Using your car analogy, this would be like your warranty being changed, but being given several months to reject that change and get your purchase price back. In the end, it was the member's choice to retain existing reservations and accept the new policy or cancel the reservation with no penalty.
It should be noted that retroactive application of a new refund policy was also enacted by Amtrak on paid reservations a couple of years ago. The fact that they also did it with the new AGR policy should not come as a surprise. Just to be clear, I don't like the new AGR penalty. It is pretty onerous and materially reduces the value of the program to me.
Amtrak provided notice of the change in the refund policy almost five months in advance of it going into effect. The fact that it was going to be retroactively applied to existing reservations was known early in the game. Anyone who did not approve of that change had the opportunity over multiple months to cancel an existing reservation and get a full refund of points. Using your car analogy, this would be like your warranty being changed, but being given several months to reject that change and get your purchase price back. In the end, it was the member's choice to retain existing reservations and accept the new policy or cancel the reservation with no penalty.
It should be noted that retroactive application of a new refund policy was also enacted by Amtrak on paid reservations a couple of years ago. The fact that they also did it with the new AGR policy should not come as a surprise. Just to be clear, I don't like the new AGR penalty. It is pretty onerous and materially reduces the value of the program to me.
Second, your comment that such customers had "multiple months" to cancel their reservations, assumes that all of those disadvantaged Amtrak patrons keep constant track of updated policies and rules on their tickets---different from the rules and policies and terms and conditions in effect at the time they made their purchase. Maybe regular participants here do that; but not most regular people. Further, if Amtrak wanted to be able to make that argument or take that position in good faith, then it should have taken the path of notifying by email each and every person with an outstanding AGR ticket of the new terms and conditions affecting their already purchased tickets. Of course, it did not (but will argue that publishing on the website was sufficient).
Third, I'm not satisfied that adhesion contract wording that allows Amtrak, after it has sold a product with in-effect terms and conditions, to retroactively change those terms and conditions would successfully sail through a court of law. IMO, it's outrageous, unfair, and maybe ready to be overturned in a court should anybody get mad enough to do something about it.
The change language is as follows:
"Amtrak may, in its discretion, cancel, modify, restrict, or terminate the Program or any aspects or features of the Program at any time without prior notice. Updated Program rules will be available at www.AmtrakGuestRewards.com. Any change in the Program will apply to unredeemed points as well as points Members may earn in the future."
Whether that, or any other language in the T's and C's, insulates Amtrak from liability when ex post facto changing the T's and C's of already-issued tickets is not, IMO, an open and shut issue.
Feb 17, 2016, 6:58 pm
#450
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: flyover country
Posts: 2,435
Further, if Amtrak wanted to be able to make that argument or take that position in good faith, then it should have taken the path of notifying by email each and every person with an outstanding AGR ticket of the new terms and conditions affecting their already purchased tickets. Of course, it did not (but will argue that publishing on the website was sufficient).
Whether that, or any other language in the T's and C's, insulates Amtrak from liability when ex post facto changing the T's and C's of already-issued tickets is not, IMO, an open and shut issue.
In general (not just AGR), I wish a rewards program would date its terms and conditions, perhaps at the paragraph level but absolutely at the web page level. It is not reasonable to expect a participant to wade through umpty-hundred lines of legalese hoping to recognize what has changed. It would be reasonable for the most recent changes (and perhaps back through two or three versions) to be marked somehow.