Aug 31, 2015, 6:08 am
Last edit by: beltway
Changes to Amtrak Guest Rewards in 2016
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
AGR altered its expiration policy, which previously required paid travel once every 36 months. Effective August 27, 2015, any points-earning or redemption activity will reset the 36-month clock. Effective April 2019, points expire after 24 months of inactivity.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015. Post-Rollout Issues/Unknowns
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
As in the past, members earn Tier Qualifying Points (TQP) for paid travel at the rate of 2 TQP per dollar. With the 2016 changes, however, AGR has eliminated In addition, AGR now provides new class-of-service TQP bonuses: 25% for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. (As noted below, passengers will also earn redeemable AGR points in the same amount.)
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same: Benefits for each status level, including the Tier Bonus on cash fares (see below), remain the same.
Earning AGR Points Redeemable for Travel- the 100 TQP minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer TQP), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" TQP minimums for Business class (formerly 500 TQP) and First class (formerly 750 TQP); see post #83
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same:
- Select - 5,000 TQP
- Select Plus - 10,000 TQP
- Select Executive - 20,000 TQP
Members continue to earn redeemable AGR points for paid travel (except as discussed below in this section) at the rate of 2 points per dollar, plus a new 25% point bonus for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. Sleeper-car tickets do not earn a bonus.
With the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates In addition to base points, members with status continue to earn Tier Bonus redeemable AGR points (i.e., not TQP) at the same level as in 2015: As was the case before, members do not earn points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redeeming for TravelWith the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates
- the 100 point minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer points), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" minimums for Business class (previously 500 points) and First class (previously 750 points)
- Select - 25%
- Select Plus - 50%
- Select Executive - 100%
For 2016, redemption rules have changed drastically. AGR has discontinued its fixed-point awards and zone system, transitioning instead to a revenue-based system. Under the new program, the points required for an award ticket--including multi-ride tickets and monthly passes--are, with some exceptions noted below, proportional to the cash price of the ticket.
In general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
Note: Reward tickets booked before 1/24/16 are subject to the new redemption policy if modified or canceled on or after that date.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dateseliminated: On the plus side, AGR will eliminate award redemption blackout dates and Acela time-of-day restrictions. When the 2016 changes were announced, AGR claimed that blackout dates were being eliminated. As of January 24, 2016, the AGR website still makes that claim. Unfortunately, it is a lie.
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
Amtrak quietly added similar language to the website in early February 2016. The website also indicates that the point costs for "peak travel" dates and times may be increased in addition to any increase resulting resulting from a higher cash fare. To date, additional points costs of 50% and 100% have been observed on certain itineraries.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
Points ExpirationIn general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
- Minimum award pricing: Regardless of the cash fare, a non-Acela award ticket costs a minimum of 800 AGR points. As a result, using AGR points for such tickets with a cash price under $24 (e.g., LNC-PHL or BWI-WAS) results in lower yields.
Acela award tickets cost a minimum of 4,000 points. Using AGR points for Acela tickets costing less than $103 results in lower yields.
- No redemption for Saver awards: Per AGR's FT representative, members cannot redeem points for tickets at the least-expensive Saver rate. For instance, even if a $52 Saver WAS-NYP cash fare is available, points can be used only to purchase tickets at the equivalent of an $86 Value fare or higher (resulting in a yield of 1.75 cents/point at best).
- Peak travel dates/times: As discussed below under "Blackout Dates," Amtrak has quietly introduced a "peak travel" penalty in which certain high-demand itineraries (not published in advance) will cost 50% or even 100% more points than would normally correspond to the available cash fare.
- Most discount fares inapplicable: Under the 2016 program, AGR points are redeemable for tickets based only on the Adult or Child price, and not at the equivalent of Senior, AAA, or other discounted fares. (See post #83.)
- As was the case before, members may not redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dates
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
you may find limited availability on peak travel dates or times and it is possible that not every seat will be available for redemption. When redeeming points for trips during peak travel dates and times, some itineraries may be available only to our Select Plus and Select Executive members.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
CAUTION: The new policy is worded to imply that reservation "modification" and "cancellation" are treated differently. A "modification" ostensibly triggers a penalty only of "any fare difference returned to member," implying that changing to a more expensive fare should involve no penalty and changing to a less expensive fare should be subject to a penalty only on the refunded points difference.
Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
For complete details on the 2016 change rules, including the special rules for multi-ride tickets and monthly passes, see the AGR website.Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015.
- Class-of-service bonuses have been posting initially as non-TQPs, although subsequent data points suggest there is currently a delay of ~12 days in proper crediting.
- Agents have claimed that any change incurs the 10/20% penalty (up to and including asking for a changed room assignment) on the full value of the ticket, rather than just anything involving a reduction in price being penalized 10/20% on the changed portion
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Introducing the next stop for Amtrak Guest Rewards
Feb 23, 2016, 3:06 pm
#466
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: MSY
Programs: BA GfL
Posts: 5,926
If he has either AGR credit card, his points will not expire as long as the account is open.
Otherwise, any point earning or redemption activity on his AGR account will extend the expiration date to 36 months from the date of activity.
Source: https://amtrakguestrewards.com/faqs/show/pointsexpire
See also: http://agr.amtrak.com/apply/
Otherwise, any point earning or redemption activity on his AGR account will extend the expiration date to 36 months from the date of activity.
Source: https://amtrakguestrewards.com/faqs/show/pointsexpire
See also: http://agr.amtrak.com/apply/
Feb 24, 2016, 6:18 pm
#468
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 87
Trying to show how rude you can be "shows contempt for every other thread participant".
Feb 29, 2016, 1:11 pm
#469
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: AGR
Posts: 1
Two things:
(1) Thanks for putting together the wiki. Now that we know that the redemption minimum is 800 points per segment, not per trip, can you update it?
(2) If I have to cancel a trip but don't want to pay the 10% redeposit fee, can I simply "modify" my ticket for another same-priced trip 11 months out, then when I'm ready to travel again "re-modify" that trip to the one I actually want to take?
I understand the need to get rid of zones, but the per-segment minimum seems unnecessarily punitive to those of us out west who have to take lots of buses to get to the train. And the punitive cancellation penalties detract from one of the few advantages that Amtrak has over flying. Amtrak should be leveraging its strengths, not eliminating them.
(1) Thanks for putting together the wiki. Now that we know that the redemption minimum is 800 points per segment, not per trip, can you update it?
(2) If I have to cancel a trip but don't want to pay the 10% redeposit fee, can I simply "modify" my ticket for another same-priced trip 11 months out, then when I'm ready to travel again "re-modify" that trip to the one I actually want to take?
I understand the need to get rid of zones, but the per-segment minimum seems unnecessarily punitive to those of us out west who have to take lots of buses to get to the train. And the punitive cancellation penalties detract from one of the few advantages that Amtrak has over flying. Amtrak should be leveraging its strengths, not eliminating them.
Feb 29, 2016, 1:35 pm
#470
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: aa
Posts: 14
Report from the Road
I considered the original AGR 2.0 to be mostly a wash, benefit-wise. I was happy to see the zone lines go. And accepting cost-based redemption in exchange for no blackout dates seemed okay as long as the redemption rate was reasonable.
Needless to say, none of us were happy with the high points or no points rates that were snuck in on us. We should have suspected something when they didn't simply publish a value for points, making us use the opaque points calculator.
But life goes on, and I was able to book three overnight sleeper segments for pretty reasonable point rates. And for two of the segments the cost for a full bedroom was only about 25% more than a roomette, well less than the 100% increase on the old system. My son and I enjoyed taking the train from NYC to Washington, then the Capitol Limited to Chicago, then the Zephyr from Denver back to NYC. I could really get used to bedrooms! We had a great time and got a lot of transportation and meals for free, if one considers the kickback on credit card spending free.
I was still miffed about the changes, though, and decided to look into getting a travel credit card, where you can apply points earned to any form of travel, simply as a credit on your bill. Seemed like a much simpler idea to me rather than worry about all the new restrictions.
So I looked at the Bank of America travel card. 1.5 points for each dollar spent, no restrictions, no annual fee. Sounded good. Then I looked up what you got for one point. Uh, 1 point = .01 dollar, or one cent a point. On Amtrak, I'm getting 2.9 cents a point. So my spending is worth just about twice as much on the Amtrak card. Not such a bad deal.
And I don't mind paying the annual fee because I can easily use the annual companion coupon and the business class upgrade coupon for more than the fee. Plus I get a free visit to the lounge, and all the pretzels the kid can scarf.
So I wish they hadn't been so dishonest about the changes, and I wish they hadn't messed up the change/cancellation fee, but overall I'm still riding around the country in a roomette or bedroom for free, and that ain't bad.
Needless to say, none of us were happy with the high points or no points rates that were snuck in on us. We should have suspected something when they didn't simply publish a value for points, making us use the opaque points calculator.
But life goes on, and I was able to book three overnight sleeper segments for pretty reasonable point rates. And for two of the segments the cost for a full bedroom was only about 25% more than a roomette, well less than the 100% increase on the old system. My son and I enjoyed taking the train from NYC to Washington, then the Capitol Limited to Chicago, then the Zephyr from Denver back to NYC. I could really get used to bedrooms! We had a great time and got a lot of transportation and meals for free, if one considers the kickback on credit card spending free.
I was still miffed about the changes, though, and decided to look into getting a travel credit card, where you can apply points earned to any form of travel, simply as a credit on your bill. Seemed like a much simpler idea to me rather than worry about all the new restrictions.
So I looked at the Bank of America travel card. 1.5 points for each dollar spent, no restrictions, no annual fee. Sounded good. Then I looked up what you got for one point. Uh, 1 point = .01 dollar, or one cent a point. On Amtrak, I'm getting 2.9 cents a point. So my spending is worth just about twice as much on the Amtrak card. Not such a bad deal.
And I don't mind paying the annual fee because I can easily use the annual companion coupon and the business class upgrade coupon for more than the fee. Plus I get a free visit to the lounge, and all the pretzels the kid can scarf.
So I wish they hadn't been so dishonest about the changes, and I wish they hadn't messed up the change/cancellation fee, but overall I'm still riding around the country in a roomette or bedroom for free, and that ain't bad.
Mar 1, 2016, 1:14 pm
#471
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
Two things:
(1) Thanks for putting together the wiki. Now that we know that the redemption minimum is 800 points per segment, not per trip, can you update it?
(2) If I have to cancel a trip but don't want to pay the 10% redeposit fee, can I simply "modify" my ticket for another same-priced trip 11 months out, then when I'm ready to travel again "re-modify" that trip to the one I actually want to take?
I understand the need to get rid of zones, but the per-segment minimum seems unnecessarily punitive to those of us out west who have to take lots of buses to get to the train. And the punitive cancellation penalties detract from one of the few advantages that Amtrak has over flying. Amtrak should be leveraging its strengths, not eliminating them.
(1) Thanks for putting together the wiki. Now that we know that the redemption minimum is 800 points per segment, not per trip, can you update it?
(2) If I have to cancel a trip but don't want to pay the 10% redeposit fee, can I simply "modify" my ticket for another same-priced trip 11 months out, then when I'm ready to travel again "re-modify" that trip to the one I actually want to take?
I understand the need to get rid of zones, but the per-segment minimum seems unnecessarily punitive to those of us out west who have to take lots of buses to get to the train. And the punitive cancellation penalties detract from one of the few advantages that Amtrak has over flying. Amtrak should be leveraging its strengths, not eliminating them.
Mar 1, 2016, 4:35 pm
#472
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: PDX
Programs: DL DM, AS MVP 100K, Amtrak peon, Colbert Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 4,534
FWIW, the old policy of soft landings still seems to be in effect under the new program, which is nice. After 8 of the previous 10 years as S+, my Amtrak travels dropped like a rock last year (and since I moved, my hometown service is now a once-daily long-distance route). Woke up this morning to find out I was still Select and tier coupons deposited in my account. ^ Not sure if a member packet will be mailed under these circumstances.
Jul 22, 2016, 11:18 pm
#473
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
Unbelievable: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/amtra...8-15-16-a.html
Sep 11, 2016, 7:31 am
#474
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
Two comments:
1) I've updated the wiki to add a TOC with internal links to individual sections for greater ease of navigation.
2) Has Amtrak ever announced the specifics of the points & cash program promised for 2016? I haven't found anything.
1) I've updated the wiki to add a TOC with internal links to individual sections for greater ease of navigation.
2) Has Amtrak ever announced the specifics of the points & cash program promised for 2016? I haven't found anything.
Sep 11, 2016, 7:36 am
#475
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,194
Sep 11, 2016, 6:46 pm
#476
In Memoriam
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New York, NY, USA
Programs: HH Diamond, Amtrak Exec
Posts: 3,262
Sep 22, 2016, 4:08 pm
#478
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: PHL
Programs: AA(PPro), UA, AGR, BW(Plat), HH, WoH, MB(S)
Posts: 778
So basically, you get 2 points per dollar for your purchase like any other purchase, and the value of those two points per dollar depends on how Amtrak prices trips for redemptions.
Sep 23, 2016, 10:56 am
#479
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 12
Maybe the better way to look at it is that monthly and multi-rides earn 2 points per dollar, and those points can be redeemed at a rate of 34.5 points per dollar for some regular trains (which drives the 2.9 cents per point), or 39 points per dollar for some Acela trains (2.56 cents per point), or something less, maybe a lot less depending on Amtrak's undefined application of surge pricing.
So basically, you get 2 points per dollar for your purchase like any other purchase, and the value of those two points per dollar depends on how Amtrak prices trips for redemptions.
So basically, you get 2 points per dollar for your purchase like any other purchase, and the value of those two points per dollar depends on how Amtrak prices trips for redemptions.
Does the 34.5 points per dollar rate apply to monthly pass redemptions as well, or is there a different rate?
Last edited by jsenn; Sep 23, 2016 at 12:17 pm
Sep 24, 2016, 7:22 pm
#480
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 311
It was stated originally that you could, but I've never tried it. I have purchased 10-ride tickets, though, and there is no place on the page to use points, so I'd imagine you have to call.