Aug 31, 2015, 6:08 am
Last edit by: beltway
Changes to Amtrak Guest Rewards in 2016
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
AGR altered its expiration policy, which previously required paid travel once every 36 months. Effective August 27, 2015, any points-earning or redemption activity will reset the 36-month clock. Effective April 2019, points expire after 24 months of inactivity.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015. Post-Rollout Issues/Unknowns
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
As in the past, members earn Tier Qualifying Points (TQP) for paid travel at the rate of 2 TQP per dollar. With the 2016 changes, however, AGR has eliminated In addition, AGR now provides new class-of-service TQP bonuses: 25% for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. (As noted below, passengers will also earn redeemable AGR points in the same amount.)
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same: Benefits for each status level, including the Tier Bonus on cash fares (see below), remain the same.
Earning AGR Points Redeemable for Travel- the 100 TQP minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer TQP), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" TQP minimums for Business class (formerly 500 TQP) and First class (formerly 750 TQP); see post #83
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same:
- Select - 5,000 TQP
- Select Plus - 10,000 TQP
- Select Executive - 20,000 TQP
Members continue to earn redeemable AGR points for paid travel (except as discussed below in this section) at the rate of 2 points per dollar, plus a new 25% point bonus for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. Sleeper-car tickets do not earn a bonus.
With the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates In addition to base points, members with status continue to earn Tier Bonus redeemable AGR points (i.e., not TQP) at the same level as in 2015: As was the case before, members do not earn points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redeeming for TravelWith the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates
- the 100 point minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer points), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" minimums for Business class (previously 500 points) and First class (previously 750 points)
- Select - 25%
- Select Plus - 50%
- Select Executive - 100%
For 2016, redemption rules have changed drastically. AGR has discontinued its fixed-point awards and zone system, transitioning instead to a revenue-based system. Under the new program, the points required for an award ticket--including multi-ride tickets and monthly passes--are, with some exceptions noted below, proportional to the cash price of the ticket.
In general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
Note: Reward tickets booked before 1/24/16 are subject to the new redemption policy if modified or canceled on or after that date.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dateseliminated: On the plus side, AGR will eliminate award redemption blackout dates and Acela time-of-day restrictions. When the 2016 changes were announced, AGR claimed that blackout dates were being eliminated. As of January 24, 2016, the AGR website still makes that claim. Unfortunately, it is a lie.
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
Amtrak quietly added similar language to the website in early February 2016. The website also indicates that the point costs for "peak travel" dates and times may be increased in addition to any increase resulting resulting from a higher cash fare. To date, additional points costs of 50% and 100% have been observed on certain itineraries.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
Points ExpirationIn general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
- Minimum award pricing: Regardless of the cash fare, a non-Acela award ticket costs a minimum of 800 AGR points. As a result, using AGR points for such tickets with a cash price under $24 (e.g., LNC-PHL or BWI-WAS) results in lower yields.
Acela award tickets cost a minimum of 4,000 points. Using AGR points for Acela tickets costing less than $103 results in lower yields.
- No redemption for Saver awards: Per AGR's FT representative, members cannot redeem points for tickets at the least-expensive Saver rate. For instance, even if a $52 Saver WAS-NYP cash fare is available, points can be used only to purchase tickets at the equivalent of an $86 Value fare or higher (resulting in a yield of 1.75 cents/point at best).
- Peak travel dates/times: As discussed below under "Blackout Dates," Amtrak has quietly introduced a "peak travel" penalty in which certain high-demand itineraries (not published in advance) will cost 50% or even 100% more points than would normally correspond to the available cash fare.
- Most discount fares inapplicable: Under the 2016 program, AGR points are redeemable for tickets based only on the Adult or Child price, and not at the equivalent of Senior, AAA, or other discounted fares. (See post #83.)
- As was the case before, members may not redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dates
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
you may find limited availability on peak travel dates or times and it is possible that not every seat will be available for redemption. When redeeming points for trips during peak travel dates and times, some itineraries may be available only to our Select Plus and Select Executive members.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
CAUTION: The new policy is worded to imply that reservation "modification" and "cancellation" are treated differently. A "modification" ostensibly triggers a penalty only of "any fare difference returned to member," implying that changing to a more expensive fare should involve no penalty and changing to a less expensive fare should be subject to a penalty only on the refunded points difference.
Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
For complete details on the 2016 change rules, including the special rules for multi-ride tickets and monthly passes, see the AGR website.Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015.
- Class-of-service bonuses have been posting initially as non-TQPs, although subsequent data points suggest there is currently a delay of ~12 days in proper crediting.
- Agents have claimed that any change incurs the 10/20% penalty (up to and including asking for a changed room assignment) on the full value of the ticket, rather than just anything involving a reduction in price being penalized 10/20% on the changed portion
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Introducing the next stop for Amtrak Guest Rewards
Feb 9, 2016, 10:08 am
#421
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
I think the difference is knowing what is/isn't an error. FWIW, there have been three/four (depending on how you count) things that went...differently than was initially stated:
(1) Points cost for "some" trains: Stated as an actual change
(2) Non-blackout blackouts: Stated as an actual change (and may God withdraw his blessings from the jerk in Marketing who decided to tout the removal of blackouts...bleeping liar)
(3) Class-of-service bonus not posting as TQPs: Not stated either way, turned out to be a bug...but took two weeks to figure out.
(4) Ticket change penalty applying to whole cost of old ticket: Not stated either way, not clarified, and appears to be policy, but directly contradicts the FAQ on the website.
Normally I'm in favor of "just fix whatever's wrong". When there's a whole slew of "unannounced changes", however, I think some detailed clarification as to what is and isn't an error (especially when the issues don't resolve in a day or two) rather than just a quick note on the FAQ are merited, at least on the website if not here. To restate, #1 and #2 above were "surprise changes" and got an announcement after the iron horse had left the car barn. #3 and #4 also happened at the same time. No announcement was made either way but the problems persisted for some time. Simply saying "Oops, technical issue, these will be fixed" wouldn't repair the damage from #1 and #2 (there's just no fixing the damage there, at least in the short term) but it would at least clarify what was a change, stop us from presuming the worst about what was/is going on (something that I think is justified in this case), and perhaps start a long road back.
Moreover, I agree with the above posters: This isn't "hand-holding", this is reasonable disclosure of changes in the program and separating "actual" changes from simple hiccups and bugs. The inability to do this is pretty bad. It's also one thing to "spin" a bad thing as a good one (not that I see any obligation to be polite about pretending I believe the spin). It's entirely another to have this combination of opacity, obfuscation, and misinformation/disinformation.
As to the point about Obama's Press Secretary, to take what I think is a passable analogy, I don't blame him for a bad EO. I do blame him if he blatantly lies about what the EO says or does when he comes out, particularly if it is self-evident, and if he's that brazen (something I think is a good analogy here) then I fully expect him to get torn to shreds by the reporters in the room in response. I'm also thinking of that general who was asked about the presence of a spy program which he denied...and which later came out. And no, I didn't cut him any slack either (so help me had I been on that committee I'd have been inclined to "permanently excuse him from testifying before the committee").
I will say that while I suspect that Anthony, at a bare minimum (I obviously cannot speak for his superiors in AGR, or indeed anyone else there) may have tried...it sounds like whomever was "upstairs" either pulled a take-back on any concessions or simply responded to the lobbying efforts to make things not-as-bad by not disclosing all of the changes...in which case, well-intentioned efforts in a very real way made things worse.
@bvb: My sources in Washington (yes, I have them, and yes, it's cool to say it like that) advise me that there's plenty of inbound flak. More than a few people were taken aback by the devaluation, and there's at least one "horror story" of someone who was unable to book an award before the devaluation because AGR took a particularly long time to post some points. Basically, imagine being at 39,950 and watching a planned 40k award go to 72k or something like that. At least in that case you can argue "should have gone in and bought points since you knew this was coming"...but I digress.
Edit: Two final thoughts:
(1) Yes, the Marketing stuff is probably on "autopilot", but that doesn't mean they couldn't/shouldn't have tried to queue another message. Also...it's a sort of mirror image of the summer incident (when the changes leaked amid an AGR point sale) but having "buy more points" hawked at me in the middle of a catastrophic devaluation with ambiguous-at-best changes to rules is pretty tone-deaf. I'm not going to blame the marketing firm, but it seems almost like someone having a laugh at our expense. I think it's also pretty telling that the only mention I can find in my AGR emails (I don't tend to throw stuff away) was buried in the "Acelabration" email that was ghost-written in Boardman's name. Of course, it should be noted that this email (which went out in January) didn't mention any of the "surprises")...meaning that to at least some extent, AGR did their best to "bury" 2.0 once it became clear that we (I use a very broad "we" here, but I don't know of too many folks that saw 2.0 as more than a mixed bag) weren't buying their line on it.
(2) I think it might be best (for AGR Insider and for us) if AGR Insider's role was transformed solely into dealing with technical issues (e.g. points posting gone awry, website spitting out an apparently errant point total) or posting factual statements about rules and "actual" marketing was left to Marketing.
(1) Points cost for "some" trains: Stated as an actual change
(2) Non-blackout blackouts: Stated as an actual change (and may God withdraw his blessings from the jerk in Marketing who decided to tout the removal of blackouts...bleeping liar)
(3) Class-of-service bonus not posting as TQPs: Not stated either way, turned out to be a bug...but took two weeks to figure out.
(4) Ticket change penalty applying to whole cost of old ticket: Not stated either way, not clarified, and appears to be policy, but directly contradicts the FAQ on the website.
Normally I'm in favor of "just fix whatever's wrong". When there's a whole slew of "unannounced changes", however, I think some detailed clarification as to what is and isn't an error (especially when the issues don't resolve in a day or two) rather than just a quick note on the FAQ are merited, at least on the website if not here. To restate, #1 and #2 above were "surprise changes" and got an announcement after the iron horse had left the car barn. #3 and #4 also happened at the same time. No announcement was made either way but the problems persisted for some time. Simply saying "Oops, technical issue, these will be fixed" wouldn't repair the damage from #1 and #2 (there's just no fixing the damage there, at least in the short term) but it would at least clarify what was a change, stop us from presuming the worst about what was/is going on (something that I think is justified in this case), and perhaps start a long road back.
Moreover, I agree with the above posters: This isn't "hand-holding", this is reasonable disclosure of changes in the program and separating "actual" changes from simple hiccups and bugs. The inability to do this is pretty bad. It's also one thing to "spin" a bad thing as a good one (not that I see any obligation to be polite about pretending I believe the spin). It's entirely another to have this combination of opacity, obfuscation, and misinformation/disinformation.
As to the point about Obama's Press Secretary, to take what I think is a passable analogy, I don't blame him for a bad EO. I do blame him if he blatantly lies about what the EO says or does when he comes out, particularly if it is self-evident, and if he's that brazen (something I think is a good analogy here) then I fully expect him to get torn to shreds by the reporters in the room in response. I'm also thinking of that general who was asked about the presence of a spy program which he denied...and which later came out. And no, I didn't cut him any slack either (so help me had I been on that committee I'd have been inclined to "permanently excuse him from testifying before the committee").
I will say that while I suspect that Anthony, at a bare minimum (I obviously cannot speak for his superiors in AGR, or indeed anyone else there) may have tried...it sounds like whomever was "upstairs" either pulled a take-back on any concessions or simply responded to the lobbying efforts to make things not-as-bad by not disclosing all of the changes...in which case, well-intentioned efforts in a very real way made things worse.
@bvb: My sources in Washington (yes, I have them, and yes, it's cool to say it like that) advise me that there's plenty of inbound flak. More than a few people were taken aback by the devaluation, and there's at least one "horror story" of someone who was unable to book an award before the devaluation because AGR took a particularly long time to post some points. Basically, imagine being at 39,950 and watching a planned 40k award go to 72k or something like that. At least in that case you can argue "should have gone in and bought points since you knew this was coming"...but I digress.
Edit: Two final thoughts:
(1) Yes, the Marketing stuff is probably on "autopilot", but that doesn't mean they couldn't/shouldn't have tried to queue another message. Also...it's a sort of mirror image of the summer incident (when the changes leaked amid an AGR point sale) but having "buy more points" hawked at me in the middle of a catastrophic devaluation with ambiguous-at-best changes to rules is pretty tone-deaf. I'm not going to blame the marketing firm, but it seems almost like someone having a laugh at our expense. I think it's also pretty telling that the only mention I can find in my AGR emails (I don't tend to throw stuff away) was buried in the "Acelabration" email that was ghost-written in Boardman's name. Of course, it should be noted that this email (which went out in January) didn't mention any of the "surprises")...meaning that to at least some extent, AGR did their best to "bury" 2.0 once it became clear that we (I use a very broad "we" here, but I don't know of too many folks that saw 2.0 as more than a mixed bag) weren't buying their line on it.
(2) I think it might be best (for AGR Insider and for us) if AGR Insider's role was transformed solely into dealing with technical issues (e.g. points posting gone awry, website spitting out an apparently errant point total) or posting factual statements about rules and "actual" marketing was left to Marketing.
Last edited by GrayAnderson; Feb 9, 2016 at 10:53 am
Feb 9, 2016, 11:43 am
#422
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: aa
Posts: 14
AGR derails
Thanks for the detailed update, and especially the Washington feedback. I wonder if anyone really cares about us? I used to be a big fan of the program, now it is just another way to burn credit card points. Maybe I'll switch to one of the high-value cash back cards and just bank the money.
Still, my current reservations are for bedroom travel, booked under AGR 2.0. The bedrooms were only about 5,000 more points than a roomette, they were double under the old plan. Maybe I was the beneficiary of a capacity imbalance. :-)
Still, my current reservations are for bedroom travel, booked under AGR 2.0. The bedrooms were only about 5,000 more points than a roomette, they were double under the old plan. Maybe I was the beneficiary of a capacity imbalance. :-)
Feb 9, 2016, 12:46 pm
#423
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
Thanks for the detailed update, and especially the Washington feedback. I wonder if anyone really cares about us? I used to be a big fan of the program, now it is just another way to burn credit card points. Maybe I'll switch to one of the high-value cash back cards and just bank the money.
Still, my current reservations are for bedroom travel, booked under AGR 2.0. The bedrooms were only about 5,000 more points than a roomette, they were double under the old plan. Maybe I was the beneficiary of a capacity imbalance. :-)
Still, my current reservations are for bedroom travel, booked under AGR 2.0. The bedrooms were only about 5,000 more points than a roomette, they were double under the old plan. Maybe I was the beneficiary of a capacity imbalance. :-)
Like you, I used to be a big fan of the program as well. I know I'm undergoing a hard "boomerang", but in my view AGR has really gone from being the best program I use to being about the worst. Some of that is simply selection bias (I tend not to pick programs I think are lousy, obviously) but it's still a massive swing from 1.0 as we knew it to 2.0 as it turned out.
Feb 9, 2016, 3:15 pm
#424
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Albany, NY, USA
Programs: LT Mariott Platinum?, SPG Gold, Hilton Silver, AA Gold, Amtrak Nothing.
Posts: 104
With due respect, the role here at FT is an extra. It is NOT required that AGR maintain a presence here. It is a voluntary thing.
And again, being AGR insider was something that was given over to Anthony when the secretary who used to post under the handle left AGR. It is not his main job.
This is not to suggest that perhaps Amtrak and AGR couldn't be doing a better job. But AGR isn't this large department full of lots of employees. AGR headquarters consists of less than a dozen people. And I have no doubts that Anthony is currently overwhelmed with computer issues, many of which he can't personally fix, but must instead get two different teams of techies to play nice to fix.
As for discuss.amtraktrains.com, aka AmtrakUnlimited, that is a privately owned site. It has NO official connection to Amtrak at all.
And again, being AGR insider was something that was given over to Anthony when the secretary who used to post under the handle left AGR. It is not his main job.
This is not to suggest that perhaps Amtrak and AGR couldn't be doing a better job. But AGR isn't this large department full of lots of employees. AGR headquarters consists of less than a dozen people. And I have no doubts that Anthony is currently overwhelmed with computer issues, many of which he can't personally fix, but must instead get two different teams of techies to play nice to fix.
As for discuss.amtraktrains.com, aka AmtrakUnlimited, that is a privately owned site. It has NO official connection to Amtrak at all.
I won't spend a lot of time on this going back and forth with you. In reading the comments that followed mine, others have done a great job on that.
I will state that I'm well aware that his participation here is a voluntary thing, and also well aware that discuss.amtraktrains is a private site and not connected to Amtrak. In this day and age, the fact that they don't have an active program (more than voluntary) to manage social media is part of the problem.
One more thing. Before retiring and now teaching college level computer science full time as a fun job, I spent over thirty years doing professional software development and working on systems and applications that are used world-wide, 24x7x365. I don't know the internals of the Amtrak AGR 2.0 roll-out or issues, but handling the issues in a forthright manner and managing customer feedback is critically important in today's world. The fact that Amtrak is handling it the way it is just highlights how badly managed they are.
Feb 9, 2016, 4:29 pm
#425
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 33
Social media & web presence are very important in 2016. AGR should have on their website, and Facebook page, and Twitter, and here, and on wherever else they have a web presence a notice of that they are aware of the programming problems, apologize, and state an estimated date by which they expect them to be resolved. Posting points correctly should be resolved first, then merging accounts. The points are fundamental to their business. Merging accounts is a convenince.
I have been a member of AGR for over 14 years. They call this 2.0. Perhaps they can make that statement because the fundamentals are changed. However, if so there was 1.0 and 1.1 and 1.2, each with devaluation of points and rule changes.
One of my most common redemptions had been a last minute ticket between Boston & New York. Under 1.0 that cost 2,500 points, under 1.1 that cost 3,000 points, then less than 4 years ago under 1.2 it was increased to 4,000 points. Now using the current fare and the two highest 'buckets' which is likely what is available at the last minute, they cost 4,517 points if the fare is $131 and 5,138 if the fare is $149. For BOS-WAS the increase in points required is far greater.
My other use was vacations with advance reservations. For those the points required are similar. However there are new cancellation penalties (and no ability to redeem using saver fares).
Finally, there are the 'sneaky changes':
a) Only after the new program was implemented did we learn that depending on your status the redemption rate is worse for some members at some times and those rules have never been promulgated.
b) On November 10 (Post 286 in this thread) I asked, "Will we still be able to redeem 10,000 points for 5 upgrade vouchers?" No answer was posted, nothing about a change was promulgated in any manner, and only by going to the AGR website today, did I learn they are 4 for 10,000 points (2500 points each, rather than the previous 2,000). Under 1.0 they were 2,000 and temporarily 1,667 and you earned based on class of travel. i.e. Buy Acela Express Business class, travel in First Class, earn 750 rather than 500 points for a net cost of 1417 points.
As others have said, AGR 2.0 and it's implementation may become a textbook example of how not to treat customers
I have been a member of AGR for over 14 years. They call this 2.0. Perhaps they can make that statement because the fundamentals are changed. However, if so there was 1.0 and 1.1 and 1.2, each with devaluation of points and rule changes.
One of my most common redemptions had been a last minute ticket between Boston & New York. Under 1.0 that cost 2,500 points, under 1.1 that cost 3,000 points, then less than 4 years ago under 1.2 it was increased to 4,000 points. Now using the current fare and the two highest 'buckets' which is likely what is available at the last minute, they cost 4,517 points if the fare is $131 and 5,138 if the fare is $149. For BOS-WAS the increase in points required is far greater.
My other use was vacations with advance reservations. For those the points required are similar. However there are new cancellation penalties (and no ability to redeem using saver fares).
Finally, there are the 'sneaky changes':
a) Only after the new program was implemented did we learn that depending on your status the redemption rate is worse for some members at some times and those rules have never been promulgated.
b) On November 10 (Post 286 in this thread) I asked, "Will we still be able to redeem 10,000 points for 5 upgrade vouchers?" No answer was posted, nothing about a change was promulgated in any manner, and only by going to the AGR website today, did I learn they are 4 for 10,000 points (2500 points each, rather than the previous 2,000). Under 1.0 they were 2,000 and temporarily 1,667 and you earned based on class of travel. i.e. Buy Acela Express Business class, travel in First Class, earn 750 rather than 500 points for a net cost of 1417 points.
As others have said, AGR 2.0 and it's implementation may become a textbook example of how not to treat customers
Last edited by BostonNewYork; Feb 9, 2016 at 4:54 pm Reason: Spelling & grammar
Feb 9, 2016, 5:09 pm
#426
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
Yeah, I seem to recall that the account mergers were going to be their "shining star" for this whole operation. Truth be told (and I may have some bias as an SE member), if they had never merged the accounts I would never have cared. Unless it was a super-peak time I usually got through to an agent within one minute (I remember sort-of showing off one time...I told a friend I was traveling "Watch...I'll call AGR as soon as we're wheels down and have this award booked before the door opens at the gate" and delivered).
I'm not even sure I consider the merger to be a positive in the long run; I expect it will eventually turn into an excuse to either start cutting at the phone offices or to introduce a penalty of some sort if you book by phone (IIRC there was an attempt to do this a few years ago, following introducing e-tickets, that collapsed under customer blowback). In the meantime, the "convenience factor" is incidental at best.
Actually, I have to wonder if that isn't what happened: Amtrak got blown off of their last attempt to pull a major trick like this (back in 2012/3):
http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/inde...icy-rescinded/
Some of the posts here are very prescient. Seems that they decided that lying to us in advance while rolling the changes in with other stuff was easier. B......s.
I'm not even sure I consider the merger to be a positive in the long run; I expect it will eventually turn into an excuse to either start cutting at the phone offices or to introduce a penalty of some sort if you book by phone (IIRC there was an attempt to do this a few years ago, following introducing e-tickets, that collapsed under customer blowback). In the meantime, the "convenience factor" is incidental at best.
Actually, I have to wonder if that isn't what happened: Amtrak got blown off of their last attempt to pull a major trick like this (back in 2012/3):
http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/inde...icy-rescinded/
Some of the posts here are very prescient. Seems that they decided that lying to us in advance while rolling the changes in with other stuff was easier. B......s.
Last edited by GrayAnderson; Feb 9, 2016 at 5:16 pm
Feb 9, 2016, 6:14 pm
#427
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 289
Unless you're a high-value NEC customer, the obvious answer is "NO." I've moved most of my credit card use to a 2% card. I'm burning my AGR points on bedroom suites (under the old dispensation), and my American Airlines miles on trans-Atlantic first class. No need to wait for another devaluation.
Feb 10, 2016, 2:42 pm
#428
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 87
AMTRAK GUEST REWARDS IN CATASTROPHIC DERAILMENT
Washington - Reports are coming in of a catastrophic derailment. Amtrak Guest Rewards service #2, en route to its next stop, derailed in the station after colliding with a Reality truck which had crossed onto the tracks in the station yard. The collision was then compounded when a local IT service, operating on the neighboring track, plowed into the wreck. Preliminary investigations have suggested a major failure on the part of the signalling system, which led the engineer (as well as many passengers who were eagerly awaiting their arrival) to believe the track ahead was clear.
"I don't know what happened" said one rider, reeling from shock. "We were assured that the way ahead was clear by the crew, and then POW!" The crew has expressed a similar reaction, noting that they had been told by dispatch that the tracks ahead were also clear.
The derailed train plowed into the station, bringing the roof down on the platform. Damages are still being assessed, but given the extent of the damage they are estimated to ultimately be in the millions of points. Additionally, the tracks are reported to be a mess due to a leak in several of the cars. "It's going to take a while to clean all of ths up," commented one of the cleanup crew. "I don't think I've ever seen this much debris anywhere, and nobody seems to know where it came from. I mean, did nobody check the manifest before sending this train out?!?"
Service to the station is continuing on other platforms, and efforts are underway to restore at least some lost functionality in the interim. However, due to persistent issues resulting from the derailment travelers are being advised to consider other methods of travel. "I hear Delta has comparable program to this" one source said on condition of anonymity.
(Note: This is, obviously, satire. I apologize if anyone not employed by AGR is sincerely offended by this. Also, I've been sitting on it for a few days...but I think two working weeks without a formal clarification/announcement on the IT-side issues or an apology for the rest of the problems is long enough.)
Washington - Reports are coming in of a catastrophic derailment. Amtrak Guest Rewards service #2, en route to its next stop, derailed in the station after colliding with a Reality truck which had crossed onto the tracks in the station yard. The collision was then compounded when a local IT service, operating on the neighboring track, plowed into the wreck. Preliminary investigations have suggested a major failure on the part of the signalling system, which led the engineer (as well as many passengers who were eagerly awaiting their arrival) to believe the track ahead was clear.
"I don't know what happened" said one rider, reeling from shock. "We were assured that the way ahead was clear by the crew, and then POW!" The crew has expressed a similar reaction, noting that they had been told by dispatch that the tracks ahead were also clear.
The derailed train plowed into the station, bringing the roof down on the platform. Damages are still being assessed, but given the extent of the damage they are estimated to ultimately be in the millions of points. Additionally, the tracks are reported to be a mess due to a leak in several of the cars. "It's going to take a while to clean all of ths up," commented one of the cleanup crew. "I don't think I've ever seen this much debris anywhere, and nobody seems to know where it came from. I mean, did nobody check the manifest before sending this train out?!?"
Service to the station is continuing on other platforms, and efforts are underway to restore at least some lost functionality in the interim. However, due to persistent issues resulting from the derailment travelers are being advised to consider other methods of travel. "I hear Delta has comparable program to this" one source said on condition of anonymity.
(Note: This is, obviously, satire. I apologize if anyone not employed by AGR is sincerely offended by this. Also, I've been sitting on it for a few days...but I think two working weeks without a formal clarification/announcement on the IT-side issues or an apology for the rest of the problems is long enough.)
Feb 11, 2016, 10:04 am
#429
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: PSC
Programs: Hilton Diamond/IHG Platinum/DL Plutononium
Posts: 1,728
There clearly is an enormous IT glitch or AGR staff is flat-out dumb. To book a ticket tonight NYP-PVD they are showing the following:
- Train 2168 (5:00 departure) - Cash Fare: $190 - Points: 11,115 (1.71 cpm)
- Train 2170 (6:00 departure) - Case Fare: $190 Points: 7,410 (2.56 cpm)
Same price. 1 Hour apart. Day of departure, 33% point difference....
- Train 2168 (5:00 departure) - Cash Fare: $190 - Points: 11,115 (1.71 cpm)
- Train 2170 (6:00 departure) - Case Fare: $190 Points: 7,410 (2.56 cpm)
Same price. 1 Hour apart. Day of departure, 33% point difference....
Feb 11, 2016, 10:58 am
#430
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
There clearly is an enormous IT glitch or AGR staff is flat-out dumb. To book a ticket tonight NYP-PVD they are showing the following:
- Train 2168 (5:00 departure) - Cash Fare: $190 - Points: 11,115 (1.71 cpm)
- Train 2170 (6:00 departure) - Case Fare: $190 Points: 7,410 (2.56 cpm)
Same price. 1 Hour apart. Day of departure, 33% point difference....
- Train 2168 (5:00 departure) - Cash Fare: $190 - Points: 11,115 (1.71 cpm)
- Train 2170 (6:00 departure) - Case Fare: $190 Points: 7,410 (2.56 cpm)
Same price. 1 Hour apart. Day of departure, 33% point difference....
The relevant section of the AGR website:
Q: Why do peak travel times require more points?
A: During peak travel periods when demand is high and capacity is limited, some departures are available at a higher point cost.
A: During peak travel periods when demand is high and capacity is limited, some departures are available at a higher point cost.
Feb 11, 2016, 3:15 pm
#431
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
I've heard rumors of penalties of up to 100% for booking the "wrong" train. 50% seems to be pretty common, so it's possible (even likely) that they've established several buckets of penalties.
Feb 11, 2016, 3:47 pm
#432
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: Amtrak Select Plus, Marriott Platinum, Marriott Lifetime Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,123
Trains 2122, 2126
30,810 points
$395
Train 2124
13,260 points
$340
Feb 11, 2016, 4:56 pm
#433
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive
Posts: 4,098
Some crazy penalties, indeed. This is for Acela F (WAS-NYP) for tomorrow. The 5:00 PM and 7:00 PM points prices are insane as compared to the 6:00 PM, even though fare difference in dollars is minimal.
Trains 2122, 2126
30,810 points
$395
Train 2124
13,260 points
$340
Trains 2122, 2126
30,810 points
$395
Train 2124
13,260 points
$340
Feb 11, 2016, 11:23 pm
#434
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
Yeah. 78 PPD on the 1700 and 1900 trains, 39 PPD on the 1800. 100% penalty.
As far as I can tell, the 50% and 100% penalty buckets are the main ones. Has anyone seen any others?
As far as I can tell, the 50% and 100% penalty buckets are the main ones. Has anyone seen any others?
Feb 12, 2016, 5:11 am
#435
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: CT/NYC Tri-state
Posts: 96
There clearly is an enormous IT glitch or AGR staff is flat-out dumb. To book a ticket tonight NYP-PVD they are showing the following:
- Train 2168 (5:00 departure) - Cash Fare: $190 - Points: 11,115 (1.71 cpm)
- Train 2170 (6:00 departure) - Case Fare: $190 Points: 7,410 (2.56 cpm)
Same price. 1 Hour apart. Day of departure, 33% point difference....
- Train 2168 (5:00 departure) - Cash Fare: $190 - Points: 11,115 (1.71 cpm)
- Train 2170 (6:00 departure) - Case Fare: $190 Points: 7,410 (2.56 cpm)
Same price. 1 Hour apart. Day of departure, 33% point difference....