Jan 7, 2019, 9:47 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
Awards: All Cathay Pacific / CX (Including First and Business Class)
Questions, Availability, Discussion
Questions, Availability, Discussion
For the current thread, please see here.
NOTE: As of 15 Jan 2017, JFK CX flights have relocated to Terminal 8.
Please feel free to use this thread for questions regarding CX Economy, Premium Economy, First and Business Class award redemption using AAdvantage miles, as well as questions regarding award availability, routings and related issues. Please go to the Cathay Pacific Asia Miles Forum to discuss or ask about meals, equipment, service, etc. on CX, as there is an existing wealth of information there - and this is the American Airlines AAdvantage Forum
.AA Flight award chart for oneworld® and partner airlines
Other related threads that may be of interest:
FT Discrepancy between CX Award Search and AA availability: Discrepancy between QF and CX award search and AA availability
FT How , When to Select CX Seats on CX Award: How / when to select seat on a Cathay (CX) award / flight (consolidated)
FT Cathay Pacific Experience - Seats / Interline/ Baggage FAQs: Cathay Pacific Experience / Seats / Interline / Baggage FAQs
Also, for Rules about awards, see AA oneworld and Other Airline Partner Award information, rules (2015 on).
NOTE:
1) Only "MileSAAver" awards apply to oneworld and AA partners.
1a) Premium Economy seats are not available with AAdvantage awards, may be soon as AA sells Premium Economy Feb 2017.
2) Awards on Cathay Pacific and subsidiary KA / DragonAir may be booked through AA.
3) aa.com does not reveal CX awards; you must call AA (1-800-882-8880) to book a CX award (though you may find BA, JL or QF websites may reflect CX award availability). As CX/KA awards can not be booked online on aa.com, you must call (no fee).
3a) Be aware that what you see on the BA, JL, or QF sites may not be visible to the AA reservations folks. You may want to note the flight on which the F award seat is shown as "available" on those sites and if the AA agent doesn't see any availability suggest that the AA agent check that specific one again. If the AA agent still cannot see it, thank them, hang up, and call back a little later.
3b) Sometimes CX will make flights available for award booking to CX frequent flyers, but not release the seats immediately for other oneworld frequent flyers. Usually though, the seats, if not taken by CX frequent flyers, are released after a while to other OW programs.
4) Although CX may release seats for award earlier, AA can book them no more than 331 days prior to departure. The awards that CX does release are available as early as 355 days prior to departure for CX and BA frequent fliers, and sometimes that means the awards you want w AA miles will be snatched up prior to the 331 day mark.
*** AA does not have a set schedule to load flights. They can load it anytime after midnight 331 days out. Most of the time it is within a couple to 12 hours of that. Other times, it can be a full day or a day and a half afterwards, especially on the weekends where there's most variability. Unlike JL award space, it is not a specific time of day.
4a) Keep in mind that when booking eastbound space to North America that it's one day later in HKG so that space usually becomes available 330 days in advance to North America; this is not always true, since CX has already loaded the availability a month prior to AA - it is just up to AA to load and release the seats on SABRE, so it typically ends up being 330 days out, but not necessarily.
4b) Similarly... if you are trying to book westbound, US->HKG->Somewhere then AA may not be able to book the HKG->Somewhere segment 331 days in advance of the US->HKG flight, if it is still 332 days out in HKG. As it is the flights from US->HKG that are hardest to get, if you find a seat US->HKG at the 331 day mark when it is first available for booking through AA but cannot book the continuation, you can just put that US->HKG segment on hold with AA, then call back the next day when connecting flights will be loaded into the system to try to book the onward flight from HKG.
5) CX tends to initially release award seats farther out, and then again closer to the day of departure if there is remaining F or J seat inventory available, so keep checking back with AA up to the last practicable minute. AA will ticket partner awards/changes up to 4 hours prior to departure.
5a) So is there a pattern to how many seats CX releases? They seem to consistently release 5 J award seats and 1-2 F award seats on long hauls to/from North America at 355 days out. For intra-Asia flights, they often release just 4 J seats.
5b) Patterns for west coast routes: Because LAX has 4 daily flights to HKG, it tends to be the easiest option for blocks of 3 or more J award seats. SFO and YVR only have 2 daily flights and even if 5 award seats were initially released at 355 days prior to departure, some of those may be gone by the time the 331 day mark rolls around. If you need 4 or 5 J award seats on these west coast routes, either use Avios to book at 355 days or consider routing through LAX where there may still be availability at 331 days out.
5c) Pattern for release of close-in (within about 14 days of flight) award seats? Driving Rain reports that using BA.com it appeared that on three consecutive Sunday evenings at exactly 1030pm Eastern Daylight Time inventory would open up for "close-in" CX flights (i.e. flights roughly within 14 days of that Sunday) to and from the US. While there were changes here and there periodically during the week, sweeping changes occurred on Sunday nights at 1030. Driving Rain reports that it seems that on Monday mornings in Hong Kong (i.e. 1030pm EDT on Sunday) someone at CX HQ consistently did a run through the inventory and freed it up. No guarantees, but a person looking for close-in flights might want to plan to check with AA shortly after 1030 PM Eastern Time on Sundays to see if anything has become available.
6) AA does not charge "YQ" surcharges [what they sometimes call "fuel surcharge"] on CX/KA award segments (BA Avios does), thus the taxes and fees on your "free" ticket on CX or KA are almost always significantly less than for the same routing on BA.
6a)
6b) There is a Hong Kong Departure Tax (HK) of $120 HKD (approx $15.50 USD) on every segment departing Hong Kong. Exemptions apply. If your ticket includes this tax and you qualify for an exemption, a refund can be applied for either in person at HKIA landside or via post to Civil Aviation Department. AA charges this tax for children under 12 years of age despite the exemption. In order to obtain a cash refund at HKIA, you will need passenger passport, passenger boarding pass, passenger ticket receipt showing the fare calculation line which will show the HK tax being charged. This receipt can be obtained at any AA counter worldwide including HKIA as well as Airport Express in-town check-in (AA check-in). As the AA counter at HKIA operates only during limited hours, Airport Express in-town check-in would be the the convenient option.
7) Not all CX flights offer First class; CX Business is markedly different on long haul and regionally configured aircraft.
8) If you're looking for multiple seats in First on a particular flight but can find only some but not all that you're looking for, take what's available in F, then take the rest of the seats you want on J (if available) on the same flight, and check back periodically to see if an F seat has opened up for award. There is no additional charge (in money, although there will be in miles) to change to an award to a higher cabin of service (e.g., J to F, Y to F, Y to J) as long as the award keeps the same origin/destination airports.
9) In general, rerouting to different flights after you have redeemed an award will not attract a monetary penalty so long as the originating and destination airports are the same (connection airport can differ without triggering change fee) and you are using oneworld carriers. For this reason, be aware of potential alternate routings and check them, too. For example, CX uses LAX, SFO, ORD, JFK, and BOS as ports of entry to the US from HKG (and also YVR and YYZ in Canada), so if you have one F and one J award seat on a non-stop from HKG to ORD, you might check flights from HKG to LAX for available seats in F, and if they are available, reroute from your HKG-ORD to HKG-LAX on CX, then continue LAX-ORD on AA First.
9a) Note the above rule also applies if you change the dates of flight but retain the same originating city and destination city. If you are flexible in your travel dates be sure to periodically check availability on other dates as well.
10) Be aware your award must conform to some rules on a) MPM (Maximum Permitted Mileage - your award routing can not exceed 125% of the most direct routing available); a useful tool is Great Circle Mapper.
11) The Most Significant Carrier (transpacific usually, CX in most of these posts,) must offer a non-"constructed" fare between your origin and destination (you might find an unconstructed fare between DFW and SIN, but might not from Killeen to SIN).
12) If you can't pick your CX seats online, either due to them being blocked or you just want to call, you need to first get the CX PNR from AAdvantage at 1-800-882-8880. Then call CX at 1-800-233-2742. Some seats that are blocked on CX website are assignable via AA reservations. Close to departure AA can even assign 2A, 2K.
Note: if the Cathay Manage booking tool doesn't appear to recognize your CX PNR, you need to enter your first name AND middle name, separated by a space, in the "First Name" field.
13) Up-cabin visits (i.e. J pax joining F companion in F cabin) are not permitted per CX policy, though have been granted under special circumstances. But putting crew in the awkward position of being asked to violate policy is generally frowned upon. Down-cabin visits are permitted ex-USA. However, on flights to the USA, down-cabin visits are not permitted and this rule is vigorously enforced.
Posts made in 2017 may be read in ARCHIVE: 2017 AA Awards in Cathay Pacific / CX, KA...
Posts made in 2016 may be read in ARCHIVE: AA Awards on Cathay Pacific (2016).
Posts made in 2015 may be read in ARCHIVE: AA Awards on Cathay Pacific (2015).
Posts made in 2014 may be read in ARCHIVE: Awards: CX / Cathay Pacific / (inc. F and J) - 2014.
N.B. Older posts have been moved and archived to: Cathay Pacific / CX (inc. First and Business Class) award - ARCHIVED.
ARCHIVE: 2017 AA Award: Cathay Pacific / CX, KA availability, etc. (master thd)
. No availability for weeks either side of my date. Not even 1 seat. Very strange
Apr 24, 2017, 6:41 am
#288
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Omaha, NE
Programs: SPG Gold, Marriott Gold, Amex Platinum
Posts: 54
Close in seats in First
As a potential update to the wiki, the close in (less than 14 days out) release of first class seats happens sometime after 12:00am and before 6:00am on Monday. I've been following this ever Sunday night for the past 4 months, and the last 4 weeks have shown that pattern.
Apr 24, 2017, 7:35 am
#289
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,237
As a potential update to the wiki, the close in (less than 14 days out) release of first class seats happens sometime after 12:00am and before 6:00am on Monday. I've been following this ever Sunday night for the past 4 months, and the last 4 weeks have shown that pattern.
Apr 24, 2017, 9:44 am
#290
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,541
As a potential update to the wiki, the close in (less than 14 days out) release of first class seats happens sometime after 12:00am and before 6:00am on Monday. I've been following this ever Sunday night for the past 4 months, and the last 4 weeks have shown that pattern.
Not at all saying that your data collection is suspect, would just prefer some more granularity if you're willing to share.
Respectfully, Jamie
Apr 24, 2017, 12:41 pm
#291
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Omaha, NE
Programs: SPG Gold, Marriott Gold, Amex Platinum
Posts: 54
What route? I'm not saying this is mistaken, but I can assure that JFKHKG doesn't follow this pattern. I've seen several awards released around 1800 EST midweek. I've also seen awards released 0715 EST on Thursday morning, for example.
Not at all saying that your data collection is suspect, would just prefer some more granularity if you're willing to share.
Respectfully, Jamie
Not at all saying that your data collection is suspect, would just prefer some more granularity if you're willing to share.
Respectfully, Jamie
Apr 24, 2017, 12:42 pm
#292
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Omaha, NE
Programs: SPG Gold, Marriott Gold, Amex Platinum
Posts: 54
Apr 24, 2017, 12:44 pm
#293
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD [formerly] + HKG
Programs: CX Diamond, AA exExPlat, BAEC exGold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Starriott Titanium, GE
Posts: 2,966
It's actually 10:30am Hong Kong time when a 'refresh' takes place.
Apr 24, 2017, 1:53 pm
#294
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,541
But are you implying this is the only time that this takes place?
For example, in the Sunday example, the OP is implying that a flight that's F5 the following Friday will have award(s) released on Sunday. That's reasonable. But if Sunday is the only time awards are refreshed, what happens to the next Friday's flight that's F2, has nothing released, then on Tuesday 4 revenue pax cancel. It goes out empty?
I've seen awards released Saturday 1600 EST released.
Still don't understand the analysis behind "Sunday night".
For example, in the Sunday example, the OP is implying that a flight that's F5 the following Friday will have award(s) released on Sunday. That's reasonable. But if Sunday is the only time awards are refreshed, what happens to the next Friday's flight that's F2, has nothing released, then on Tuesday 4 revenue pax cancel. It goes out empty?
I've seen awards released Saturday 1600 EST released.
Still don't understand the analysis behind "Sunday night".
Apr 24, 2017, 2:18 pm
#295
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD [formerly] + HKG
Programs: CX Diamond, AA exExPlat, BAEC exGold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Starriott Titanium, GE
Posts: 2,966
But are you implying this is the only time that this takes place?
For example, in the Sunday example, the OP is implying that a flight that's F5 the following Friday will have award(s) released on Sunday. That's reasonable. But if Sunday is the only time awards are refreshed, what happens to the next Friday's flight that's F2, has nothing released, then on Tuesday 4 revenue pax cancel. It goes out empty?
I've seen awards released Saturday 1600 EST released.
Still don't understand the analysis behind "Sunday night".
For example, in the Sunday example, the OP is implying that a flight that's F5 the following Friday will have award(s) released on Sunday. That's reasonable. But if Sunday is the only time awards are refreshed, what happens to the next Friday's flight that's F2, has nothing released, then on Tuesday 4 revenue pax cancel. It goes out empty?
I've seen awards released Saturday 1600 EST released.
Still don't understand the analysis behind "Sunday night".
But also, I have consistently seen a 'sea' of last minute Z awards pop up at the same time on Sunday nights, for departures for the next 6-10 days. That is for F or A4-6 flights.
In the last minute cancellation case that you point out, it would depend on more factors such as waitlisted MPC members and Y loading and yes I was recently on a flight with F2 going back to F4 a few days before departure but no partner Z released at all. End result 2 MPC members did mileage upgrade at airport. Which I think is fair and the right thing to do.
Apr 24, 2017, 2:22 pm
#296
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD [formerly] + HKG
Programs: CX Diamond, AA exExPlat, BAEC exGold, HH Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Starriott Titanium, GE
Posts: 2,966
In like such last-minute variable situations, Z awards can be 'manually released' by flight control. But guess who can request/'beg' for that, MPC (which is a separate entity) or AA/AS? You probably know the answer. So for those obsessed with CX F, it is probably a better strategy to switch to/hoard/churn/MS/(whatever way you like to print) Asia miles instead.
Apr 24, 2017, 3:04 pm
#297
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,541
I said nothing about the day of the week. There is some sort of trigger and release every day at around that time.
But also, I have consistently seen a 'sea' of last minute Z awards pop up at the same time on Sunday nights, for departures for the next 6-10 days. That is for F or A4-6 flights.
In the last minute cancellation case that you point out, it would depend on more factors such as waitlisted MPC members and Y loading and yes I was recently on a flight with F2 going back to F4 a few days before departure but no partner Z released at all. End result 2 MPC members did mileage upgrade at airport. Which I think is fair and the right thing to do.
But also, I have consistently seen a 'sea' of last minute Z awards pop up at the same time on Sunday nights, for departures for the next 6-10 days. That is for F or A4-6 flights.
In the last minute cancellation case that you point out, it would depend on more factors such as waitlisted MPC members and Y loading and yes I was recently on a flight with F2 going back to F4 a few days before departure but no partner Z released at all. End result 2 MPC members did mileage upgrade at airport. Which I think is fair and the right thing to do.
Best, Jamie
Apr 24, 2017, 3:30 pm
#298
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,053
Sometimes airlines will release one-at-a-time and I ran into exactly this situation with SQ many (10+) years ago using UA miles for a J award... SQ would release only one seat to UA. But once it was claimed they would release another. This worked to get both my wife and I onto the non-stop EWR-SIN but I have no idea if SQ (or any other airline) still does this.
DAK.
Apr 24, 2017, 4:09 pm
#299
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DTW, but drive to/from YYZ/ORD
Programs: Chase Ultimate Rewards 2MM, Diner Club points
Posts: 31,920
In like such last-minute variable situations, Z awards can be 'manually released' by flight control. But guess who can request/'beg' for that, MPC (which is a separate entity) or AA/AS? You probably know the answer. So for those obsessed with CX F, it is probably a better strategy to switch to/hoard/churn/MS/(whatever way you like to print) Asia miles instead.
Apr 26, 2017, 12:34 am
#300
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 441
Do either expertflyer or kvs allow for searches of cx (and other partners) availability using AA rewards? Which is best?