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Introducing the next stop for Amtrak Guest Rewards

Old Aug 31, 2015, 6:08 am
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Last edit by: beltway
Changes to Amtrak Guest Rewards in 2016

Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.

Table of Contents
Earning Status
As in the past, members earn Tier Qualifying Points (TQP) for paid travel at the rate of 2 TQP per dollar. With the 2016 changes, however, AGR has eliminated
  • the 100 TQP minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer TQP), and
  • the Acela "select city pairs" TQP minimums for Business class (formerly 500 TQP) and First class (formerly 750 TQP); see post #83
In addition, AGR now provides new class-of-service TQP bonuses: 25% for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. (As noted below, passengers will also earn redeemable AGR points in the same amount.)

The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same:
  • Select - 5,000 TQP
  • Select Plus - 10,000 TQP
  • Select Executive - 20,000 TQP
Benefits for each status level, including the Tier Bonus on cash fares (see below), remain the same.
Earning AGR Points Redeemable for Travel
Members continue to earn redeemable AGR points for paid travel (except as discussed below in this section) at the rate of 2 points per dollar, plus a new 25% point bonus for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. Sleeper-car tickets do not earn a bonus.

With the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates
  • the 100 point minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer points), and
  • the Acela "select city pairs" minimums for Business class (previously 500 points) and First class (previously 750 points)
In addition to base points, members with status continue to earn Tier Bonus redeemable AGR points (i.e., not TQP) at the same level as in 2015:
  • Select - 25%
  • Select Plus - 50%
  • Select Executive - 100%
As was the case before, members do not earn points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redeeming for Travel
For 2016, redemption rules have changed drastically. AGR has discontinued its fixed-point awards and zone system, transitioning instead to a revenue-based system. Under the new program, the points required for an award ticket--including multi-ride tickets and monthly passes--are, with some exceptions noted below, proportional to the cash price of the ticket.

In general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
  • Minimum award pricing: Regardless of the cash fare, a non-Acela award ticket costs a minimum of 800 AGR points. As a result, using AGR points for such tickets with a cash price under $24 (e.g., LNC-PHL or BWI-WAS) results in lower yields.

    Acela award tickets cost a minimum of 4,000 points. Using AGR points for Acela tickets costing less than $103 results in lower yields.

  • No redemption for Saver awards: Per AGR's FT representative, members cannot redeem points for tickets at the least-expensive Saver rate. For instance, even if a $52 Saver WAS-NYP cash fare is available, points can be used only to purchase tickets at the equivalent of an $86 Value fare or higher (resulting in a yield of 1.75 cents/point at best).

  • Peak travel dates/times: As discussed below under "Blackout Dates," Amtrak has quietly introduced a "peak travel" penalty in which certain high-demand itineraries (not published in advance) will cost 50% or even 100% more points than would normally correspond to the available cash fare.

  • Most discount fares inapplicable: Under the 2016 program, AGR points are redeemable for tickets based only on the Adult or Child price, and not at the equivalent of Senior, AAA, or other discounted fares. (See post #83.)

  • As was the case before, members may not redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Note: Reward tickets booked before 1/24/16 are subject to the new redemption policy if modified or canceled on or after that date.

Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.

Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.

Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.

Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.

Blackout dates eliminated: On the plus side, AGR will eliminate award redemption blackout dates and Acela time-of-day restrictions. When the 2016 changes were announced, AGR claimed that blackout dates were being eliminated. As of January 24, 2016, the AGR website still makes that claim. Unfortunately, it is a lie.

On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
you may find limited availability on peak travel dates or times and it is possible that not every seat will be available for redemption. When redeeming points for trips during peak travel dates and times, some itineraries may be available only to our Select Plus and Select Executive members.
Amtrak quietly added similar language to the website in early February 2016. The website also indicates that the point costs for "peak travel" dates and times may be increased in addition to any increase resulting resulting from a higher cash fare. To date, additional points costs of 50% and 100% have been observed on certain itineraries.

Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.

Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.

No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)

For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
CAUTION: The new policy is worded to imply that reservation "modification" and "cancellation" are treated differently. A "modification" ostensibly triggers a penalty only of "any fare difference returned to member," implying that changing to a more expensive fare should involve no penalty and changing to a less expensive fare should be subject to a penalty only on the refunded points difference.

Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
For complete details on the 2016 change rules, including the special rules for multi-ride tickets and monthly passes, see the AGR website.

Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
Points Expiration
AGR altered its expiration policy, which previously required paid travel once every 36 months. Effective August 27, 2015, any points-earning or redemption activity will reset the 36-month clock. Effective April 2019, points expire after 24 months of inactivity.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015.
Post-Rollout Issues/Unknowns
  • Class-of-service bonuses have been posting initially as non-TQPs, although subsequent data points suggest there is currently a delay of ~12 days in proper crediting.
  • Agents have claimed that any change incurs the 10/20% penalty (up to and including asking for a changed room assignment) on the full value of the ticket, rather than just anything involving a reduction in price being penalized 10/20% on the changed portion

It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
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Introducing the next stop for Amtrak Guest Rewards

Old Jan 25, 2016, 8:19 am
  #346  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive
Posts: 4,068
Agreed that this "peak surcharge" is quite a surprise given all the communications from AGR up to now, and definitely reduces the value of AGR points relative to reasonable expectations based on previous communications.
physioprof is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2016, 8:36 am
  #347  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
I'm sticking to short-and-sweet with this post as well:
Before any weasel-word cover is granted to AGR on this, in post 83 of this thread, Anthony explicitly stated, and I quote directly in reference to the Capitol Limited:

"1. Today, a coach seat on the Capitol Limited is redeemed at 8,000 points (a two-zone award), and in the new structure, the same seat could be redeemed between 3,312 and 6,521 points depending on fare chosen. Today, a roomette is redeemed at 20,000 points (a two-zone award), and in the new structure, the same room could be redeemed between 8,901 and 17,319 points. (Even if you add a second passenger to the room, the maximum possible rate is 20,631 points, very close to today’s 20,000 rate and it would certainly be cheaper than today with any of the four possible lower accommodation charges).

"2. Today, a bedroom is redeemed at 40,000 points (a two-zone award), and in the new structure, the same room could be redeemed between 13,490 and 27,531 points! (Even if you add a second passenger to the room, the maximum possible rate is 30,843 points, over 9,000 points less than today.)"

Logged out of Amtrak.com (so as to get the "peon price"), when I enter a booking date of 03/25/16 I get a price of 26,358 points for one person in a roomette and 33,120 for two people in a roomette as well as 34,362 for one person in a bedroom and 41,124 for two people in a bedroom. Notwithstanding a possible (modest) fare hike in the interim, the price I just quoted you for a roomette for one from Amtrak.com is 52.2% higher than the highest price Anthony quoted us and the roomette for two is about 60% higher.

Setting aside any allowance for weasel-wording, had Anthony been honest he would have given us a FAR broader range and said something about surge pricing at that point. For whatever reason he did not; while I know that his posts here are not intended as full and complete coverage of policy, in this particular case there is a direct, definite, and concrete contradiction between what Anthony said and what has actually transpired.

And no, I'm not going to buy "We decided to do this at the last minute". The odds of this NOT being premeditated seem, to me, to be utterly remote.
GrayAnderson is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2016, 8:43 am
  #348  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: United Global Services, Amtrak Select Executive
Posts: 4,068
To be fair, independent of when the decision was made to implement this "peak" reward scheme, we have no idea when Anthony first became aware of it. This wouldn't be the first time that a corporate spokesperson was given incomplete information by higher ups to relay to the public, either through incompetence or intent.

And in this case, I have a lot of trouble imagining any scenario under which this was intentionally hidden until roll-out. Gotta be incompetence, and probably not Anthony's.
physioprof is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2016, 9:07 am
  #349  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: BOS
Posts: 2,309
I think you are being far too kind in saying you can't imagine this was intentionally hidden.

Remember there was a calculator on the website which had you put in a fare/route and you were told the cost. That calculator clearly used the .029/.0256 ratio that is described in the wiki above, and did not contemplate any kind of peak/premium pricing.

In my mind there are two possibilities, either the peak pricing was intentionally hidden all along, or someone (a new hire from Delta no doubt) decided to implement this enhancement more recently and did not think it needed to be communicated (i.e. no one would notice?!). That seems pretty intentional to me.

I think the possibility that so much effort was put into communicating the changes, drafting detailed new program rules and FAQ's and creating a award calculator engine, but all the people who worked on that were just incompetent and forgot to include the peak premium piece is absurd - and an insult to incompetents everywhere.
BeantownFlyer is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2016, 10:54 am
  #350  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
Originally Posted by BeantownFlyer
I think you are being far too kind in saying you can't imagine this was intentionally hidden.

Remember there was a calculator on the website which had you put in a fare/route and you were told the cost. That calculator clearly used the .029/.0256 ratio that is described in the wiki above, and did not contemplate any kind of peak/premium pricing.

In my mind there are two possibilities, either the peak pricing was intentionally hidden all along, or someone (a new hire from Delta no doubt) decided to implement this enhancement more recently and did not think it needed to be communicated (i.e. no one would notice?!). That seems pretty intentional to me.

I think the possibility that so much effort was put into communicating the changes, drafting detailed new program rules and FAQ's and creating a award calculator engine, but all the people who worked on that were just incompetent and forgot to include the peak premium piece is absurd - and an insult to incompetents everywhere.
Plus, I would think that the decision would've had to come earlier, to allow time to program the software for this. Don't know how much of a job it is to implement the change this way as opposed to without the blackout times, but if Amtrak is anything like the airlines, their software changes never seem to happen quickly or easily.
84fiero is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2016, 12:38 pm
  #351  
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Originally Posted by physioprof
And in this case, I have a lot of trouble imagining any scenario under which this was intentionally hidden until roll-out. Gotta be incompetence, and probably not Anthony's.
To paraphrase Arthur C. Clarke, any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
beltway is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2016, 1:04 pm
  #352  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ONT
Programs: AGR, UA, AA
Posts: 476
Using the example of the Capitol Limited, it is clear the multiples are out of wack. For instance, an end to end, Chicago to DC trip:

3/24: $98 seat, $264 roomette, $498 bedroom
3,381 pts seat, 9,108 pt roomette, 34,362 pt bedroom

3/25: $98 seat, $325 roomette, $400 bedroom
3,381 pts seat, 22,425 pt roomette, 13,800 pt bedroom

For certain trips, it is arbitrarily doubling the number of points necessary - when the fare goes above a certain bucket, or for dates that Amtrak doesn't like. Southwest does something similar with their ranges (anywhere from 55-80 points/dollar depending on fare bucket), but not to a 2X level. Why have a "fare calculator" before implementation when AGR doesn't observe it?
calwatch is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2016, 1:15 pm
  #353  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,750
SOOOOOOOOOOOO glad I cashed out on Saturday under the old rules, and am doing my DEN-EMY-SAN trip this march before the cost went up to a bazillion (or x2?) points.
JoeBas is offline  
Old Jan 25, 2016, 5:27 pm
  #354  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: Amtrak
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by calwatch
Using the example of the Capitol Limited, it is clear the multiples are out of wack. For instance, an end to end, Chicago to DC trip:

3/24: $98 seat, $264 roomette, $498 bedroom
3,381 pts seat, 9,108 pt roomette, 34,362 pt bedroom

3/25: $98 seat, $325 roomette, $400 bedroom
3,381 pts seat, 22,425 pt roomette, 13,800 pt bedroom
No mystery here. 3/25/16 on the CL is peak period for roomettes, but low period for bedrooms. What could be simpler?
jobtraklite is offline  
Old Jan 26, 2016, 2:06 am
  #355  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: EWR/PHL/JFK
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Cool

Originally Posted by jobtraklite
No mystery here. 3/25/16 on the CL is peak period for roomettes, but low period for bedrooms. What could be simpler?
Can't tell if this is sarcasm
lensovet is offline  
Old Jan 26, 2016, 2:36 am
  #356  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
Originally Posted by lensovet
Can't tell if this is sarcasm
Sarcasm would be calling AGR 2.0 a "tune up" or an "improvement".
GrayAnderson is offline  
Old Jan 26, 2016, 12:21 pm
  #357  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 308
AGR 2.0 summarized:
-Awards always available, except when they're not.
-Awards always priced consistently, except when they're not
-Trains always on time, except...
Frequent Miler is offline  
Old Jan 28, 2016, 10:43 am
  #358  
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New York, NY, USA
Programs: HH Diamond, Amtrak Exec
Posts: 3,262
Originally Posted by AGR Insider
  • The 25% and 50% earn bonuses for Business class and First class seating, respectively, replace the existing Select City Pair earning structure on Acela. This means Acela trips now earn bonus points no matter where you sit or where you travel. In addition, as a new benefit, Business class on all other Amtrak services will also receive a 25% earn bonus. The 25% and 50% class of service earn bonuses --- will --- be tier qualifying. Members who will earn fewer points in the new structure will notice that redeeming for the same trip may require fewer points, as well.
I'm hoping that the above bolded & underlined sentence is still correct & hasn't been changed and that the recent posting to my account is the result of a computer issues during rollout of the new program.

But my recent trip this past Sunday did not count the 25% BC bonus as TQP's, it only posted as points earned.
AlanB is offline  
Old Jan 28, 2016, 11:39 am
  #359  
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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AGR as Darth Vader

Please keep us posted, Alan.

It is interesting to see how many times AGR can assume the role of Darth Vader saying, "I have altered the terms of our agreement. Pray I do not alter them again."
serpens is offline  
Old Jan 28, 2016, 12:00 pm
  #360  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: Amtrak Select Plus, Marriott Platinum, Marriott Lifetime Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,123
Originally Posted by AlanB
I'm hoping that the above bolded & underlined sentence is still correct & hasn't been changed and that the recent posting to my account is the result of a computer issues during rollout of the new program.

But my recent trip this past Sunday did not count the 25% BC bonus as TQP's, it only posted as points earned.
The "enhancements" are coming even faster than at Delta SkyMiles.
vatraveler is offline  

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