Aug 31, 2015, 6:08 am
Last edit by: beltway
Changes to Amtrak Guest Rewards in 2016
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
AGR altered its expiration policy, which previously required paid travel once every 36 months. Effective August 27, 2015, any points-earning or redemption activity will reset the 36-month clock. Effective April 2019, points expire after 24 months of inactivity.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015. Post-Rollout Issues/Unknowns
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) underwent numerous changes beginning on January 24, 2016. This wiki attempts to provide a summary of those changes (and Amtrak's ongoing unannounced revisions of the rules). For additional details, see the Amtrak website.
Table of Contents
Earning Status
As in the past, members earn Tier Qualifying Points (TQP) for paid travel at the rate of 2 TQP per dollar. With the 2016 changes, however, AGR has eliminated In addition, AGR now provides new class-of-service TQP bonuses: 25% for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. (As noted below, passengers will also earn redeemable AGR points in the same amount.)
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same: Benefits for each status level, including the Tier Bonus on cash fares (see below), remain the same.
Earning AGR Points Redeemable for Travel- the 100 TQP minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer TQP), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" TQP minimums for Business class (formerly 500 TQP) and First class (formerly 750 TQP); see post #83
The number of TQP required to earn status remains the same:
- Select - 5,000 TQP
- Select Plus - 10,000 TQP
- Select Executive - 20,000 TQP
Members continue to earn redeemable AGR points for paid travel (except as discussed below in this section) at the rate of 2 points per dollar, plus a new 25% point bonus for qualifying travel in Business class and 50% for qualifying travel in Acela First class. Sleeper-car tickets do not earn a bonus.
With the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates In addition to base points, members with status continue to earn Tier Bonus redeemable AGR points (i.e., not TQP) at the same level as in 2015: As was the case before, members do not earn points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redeeming for TravelWith the 2016 changes, however, AGR eliminates
- the 100 point minimum (so fares under $50 earn fewer points), and
- the Acela "select city pairs" minimums for Business class (previously 500 points) and First class (previously 750 points)
- Select - 25%
- Select Plus - 50%
- Select Executive - 100%
For 2016, redemption rules have changed drastically. AGR has discontinued its fixed-point awards and zone system, transitioning instead to a revenue-based system. Under the new program, the points required for an award ticket--including multi-ride tickets and monthly passes--are, with some exceptions noted below, proportional to the cash price of the ticket.
In general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
Note: Reward tickets booked before 1/24/16 are subject to the new redemption policy if modified or canceled on or after that date.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dateseliminated: On the plus side, AGR will eliminate award redemption blackout dates and Acela time-of-day restrictions. When the 2016 changes were announced, AGR claimed that blackout dates were being eliminated. As of January 24, 2016, the AGR website still makes that claim. Unfortunately, it is a lie.
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
Amtrak quietly added similar language to the website in early February 2016. The website also indicates that the point costs for "peak travel" dates and times may be increased in addition to any increase resulting resulting from a higher cash fare. To date, additional points costs of 50% and 100% have been observed on certain itineraries.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
Points ExpirationIn general, an AGR point is worth roughly 2.9 cents for non-Acela travel and 2.56 cents for Acela. (For example, 5,141 points are redeemable for a WAS-NYP regional one-way $149 ticket.) However, several new restrictions result in a lower yield for award redemptions:
- Minimum award pricing: Regardless of the cash fare, a non-Acela award ticket costs a minimum of 800 AGR points. As a result, using AGR points for such tickets with a cash price under $24 (e.g., LNC-PHL or BWI-WAS) results in lower yields.
Acela award tickets cost a minimum of 4,000 points. Using AGR points for Acela tickets costing less than $103 results in lower yields.
- No redemption for Saver awards: Per AGR's FT representative, members cannot redeem points for tickets at the least-expensive Saver rate. For instance, even if a $52 Saver WAS-NYP cash fare is available, points can be used only to purchase tickets at the equivalent of an $86 Value fare or higher (resulting in a yield of 1.75 cents/point at best).
- Peak travel dates/times: As discussed below under "Blackout Dates," Amtrak has quietly introduced a "peak travel" penalty in which certain high-demand itineraries (not published in advance) will cost 50% or even 100% more points than would normally correspond to the available cash fare.
- Most discount fares inapplicable: Under the 2016 program, AGR points are redeemable for tickets based only on the Adult or Child price, and not at the equivalent of Senior, AAA, or other discounted fares. (See post #83.)
- As was the case before, members may not redeem points for Amtrak 7000-series Thruway services or the Canadian portion of joint Amtrak/VIA Rail Canada services.
Redemption options: With the 2016 changes, AGR members are able to redeem points for multi-ride tickets or monthly passes as well as standard one-way & round-trip tickets.
Sleeper-car travel: The number of points required for sleeper-car travel is calculated using the prevailing fare, which reflects the actual number of passengers occupying the room. Amtrak assesses a single accommodation charge for the room, plus one adult/child rail fare per occupant.
Auto Train travel: Members are able to redeem points for Auto Train travel using the same process as for other itineraries. Vehicle(s) are priced the same as other portions of the itinerary per standard Amtrak Auto Train policies. Priority Vehicle Offloading may not be redeemed using points.
Credit card rebate: Holders of either new Bank of America co-branded credit card (see below) receive a 5% points rebates on Amtrak award tickets. This is the same as the benefit offered by the recently discontinued Chase card.
Blackout dates
On January 24--the day the new program changes took effect--AGR Insider posted new information making clear that the blackout-date policy has not been abandoned:
you may find limited availability on peak travel dates or times and it is possible that not every seat will be available for redemption. When redeeming points for trips during peak travel dates and times, some itineraries may be available only to our Select Plus and Select Executive members.
Under the old program rules, AGR published an advance list of blackout dates. AGR has provided no public information specifying the "peak travel dates or times" when general members are charged additional points or blacked out entirely from redeeming for travel.
Cancellation penalties: Canceling or modifying a standard ticket incurs an automatic 10% penalty. Doing so less than 24 hours in advance for non-sleeper tickets (or 14 days for sleeper-car travel) results in a "close-in" penalty of an additional 10% (i.e., a total penalty of 20%) for most travelers; however, this additional 10%/close-in penalty does not apply to Select Executive members.
No-shows result in 100% forfeiture for the missed segment, as well as cancellation and forfeiture for any later segments on the same itinerary. (As a result, it is less risky to book round-trip travel as two separate one-way tickets and, where possible, to book passengers individually rather than on a single shared ticket.)
For multiple-segment tickets, you can cancel the remainder even after travel begins. Thus, on a round-trip ticket you can cancel the return leg even if you have already begun the outbound leg.
CAUTION: The new policy is worded to imply that reservation "modification" and "cancellation" are treated differently. A "modification" ostensibly triggers a penalty only of "any fare difference returned to member," implying that changing to a more expensive fare should involve no penalty and changing to a less expensive fare should be subject to a penalty only on the refunded points difference.
Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
For complete details on the 2016 change rules, including the special rules for multi-ride tickets and monthly passes, see the AGR website.Unfortunately, there are now multiple reports that there is no difference in practice: AGR is treating any change as a full cancellation and rebooking, and penalizing accordingly. This includes asking to be rebooked in a different room on the same train (at the same price), changing dates, or altering routing. It is unclear how the new policy will be applied to travel affected by service disruptions such as weather-related train cancellations.
Points & cash redemption: AGR has indicated that a points+cash redemption option will be introduced in 2016. No details are available, and it is unclear how this will work with respect to earning TQP and redeemable points.
As today, AGR MasterCard cardholders' points will not expire as long as their credit card accounts are open. AGR has moved its co-branded credit card relationship to Bank of America, which now offers two different versions of the card, including one with no annual fee. All Chase AGR MasterCards were converted to Chase Freedom cards on September 30, 2015.
- Class-of-service bonuses have been posting initially as non-TQPs, although subsequent data points suggest there is currently a delay of ~12 days in proper crediting.
- Agents have claimed that any change incurs the 10/20% penalty (up to and including asking for a changed room assignment) on the full value of the ticket, rather than just anything involving a reduction in price being penalized 10/20% on the changed portion
It remains unclear whether these are merely IT errors or unannounced program devaluations, particularly as in some cases the contradict explicitly stated terms and conditions.
Introducing the next stop for Amtrak Guest Rewards
Jan 28, 2016, 9:46 pm
#361
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
As I said over on AU, as much as I'm dripping with vitriol over thos whole mess this sounds like an innocent IT goof and I'd expect it to be fixed in a few days (if nothing else, call AGR and ask them about the "apparently errant posting"). This isn't to allege incompetence; things like this happen when a program gets shifted and trying to get the code properly sorted isn't always easy.
With that said, Alan (and anyone else) please keep us in the loop so we know if this is just an IT hiccup or another "present".
Edit: I'm piling on the "complaint points" here, but I've gone through and compared AGR's redeposit fee/change fee with the "big four" airlines (United, Delta, American, Southwest) as well as Virgin (since that's my airline-of-choice) as well as cases where they waive it. Also, I'm only looking at domestic flights since with certain narrow exceptions (basically Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver) Amtrak is domestic-only.
Redeposit Fee/Award Travel:
-American: $150 domestic (waived for Executive Platinum)
-Delta: $150 domestic (waived for Platinum/Diamond Medallion)
-United: Complicated, but up to $200 (waived for Premier Platinum, Premier 1K, and United Global Services)
-Southwest: None
-Virgin: $100 (waived for Gold)
-Amtrak: 10-20% of award value (depending on time to trip, etc.; not the difference in fare)
Change Fee/Award Travel:
-American: None (as long as origin/destination remain the same, otherwise see Redeposit)
-Delta: Seems to be Same As Redeposit
-United: Complicated, but up to $100 (<21 days before departure) or $75 (21+ days before departure). Reduced or waived for most statuses, always waived for Platinum, 1K, and UGS.
-Southwest: None
-Virgin: Same as Redeposit
-Amtrak: Same as Redeposit (apparently)
Well, at least AGR is only charging Monopoly money for award changes...for now. *DUN DUN DUNNN!* Beyond that, it's a bit variable (on an expensive round-trip it would seem that Amtrak could be far more expensive to cancel/change than an airline, since award trips also lack the $100 cap on refund fees.
With that said, Alan (and anyone else) please keep us in the loop so we know if this is just an IT hiccup or another "present".
Edit: I'm piling on the "complaint points" here, but I've gone through and compared AGR's redeposit fee/change fee with the "big four" airlines (United, Delta, American, Southwest) as well as Virgin (since that's my airline-of-choice) as well as cases where they waive it. Also, I'm only looking at domestic flights since with certain narrow exceptions (basically Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver) Amtrak is domestic-only.
Redeposit Fee/Award Travel:
-American: $150 domestic (waived for Executive Platinum)
-Delta: $150 domestic (waived for Platinum/Diamond Medallion)
-United: Complicated, but up to $200 (waived for Premier Platinum, Premier 1K, and United Global Services)
-Southwest: None
-Virgin: $100 (waived for Gold)
-Amtrak: 10-20% of award value (depending on time to trip, etc.; not the difference in fare)
Change Fee/Award Travel:
-American: None (as long as origin/destination remain the same, otherwise see Redeposit)
-Delta: Seems to be Same As Redeposit
-United: Complicated, but up to $100 (<21 days before departure) or $75 (21+ days before departure). Reduced or waived for most statuses, always waived for Platinum, 1K, and UGS.
-Southwest: None
-Virgin: Same as Redeposit
-Amtrak: Same as Redeposit (apparently)
Well, at least AGR is only charging Monopoly money for award changes...for now. *DUN DUN DUNNN!* Beyond that, it's a bit variable (on an expensive round-trip it would seem that Amtrak could be far more expensive to cancel/change than an airline, since award trips also lack the $100 cap on refund fees.
Last edited by GrayAnderson; Jan 29, 2016 at 3:09 am
Jan 29, 2016, 6:26 am
#362
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: PHL
Programs: AA(PPro), UA, AGR, BW(Plat), HH, WoH, MB(S)
Posts: 778
How that compares to airline redeposit fees depends on the penalty. Valuing AGR points at 3 cents each, then a 5000 point penalty would equal the $150 redeposit fee levied by the legacy airlines.
Jan 29, 2016, 7:51 am
#363
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Mäntyharju, Finland
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 155
The Amtrak penalty is only applied to points redeposited, not the total award value. Book award travel for 40,000 points, then make a change to new travel costing 35,000 points, the penalty will be 10% of the 5000 point redeposit - 500 points (or 20%, 1000 points close in). Book a change costing the same or more points, there is no penalty. Cancel outright, then the penalty will be on the full 40,000 point redeposit - 4000 points or 8000 points close in.
How that compares to airline redeposit fees depends on the penalty. Valuing AGR points at 3 cents each, then a 5000 point penalty would equal the $150 redeposit fee levied by the legacy airlines.
How that compares to airline redeposit fees depends on the penalty. Valuing AGR points at 3 cents each, then a 5000 point penalty would equal the $150 redeposit fee levied by the legacy airlines.
Jan 29, 2016, 10:44 am
#364
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,194
But they don't. Changes to revenue tickets are free.
So why are AGR members penalized more for changes than people paying cash for tickets?
Look at this (for domestic tickets and no elite status):
AA revenue ticket change fee: $200
AA award ticket change fee: $0-150
DL revenue ticket change fee: $200-450
DL award ticket change fee: $150
UA revenue ticket change fee: $200
UA award ticket change fee: $75-200
AS revenue ticket change fee: $0-125 (no change fee >60 days before departure)
AS award ticket change fee: $0-125 (no change fee >60 days before departure)
In all but the last case (where it's equal), changes and cancellations to awards are less than changes to revenue tickets!
But then we have Amtrak:
2V revenue ticket change fee: $0
2V award ticket change fee: 10-20%
Amtrak points are now tied to the cost of the ticket being purchased (except they're not), so it should be a 1:1 thing across the board. Price goes up? Points go up. Price goes down? Points go down. Change or cancel? Should be same as money.
The change was already bad for many of us (and I'm no longer going out of my way to travel on Amtrak or earn Amtrak points); why is AGR not only making things more complicated than a 1:1 relationship with money but now is making things worse for the people who invest in its program? This seems like anti-loyalty-marketing to me.
Last edited by jackal; Jan 29, 2016 at 12:38 pm
Jan 29, 2016, 10:47 am
#365
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: United States
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Amtrak
Posts: 4,647
That said, you can get to Toronto via an AGR award if you're willing to endure an overnight bus ride from Michigan. You can also get to a whole host of British Columbia and Alberta destinations, including Calgary, via AGR awards if you are willing to take the bus.
Jan 29, 2016, 1:33 pm
#366
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
But then we have Amtrak:
2V revenue ticket change fee: $0
2V award ticket change fee: 10-20%
Amtrak points are now tied to the cost of the ticket being purchased (except they're not), so it should be a 1:1 thing across the board. Price goes up? Points go up. Price goes down? Points go down. Change or cancel? Should be same as money.
The change was already bad for many of us (and I'm no longer going out of my way to travel on Amtrak or earn Amtrak points); why is AGR not only making things more complicated than a 1:1 relationship with money but now is making things worse for the people who invest in its program? This seems like anti-loyalty-marketing to me.
2V revenue ticket change fee: $0
2V award ticket change fee: 10-20%
Amtrak points are now tied to the cost of the ticket being purchased (except they're not), so it should be a 1:1 thing across the board. Price goes up? Points go up. Price goes down? Points go down. Change or cancel? Should be same as money.
The change was already bad for many of us (and I'm no longer going out of my way to travel on Amtrak or earn Amtrak points); why is AGR not only making things more complicated than a 1:1 relationship with money but now is making things worse for the people who invest in its program? This seems like anti-loyalty-marketing to me.
Indeed. AGR is doing a fine job of having their cake and eating it, too with the revised program.
The other downside with the points change/cancel fee is that with an airline ticket - revenue or miles - if I have trip insurance and need to cancel or change it (due to a covered reason under the policy of course), I can send in a claim and get that cash change/cancel fee back. Same with an Amtrak revenue ticket. Whereas with most policies I'm aware of, there is no coverage to recoup those lost points that AGR 2.0 now takes back.
Jan 29, 2016, 3:12 pm
#367
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: AA Plat Pto, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,536
Just caught this today. The initial change did not particularly negatively impact me, loophole trips and coast to coast are just not something I have time to do. That change did alienate rail fans and the retired, the groups most likely to support Amtrak with their elected representatives. Probably not the brightest move to make.
My initial view back in September was that AGR was going to a slightly more lucrative Rapid Rewards clone with the change fee as the penalty for the better earnings. I was one of the few where AGR 2.0 would be a better redemption value. I got the credit card and shopped for any potential 1.0 awards but opted to wait for 2.0. I am not pleased with the stealth enhancements and will not be renewing the BOA card or routing any partner earning to AGR. So now AGR has soured both their political allies AND those bringing third party revenue to the organization.
My initial view back in September was that AGR was going to a slightly more lucrative Rapid Rewards clone with the change fee as the penalty for the better earnings. I was one of the few where AGR 2.0 would be a better redemption value. I got the credit card and shopped for any potential 1.0 awards but opted to wait for 2.0. I am not pleased with the stealth enhancements and will not be renewing the BOA card or routing any partner earning to AGR. So now AGR has soured both their political allies AND those bringing third party revenue to the organization.
Jan 29, 2016, 3:52 pm
#368
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: Amtrak Select Plus, Marriott Platinum, Marriott Lifetime Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,123
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 4.0.3; en-us; HTC_T120C Build/IML74K) AppleWebKit/534.30 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/534.30)
I've also decided not to renew my BofA card, and I just got it! Don't like the dishonesty that 2.0 has become.
I've also decided not to renew my BofA card, and I just got it! Don't like the dishonesty that 2.0 has become.
Jan 29, 2016, 6:01 pm
#369
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
I'm shifting my spend to VS and VX cards (and possibly SPG and/or Chase UR). I'll make a final decision on my AGR cards, but at least one of them is almost assuredly going to get taken out and shot come July/August (I'm going to try and optimize my TQPs off of it first, however). The second...it remains to be seen, but I'll make a decision on that around the same time.
I'm also not taking Amtrak points anywhere else that I can get something else (e.g. Rocketmiles).
@NovaEngr: I was talking about what districtRich referred to with his call, which has cast a serious question on the penalty (since it seems they're treating any change as "cancel and rebook" instead of "alter reservation". This could be simply an agent with lousy information, but it could easily also be that the policy is different than the impression that many of us got (and tried to confirm, with AGRInsider opting not to clarify).
I'm also not taking Amtrak points anywhere else that I can get something else (e.g. Rocketmiles).
@NovaEngr: I was talking about what districtRich referred to with his call, which has cast a serious question on the penalty (since it seems they're treating any change as "cancel and rebook" instead of "alter reservation". This could be simply an agent with lousy information, but it could easily also be that the policy is different than the impression that many of us got (and tried to confirm, with AGRInsider opting not to clarify).
Jan 29, 2016, 8:43 pm
#370
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
Ok, I knew I wasn't delusional but I finally tracked down the refund/modification rule on the website, from archive.org:
"Points difference (to new prevailing fare) will apply in all cases with a 10% points penalty withheld on any fare difference returned to member".[1] The same quote can be found on the website at present [2], though the path to finding that page is not entirely straightforward. So either the agent in the case above was wrong (possible, but given what the agent had to do to avoid the penalty the coding may have been different than the stated guidelines) or the guidelines are flat-out lying.
[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20150911...tionguidelines
[2] https://www.amtrakguestrewards.com/i...tionguidelines
Edit: In the event that the agent isn't wrong, I propose calling AGR 2.0 "Calvinball on Rails".
"Points difference (to new prevailing fare) will apply in all cases with a 10% points penalty withheld on any fare difference returned to member".[1] The same quote can be found on the website at present [2], though the path to finding that page is not entirely straightforward. So either the agent in the case above was wrong (possible, but given what the agent had to do to avoid the penalty the coding may have been different than the stated guidelines) or the guidelines are flat-out lying.
[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20150911...tionguidelines
[2] https://www.amtrakguestrewards.com/i...tionguidelines
Edit: In the event that the agent isn't wrong, I propose calling AGR 2.0 "Calvinball on Rails".
Last edited by GrayAnderson; Jan 29, 2016 at 9:17 pm
Jan 31, 2016, 9:18 am
#371
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 311
I had a smooth experience this morning booking my trip for this summer. It was exactly what the points estimator told me it would be and everything went through fine. I know I'm only one data point but kudos to Amtrak on a good experience just a few hours out of the gate.
I edited the previous post to reflect that my smooth experience was just in the booking, not in my points value.
Jan 31, 2016, 10:33 pm
#372
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 52
I have a couple of comments on AGR 2.0.
First, I am disappointed to read that the redemption ratios that Amtrak and AGR Insider told us would apply under 2.0 are subject to modification at Amtrak's whim. It's disturbing that this was not disclosed during the big announcement five months ago. AGR Insider had built a solid reputation for candor on this forum that has been tarnished by this development.
Second, I just booked an award online using points and discovered fifteen minutes later that there was a conflict in the schedule of one of the passengers. I ended up losing 10% of the entire original booking. Why can't AGR have a rule like the airlines which allow us 24 hours to figure out we made a mistake with our booking and allow penalty free changes? And why isn't there a way to modify a reservation online instead of cancelling and rebooking? My second booking was more points than the first, so I should have been able to make the change and just use more points. Instead, I lost 10% of original booking and had to make that up plus the additional points.
First, I am disappointed to read that the redemption ratios that Amtrak and AGR Insider told us would apply under 2.0 are subject to modification at Amtrak's whim. It's disturbing that this was not disclosed during the big announcement five months ago. AGR Insider had built a solid reputation for candor on this forum that has been tarnished by this development.
Second, I just booked an award online using points and discovered fifteen minutes later that there was a conflict in the schedule of one of the passengers. I ended up losing 10% of the entire original booking. Why can't AGR have a rule like the airlines which allow us 24 hours to figure out we made a mistake with our booking and allow penalty free changes? And why isn't there a way to modify a reservation online instead of cancelling and rebooking? My second booking was more points than the first, so I should have been able to make the change and just use more points. Instead, I lost 10% of original booking and had to make that up plus the additional points.
Feb 1, 2016, 1:19 am
#373
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
I have a couple of comments on AGR 2.0.
First, I am disappointed to read that the redemption ratios that Amtrak and AGR Insider told us would apply under 2.0 are subject to modification at Amtrak's whim. It's disturbing that this was not disclosed during the big announcement five months ago. AGR Insider had built a solid reputation for candor on this forum that has been tarnished by this development.
Second, I just booked an award online using points and discovered fifteen minutes later that there was a conflict in the schedule of one of the passengers. I ended up losing 10% of the entire original booking. Why can't AGR have a rule like the airlines which allow us 24 hours to figure out we made a mistake with our booking and allow penalty free changes? And why isn't there a way to modify a reservation online instead of cancelling and rebooking? My second booking was more points than the first, so I should have been able to make the change and just use more points. Instead, I lost 10% of original booking and had to make that up plus the additional points.
First, I am disappointed to read that the redemption ratios that Amtrak and AGR Insider told us would apply under 2.0 are subject to modification at Amtrak's whim. It's disturbing that this was not disclosed during the big announcement five months ago. AGR Insider had built a solid reputation for candor on this forum that has been tarnished by this development.
Second, I just booked an award online using points and discovered fifteen minutes later that there was a conflict in the schedule of one of the passengers. I ended up losing 10% of the entire original booking. Why can't AGR have a rule like the airlines which allow us 24 hours to figure out we made a mistake with our booking and allow penalty free changes? And why isn't there a way to modify a reservation online instead of cancelling and rebooking? My second booking was more points than the first, so I should have been able to make the change and just use more points. Instead, I lost 10% of original booking and had to make that up plus the additional points.
"For modifications on one-way, round-trip or multi-segment reward travel, the following will apply:
Points difference (to new prevailing fare) will apply in all cases with a 10% points penalty withheld on any fare difference returned to member
If modifying a non-sleeper ticket within 24 hours prior to departure, or a sleeper ticket within 14 days prior to departure, an additional "close-in" penalty of 10% of the points redeemed will be collected (waived for Select Executive)."
Italics are mine, but the language (and that is on the current website as of now, though there's an archive version if that gets changed [2]). The problem is that, as far as I can tell, any "change" actually processes as "cancel and rebook", so as an example a reservation which cost 15,000 points to book and then needs to be changed to 25,000 (using the old one-zone roomette/bedroom pricing IIRC) sounds like it ought to have no penalty (25k > 15k), but you'll get hit for a 1500/3000 cancel fee (standard/close-in) in the process because of this. I was giving this a few days as an IT hiccup; at this point I presume that it is intentional given that we're a week in and there's been no "oops, this is a mistake" on AGR's part.
[1] https://www.amtrakguestrewards.com/i...tionguidelines
[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20150911...tionguidelines
Edit: For what it is worth, we still don't know if this is the policy-as-intended, but I've edited the wiki to indicate that this is what is happening even if it is inconsistent with the plain-language understanding of the T&C.
Last edited by GrayAnderson; Feb 1, 2016 at 1:53 am
Feb 1, 2016, 11:49 am
#374
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: BOS
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (Select Executive)
Posts: 5
Hi All (especially AGR insider!),
I just redeemed points for a monthly pass from PVD-NLC for 29,853 points with a normal dollar cost of $558. That comes out to 53.5 points/dollar which is more than the advertised single fare redemption. Now, a difference won't surprise me but I want to make sure this is happening for everyone else because today, the CSR on the phone had to perform a work around to get my pass. When I tried to get the pass yesterday, the system wasn't working properly (for the CSR over the phone) and she wasn't able to execute the pass either...but she had also quoted me 29,853 which makes me slightly suspicious.
Any confirmation/information would be greatly appreciated.
Best,
Eric
I just redeemed points for a monthly pass from PVD-NLC for 29,853 points with a normal dollar cost of $558. That comes out to 53.5 points/dollar which is more than the advertised single fare redemption. Now, a difference won't surprise me but I want to make sure this is happening for everyone else because today, the CSR on the phone had to perform a work around to get my pass. When I tried to get the pass yesterday, the system wasn't working properly (for the CSR over the phone) and she wasn't able to execute the pass either...but she had also quoted me 29,853 which makes me slightly suspicious.
Any confirmation/information would be greatly appreciated.
Best,
Eric
Guess we're living a new AGR 2.0 reality that is similar to what was described but different enough to make you angry.
Feb 1, 2016, 12:06 pm
#375
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: BOS
Posts: 2,315
On the question of the penalty/points difference if changing an award, I booked an award as soon as the new program took effect. The fare dropped, as did the number of points required for an award. After an extended time on hold, I was told they are having a systems issues which is preventing the penalty from being calculated due to changes in award travel.
As a result they had to cancel out my original booking and return all the points (waiving any penalty), and then rebook the new travel at the lower level. As a result, I saved the 10% penalty on the points difference due to the systems problem, which was about 700 points. They had to waive the charge, since otherwise I would have been charged 3,500 points on the original cancelled reservation, which of course is not how the program is supposed to work.
So I think those that are being charged more than 10% on the reduction in points need to follow-up. This one actually looks like it is a systems issue and not another enhancement.
As a result they had to cancel out my original booking and return all the points (waiving any penalty), and then rebook the new travel at the lower level. As a result, I saved the 10% penalty on the points difference due to the systems problem, which was about 700 points. They had to waive the charge, since otherwise I would have been charged 3,500 points on the original cancelled reservation, which of course is not how the program is supposed to work.
So I think those that are being charged more than 10% on the reduction in points need to follow-up. This one actually looks like it is a systems issue and not another enhancement.