ALMOST THREE MILLION POINTS by a RTW BEER TASTING , READING NEWSPAPERS AND THE LIKE!!
Mar 7, 2009, 5:31 pm
#46
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New York City/NY22
Programs: AA Platinum 2.3MM (Lifetime PLT)
Posts: 5,285
Well the actual original text and Terms and Conditions were not much bigger than a postage stamp.
Here is the original offer (though my postcard was 5000 for every 5 tx):
http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/comm...10k-points.jpg
Yes breathtakingly brief!!!!!!!!!!! That is the complete T&C shown at left. Believe it or not!!!!!!!!!!!!! However in addition to this there were the general T&C of the Amex MR Program.
However if you look at any other Amex Promo before or since, they always have a complex set of T&C. How this promo got through to the public without the type of T&C that Amex would normally have was stunning.
So not only did Amex err here in having an amazingly generous bonus rate, but they has virtually non-existent T&C !!!!
So we had HUGE bonus rate.
No minimum spend
No limit to the bonus you could earn..and indeed when I rang to check that my registration was valid the CSR's without me asking anything reeled off those magic words....No minimum spend and no limit to the bonus you could earn.......and then no conditions (well not yet anyway apart from the general MR T&C. They came later when Amex went into damage control)!!!
Then add to this that they initially allowed anyone to register and not just those sent the invitations and you have a litany of woe and mistakes by Amex....and opportunity for some.
Later in September a new set of T&C was posted up on the Amex website, but oddly Amex never bothered to write to all those registered in the promo to let them know. The new T&C were to the best of my knowledge never promoted in any way unless you contacted Amex yourself.
For example they never advised me of the new T&C despite the fact that I was registered and was obviously shall we saw an active user of the promo!!! The skeptics thought that this was deliberate so that people could just be disqualified for breaching tightened T&C that they did not know existed.
http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/comm...10k-points.jpg
Here is the original offer (though my postcard was 5000 for every 5 tx):
http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/comm...10k-points.jpg
Yes breathtakingly brief!!!!!!!!!!! That is the complete T&C shown at left. Believe it or not!!!!!!!!!!!!! However in addition to this there were the general T&C of the Amex MR Program.
However if you look at any other Amex Promo before or since, they always have a complex set of T&C. How this promo got through to the public without the type of T&C that Amex would normally have was stunning.
So not only did Amex err here in having an amazingly generous bonus rate, but they has virtually non-existent T&C !!!!
So we had HUGE bonus rate.
No minimum spend
No limit to the bonus you could earn..and indeed when I rang to check that my registration was valid the CSR's without me asking anything reeled off those magic words....No minimum spend and no limit to the bonus you could earn.......and then no conditions (well not yet anyway apart from the general MR T&C. They came later when Amex went into damage control)!!!
Then add to this that they initially allowed anyone to register and not just those sent the invitations and you have a litany of woe and mistakes by Amex....and opportunity for some.
Later in September a new set of T&C was posted up on the Amex website, but oddly Amex never bothered to write to all those registered in the promo to let them know. The new T&C were to the best of my knowledge never promoted in any way unless you contacted Amex yourself.
For example they never advised me of the new T&C despite the fact that I was registered and was obviously shall we saw an active user of the promo!!! The skeptics thought that this was deliberate so that people could just be disqualified for breaching tightened T&C that they did not know existed.
http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/comm...10k-points.jpg
Let me say for now that I don't know Australian law but if they did such a promotion here (where by the way, American Express is headquartered), and they posted the same conditions you cited above, then I would feel free to divide up my produce ("greengrocer") shopping to one item at a time and charge each potato separately.
If you are in a store where you have a good relationship with the owners or managers, this should not be a problem.Incidentally, there are a number of businesses here that let you charge anything to a credit card with no minimum; 7-11 (as you mentioned) and Starbucks come to mind.
Mar 7, 2009, 6:22 pm
#47
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Programs: SQ, QF, MH, VA, AA, BA, AMEX, Citibank
Posts: 289
Let me say for now that I don't know Australian law but if they did such a promotion here (where by the way, American Express is headquartered), and they posted the same conditions you cited above, then I would feel free to divide up my produce ("greengrocer") shopping to one item at a time and charge each potato separately. If you are in a store where you have a good relationship with the owners or managers, this should not be a problem.
If you are in a store where you have a good relationship with the owners or managers, this should not be a problem.
and LOL...no need to waste time at grocery store either....if one was foolish enough to try sucha path (which was not for me).
Just pay that $1000 phone bill on-line in 1 cent increments and you have 100,000 tx and at 1000 points per tx that equals 100,000,000 points!!!!!!
At that rate even a company the size of Amex would have been bankrupted.
100,000,000 points at cost of a cent a point to Amex is say $1 million. Which would not be a bad days pay by any measure
Say a $100 million just for me...then add in all the others that were registered.
The potential liability was just mind-blowing...so there was no way that Amex would not push back, or at least attempt to if such tx-ing was going on.
So should I push for this.....and hope my legal team would be successful (this is a joke by the way)..or should I just go with the hard yards and a million plus points instead as more certain but less rewarding path.
Obviously I went the second and just went with the T&C as later revised. And indeed when others suggested bill-splitting at the start as part of general "waht-if" discussion like this I recommended against it.
Last edited by lovetravellingoz; Mar 15, 2009 at 12:30 am
Mar 8, 2009, 5:51 am
#48
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MUC/HKT
Programs: UA1K;AAEXP;BAG
Posts: 595
Enjoy your trips to Europe but be warned that using your red 20€ note might be not a good idea as the genuine 20€ note is blue. So better use your AMEX in Europe too....
Mar 8, 2009, 6:22 am
#49
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Programs: SQ, QF, MH, VA, AA, BA, AMEX, Citibank
Posts: 289
Sorry it is 10 Euro....but worth about $20 Aust...so that number must have got stuck in my head.
Mar 10, 2009, 7:36 pm
#50
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Programs: SQ, QF, MH, VA, AA, BA, AMEX, Citibank
Posts: 289
New York I think will be over Xmas 2010 as part of a RTW redemption.
A New York Beer Guide would be most welcome
Mar 11, 2009, 4:40 am
#51
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: TLV now - formerly LAS
Programs: King of Rental Cars, BA Gold, Virgin Gold, AA MM Gold, A3 Gold, SK Gold, Hotel SuperElite
Posts: 7,357
Mar 11, 2009, 5:33 am
#52
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Programs: SQ, QF, MH, VA, AA, BA, AMEX, Citibank
Posts: 289
Wohoo Free beer (as Homer would say)....offers already of Beer Guides in Chicago, NewYork and Las Vegas..... though don't worry....as we say in Oz...I'll get the second 'shout"
I can feel a post on a RTW Beer Tasting coming on a in a year or two
Not a bad way to travel the world.....though pardon me if I take advantage of some champagne in Business Class along the way 
Last edited by lovetravellingoz; Mar 11, 2009 at 5:39 am
Mar 11, 2009, 7:35 am
#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,644
Also Posted on the 19th Sept:
Luisa Megale, VP for Public Affairs & Communications at American Express asked [frequentflyer.com.au Admin] to post this note on her behalf…
It’s great to see you are so excited about the benefits of using your American Express Card, but unfortunately there are limits. I have been disappointed to read some of the posts suggesting abuse of the offer. We will be reviewing all spend activity related to the offer to identify cases of suspected abuse. Cardmembers who are found to have acted inappropriately risk forfeiting any points earned .
Luisa
Luisa Megale, VP for Public Affairs & Communications at American Express asked [frequentflyer.com.au Admin] to post this note on her behalf…
It’s great to see you are so excited about the benefits of using your American Express Card, but unfortunately there are limits. I have been disappointed to read some of the posts suggesting abuse of the offer. We will be reviewing all spend activity related to the offer to identify cases of suspected abuse. Cardmembers who are found to have acted inappropriately risk forfeiting any points earned .
Luisa
And in Boston. Although I'm always looking for an excuse to go to Vegas.
Mike
Mar 11, 2009, 7:43 am
#54
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Programs: SQ, QF, MH, VA, AA, BA, AMEX, Citibank
Posts: 289
Exactly, Amex's real problem was not abuse of the promo, but use of the promo.
Sounds good.
Mar 11, 2009, 8:11 pm
#55
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Programs: SQ, QF, MH, VA, AA, BA, AMEX, Citibank
Posts: 289
Looks like the more recent promos are all locked up more tightly.
Though at least there are still some Point Run opportunities to be had and I am currently in two that earn additional points and another that will just give a gift card.
Still I never expect to be fortunate enough to get another such large opportunity.....but then again one never knows as The Pudding Guy did manage to land a second opportunity to earn a second million point run...and has racked up several 300K plus runs.
As mentioned at the start of this thread The Pudding Guy inspired me to become a more diligent Point Runner. I have for two decades collected points and particularly as I used to be a frequent (paid) flyer and travelled a lot and earnt a healthy amount per year by a combination of flying, credit cards, hotels etc...but I never really worked it, though I was certainly a keen collector.
I am not sure what I averaged back then as I never kept a tab and it was up and down somewhat....say 80K to 200K in a good year. FlyBuys (an Australian Store Loyalty Program that had the advantage that many different stores, petrol stations and other businesses were in ) was also reasonable program back then and earnt me 3 Melbourne to Adelaide Flights before being devalued to such an extent that it is now insignificant.
So today out of interest I have just had a quick look at my post-Pudding Guy efforts.
I read about him (and then went off and read about other promos and Point Runners) in July 2006. So a light bulb went off in my head an an addiction started. One of the things I did was to start tracking my points.
So adding it all up now I can see that since July 2006 I have earnt 3.55 Million points in about 2 years, 7 months. This with only a small earn from flights (say 50K) and less credit card spend that I used to do in past years (I in a previous career used to charge quitea lot to a work card, but now work spend is very small and so most cc spend is now from personal spend). Card spend in this period would have been under $100K per year.
So that is about 0.7 million from point running not counting the latest 2.8 million and 0.05 million from actual flying.
These days I keep my points for long haul international redemptions. Australian Domestic redemptions including Business Class used to be good value for longer flights, but are a lot less attractive now due to various "enhancements" combined with domestic travel having dropped dramatically in cost in real terms. Though pre-xmas I could not resist picking up two Nokia N95 phones for only 10K each in a "mistake" Citibank Rewards listing (They should have been about 130K each). I actualy redeemed for more, but Citibank decided that two were enough..............
In that period waived CC fees have in the main been the norm. So about the only dollars I have put up (ignoring the money spent on things that I would buy anyway) was the $125 card fee in the recent Earth Promo to gain 20K up front and a temporary earn rate of 3.0 (doubled from 1.5) points per $ and once a $30 for a Supplementary Card Fee. So not a bad cost-benefit ratio.
The Everday Promo I regard as being about cost-neautral for while I did spend extra dollars on extra drinks and treats that I would not normally have bought....I also made a lot genuine savings that would not have been obatained if I was not out shopping everyday. So it all balanced out IMO.
Though at least there are still some Point Run opportunities to be had and I am currently in two that earn additional points and another that will just give a gift card.
Still I never expect to be fortunate enough to get another such large opportunity.....but then again one never knows as The Pudding Guy did manage to land a second opportunity to earn a second million point run...and has racked up several 300K plus runs.
As mentioned at the start of this thread The Pudding Guy inspired me to become a more diligent Point Runner. I have for two decades collected points and particularly as I used to be a frequent (paid) flyer and travelled a lot and earnt a healthy amount per year by a combination of flying, credit cards, hotels etc...but I never really worked it, though I was certainly a keen collector.
I am not sure what I averaged back then as I never kept a tab and it was up and down somewhat....say 80K to 200K in a good year. FlyBuys (an Australian Store Loyalty Program that had the advantage that many different stores, petrol stations and other businesses were in ) was also reasonable program back then and earnt me 3 Melbourne to Adelaide Flights before being devalued to such an extent that it is now insignificant.
So today out of interest I have just had a quick look at my post-Pudding Guy efforts.
I read about him (and then went off and read about other promos and Point Runners) in July 2006. So a light bulb went off in my head an an addiction started. One of the things I did was to start tracking my points.
So adding it all up now I can see that since July 2006 I have earnt 3.55 Million points in about 2 years, 7 months. This with only a small earn from flights (say 50K) and less credit card spend that I used to do in past years (I in a previous career used to charge quitea lot to a work card, but now work spend is very small and so most cc spend is now from personal spend). Card spend in this period would have been under $100K per year.
So that is about 0.7 million from point running not counting the latest 2.8 million and 0.05 million from actual flying.
These days I keep my points for long haul international redemptions. Australian Domestic redemptions including Business Class used to be good value for longer flights, but are a lot less attractive now due to various "enhancements" combined with domestic travel having dropped dramatically in cost in real terms. Though pre-xmas I could not resist picking up two Nokia N95 phones for only 10K each in a "mistake" Citibank Rewards listing (They should have been about 130K each). I actualy redeemed for more, but Citibank decided that two were enough..............
In that period waived CC fees have in the main been the norm. So about the only dollars I have put up (ignoring the money spent on things that I would buy anyway) was the $125 card fee in the recent Earth Promo to gain 20K up front and a temporary earn rate of 3.0 (doubled from 1.5) points per $ and once a $30 for a Supplementary Card Fee. So not a bad cost-benefit ratio.
The Everday Promo I regard as being about cost-neautral for while I did spend extra dollars on extra drinks and treats that I would not normally have bought....I also made a lot genuine savings that would not have been obatained if I was not out shopping everyday. So it all balanced out IMO.
Mar 12, 2009, 2:30 pm
#56
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: HKG
Programs: Marriott Ambassador (Titanium Lifetime), BA Gold, Ex-Hertz 5* PC, Ex-HH Diamond, Ex-BD*G
Posts: 3,062
One amazing story.... pure dedication too - I hope you enjoy your well earned trips!
And good on Amex for allowing you to keep the points.... if I was them I'd use you for publicity purposes as I'm sure this story is crazy enough to get onto the 'odd stories' page in most papers.
I'm a fan of Amex..... have a few of their cards (much better for earning potential!) - just have to hope they do something like this one day in the UK
And good on Amex for allowing you to keep the points.... if I was them I'd use you for publicity purposes as I'm sure this story is crazy enough to get onto the 'odd stories' page in most papers.
I'm a fan of Amex..... have a few of their cards (much better for earning potential!) - just have to hope they do something like this one day in the UK
Mar 12, 2009, 9:14 pm
#58
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Programs: SQ, QF, MH, VA, AA, BA, AMEX, Citibank
Posts: 289
It just occurred to me that I did not include in the OP the MR points earnt in this Points Run.
So I have now updated the OP to give the full account and so my final points earnt all up is:
2.825 Million Promo points plus 0.042 MR points
= 2.867 points all up earnt
.........so rounding this off = 2.9 million..
So I have now updated the OP to give the full account and so my final points earnt all up is:
2.825 Million Promo points plus 0.042 MR points
= 2.867 points all up earnt
.........so rounding this off = 2.9 million..
Mar 14, 2009, 6:07 pm
#60
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Programs: M&M SEN, Amex Plat, Club Carlson, Marriott, HHonors & Accor Gold, Velocity Silver, Qantas Bronze
Posts: 3,767
This might be considered to be fraud
Mate, little birdie tells me that you might be up to a big surprise. Apparently AMEX is seeking legal advice on how to deal with few people like you... By publishing all this you gave AMEX very good proof that you have indeed acquired your points fraudulently. So if I was you, I'd try to spend them as soon as possible, because they may disappear soon, or be blocked soon, or you might have cops on your doorsteps...
Last edited by vbroucek; Mar 14, 2009 at 6:42 pm Reason: Spell check - to avoid sticky Yankees having problem with it...