Landing Gear

"Fraudently?"

They must have an unusual definition of "fraud" there.

vbroucek

Oh, typical yankee. Next time you try to correct someone's English, get it right. Yes, I missed "u" in my post and corect term is fraudulent.

Landing Gear

We have a misunderstanding. I was not correcting your English. In fact, I made a typographical error in quoting back the word "fraudulently." That was my mistake, not yours, and to keep the record true, I have not edited it.

What I take issue with is your allegation that OP has engaged in fraud. I wonder how that would be possible since it appears he followed the rules.

So, tell me, what is the definition of "fraud" under Australian law that you feel allows you to make such an accusation?

vbroucek

Oh, sorry in that case. No, I do not know exact definition of fraud neither I do know if the rumour is correct. I am not lawyer or expert on fraud. But rumour is that AMEX is looking to this.

I personally agree that OP followed rules and did not do anything against the rules. However, legal world is weird and I have seen some fraud cases based on the facts that “this was not normal use of facility”.

Let’s be honest. What OP did was not “normal” and that’s why AMEX will never ever repeat such thing again and that’s why is AMEX being said to be investigating their options.

I personally think that it was bit foolish from the OP to publish all the details here.

flashware

The only thing I think they could consider is spending pattern, e.g. before the promo it was X, during the promo it was Y, now after the promo it has gone back to X.

Aus_Mal

There is no doubt that Amex has spent many hours looking at various legal perspectives on this promotion, what their options were and similar things. Their in-house legal team would have spent many, many hours trying to work out what to do.

However - if what your birdie has told you is true, Amex have already severely weakened their legal position by firstly requesting clarification on spending, and then crediting the points. There are also other massive legal loopholes that Amex left open during the promotion which will hound them if they start chasing people.

Will they do anything to people? Perhaps... But I suspect their targets are very clearly on their radar, and they wouldn't have had all points credited yet...

lovetravellingoz

From your accusation you are clearly no mate.

People like me?

I think you are showing clear bias.


Fraud is strong word. I suggest you look up it's meaning. To accuse anyone of fraud is a big step.

All my OP has done is to illustrate how I followed the T&C.

By publishing this I am actually showing that I have nothing to hide.

Remember that there was no minimum spend, no limit to the number of transactions that could be made etc etc.

You give poor advice because if I had committed fraud Amex would be able to reverse the points.

My tactic from the start has instead been to follow to the letter all Terms & Conditions. In any promotion there is nothing wrong with being systematic in one's approach.

Indeed as I knew from the start that I would make many transactions I also knew it was 99% likely that Amex would audit my spend. Knowing this to be the case I only had legitimate spend.

And indeed Amex did examine my spend and I freely justified all my spend to them as mentioned in the OP.

In addition I rang Amex on several occassions at the start of the promo and was told the T&C that there was no minimum spend and no limit to the bonus that could be earned.

I did this in part because I was surprised at how generous the promo was and wished to verify it.

lovetravellingoz

Yet you are prepared to accuse me of fraud?

Yet you are content to throw mud?

However I do agree that I followed the rules and did not do anything against the rules.

lovetravellingoz

As a discussion point I disagree.

Companies offer promotions in order to alter behaviour.

Therefore a promotion would be a failure if no change in pattern occurred.

If promotions did not alter patterns why would companies bother to offer them?

Naturally the company involved also hopes that the benefits from change patterns will continue after the promotion. However I am not sure the that the Pudding Guy still buys chocolate puddings at the rate he did in one period

In my case while my total number of tx has dropped Amex will in fact secure ongoing benefit as I indentified various businesses that I was not aware took Amex. This is because the promotion induced me to actively seek out new business that took Amex and to transfer my business to them from ones that only took VISA/MC and/or cash.

For example my previous green grocer did not take Amex and I found one that did.

Amex will therefore continue to gain tx from me that they otherwise would not have gained due to this promo.

lovetravellingoz

Also in my case it is worth noting that an Earth card that I have is attracting a lot of my current spend. So it will not be X though it is still gaining some spend.

The Earth promo concludes on March 31.


I have also only just enrolled in another Amex promo[/B] for my Maximiser Card. This was offered to me very recently in a letter personally addressed to me by Amex in a promo. After April 1 this will be gaining all of my possible Amex spend.


And in general with my Amex card the reason I have an Amex card in the first place is that it offers me more points per $ than their competitors.

Chasing points is not a sin, and is certainly not fraud, and is actually the cornerstone of Amexe's value proposition to it's cardmembers. This is how they won my business and I suspect the business of many many others.

I currently choose to maximise my spend on the Amex in preference to my Citibank, (and other cards I have) or cash.

vbroucek

I personally have never ever accused you of anything. I have just posted what I have heard from what I believe to be reasonably trusty source. And no, I will not reveal that source.

flashware

Why do you always get so defensive? Do you really need that many posts to say the same thing over and over?

I simply made a comment in relation to someone's comment, I did not ask you to justify for the 23498th time that all points were gained truthfully and without fraud. I can't actually see where I said you defrauded AMEX? Open both your eyes instead of being so one eyed.

flashware

I'm sensing a pattern here, this isn't the first time lovetravellingoz has gone off the deep end at fellow posters, when something like this is mentioned

You have to wonder why he is being so defensive, even though no one is accusing him of doing any wrong doing.

lovetravellingoz

I did not actually regard it as defensive, but rather just discussing the point you raised re patterns of spend.

vbroucek

You are right. I do not think I will ever respond to anyhting he writes again. I do not need it and I think this also discourages other members to join the discussion.