Speculation: Will AA continue to pull back in NYC?
Aug 17, 2017, 1:19 am
#31
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Aug 17, 2017, 4:26 am
#32
Join Date: Apr 2009
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DL is the antithesis of AA when it comes to launching routes from non-cornerstone US cities (to use old AA management language that is clearly still in force with new AA management language) Just looking at TATL:
PHL-LHR (this is slot squatting, something DL gained from the AA merger DOJ settlement. They get to drop PHL-LHR next year and keep the LHR slot for whatever use they want).
PHL-CDG (seasonal)
PIT-CDG (seasonal)
RDU-CDG (AA does have RDU-LHR of course, one of the few cornerstone exceptions)
EWR-CDG
EWR-AMS
BOS-CDG (arguable that BOS is a DL hub, though language on that varies)
BOS-AMS
BOS-LHR
PDX-AMS
PDX-LHR
MCO-AMS (launching 2018)
DL even runs special international sections sometimes, such as a few days of NRT-LAS during CES in LAS and, in 2018, 4 days of AUS-AMS flights for SXSW.
And that's just TATL (except NRT-LAS of course
not domestic point to point routes that DL also adds. DL is has a very different route planning business approach than AA.
PHL-LHR (this is slot squatting, something DL gained from the AA merger DOJ settlement. They get to drop PHL-LHR next year and keep the LHR slot for whatever use they want).
PHL-CDG (seasonal)
PIT-CDG (seasonal)
RDU-CDG (AA does have RDU-LHR of course, one of the few cornerstone exceptions)
EWR-CDG
EWR-AMS
BOS-CDG (arguable that BOS is a DL hub, though language on that varies)
BOS-AMS
BOS-LHR
PDX-AMS
PDX-LHR
MCO-AMS (launching 2018)
DL even runs special international sections sometimes, such as a few days of NRT-LAS during CES in LAS and, in 2018, 4 days of AUS-AMS flights for SXSW.
And that's just TATL (except NRT-LAS of course
not domestic point to point routes that DL also adds. DL is has a very different route planning business approach than AA.PDX-LHR is a bit different because LHR isn't a connecting hub (at least not to Europe) for DL, but it's still a flight operated to a metal neutral joint venture hub.
Aug 17, 2017, 4:54 am
#33
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,506
DL is the antithesis of AA when it comes to launching routes from non-cornerstone US cities (to use old AA management language that is clearly still in force with new AA management language) Just looking at TATL:
PHL-LHR (this is slot squatting, something DL gained from the AA merger DOJ settlement. They get to drop PHL-LHR next year and keep the LHR slot for whatever use they want).
PHL-CDG (seasonal)
PIT-CDG (seasonal)
RDU-CDG (AA does have RDU-LHR of course, one of the few cornerstone exceptions)
EWR-CDG
EWR-AMS
BOS-CDG (arguable that BOS is a DL hub, though language on that varies)
BOS-AMS
BOS-LHR
PDX-AMS
PDX-LHR
MCO-AMS (launching 2018)
DL even runs special international sections sometimes, such as a few days of NRT-LAS during CES in LAS and, in 2018, 4 days of AUS-AMS flights for SXSW.
And that's just TATL (except NRT-LAS of course not domestic point to point routes that DL also adds. DL is has a very different route planning business approach than AA.
PHL-LHR (this is slot squatting, something DL gained from the AA merger DOJ settlement. They get to drop PHL-LHR next year and keep the LHR slot for whatever use they want).
PHL-CDG (seasonal)
PIT-CDG (seasonal)
RDU-CDG (AA does have RDU-LHR of course, one of the few cornerstone exceptions)
EWR-CDG
EWR-AMS
BOS-CDG (arguable that BOS is a DL hub, though language on that varies)
BOS-AMS
BOS-LHR
PDX-AMS
PDX-LHR
MCO-AMS (launching 2018)
DL even runs special international sections sometimes, such as a few days of NRT-LAS during CES in LAS and, in 2018, 4 days of AUS-AMS flights for SXSW.
And that's just TATL (except NRT-LAS of course
not domestic point to point routes that DL also adds. DL is has a very different route planning business approach than AA.
Aug 17, 2017, 7:39 am
#35
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: New York
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BA has been wanting to redo their T7 @ JFK, I think B6 wants to build a new term, so if AA does enough cutbacks Im wondering if BA would simply move into AAs T8 and let B6 have the footprint of T7 and the old T6 (which they now use as a parking area) to build a new Term maybe with CBP to handle its Intl flights they now have , as well as European flights should they enter that mkt. along with IB going into T8
Aug 17, 2017, 8:12 am
#36
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Posts: 24,153
If I have the wall you are referring to correct, at 1 time there was AA T8 and UA T9 (or vice versa). When they rebuilt T8 they ended up leaving most of the footprint of the old T8 empty and use it as a parking area , just as B6 does with the old T6 area
But if AA down sizes enough (seems they will do so) then no extension will be needed as T8 today should be able to handle everything, with BA and IB probably using the gates located out onto the field due to the size of their aircrafts
the renters @ T7 will either go to T1 or T4 DL should knock down T2 and build a new term where T2 & 3 stood as well, with a walkway to T4 they use but try to get as many flights into a new term as they can, a DL Worldport. T2 is a hole
Aug 17, 2017, 5:55 pm
#37
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: PIT
Posts: 759
What is the total annual PHL-TATL O&D?
Aug 17, 2017, 6:49 pm
#38
Join Date: Sep 2015
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BA has been wanting to redo their T7 @ JFK, I think B6 wants to build a new term, so if AA does enough cutbacks Im wondering if BA would simply move into AAs T8 and let B6 have the footprint of T7 and the old T6 (which they now use as a parking area) to build a new Term maybe with CBP to handle its Intl flights they now have , as well as European flights should they enter that mkt. along with IB going into T8
Not sure about the total annual PHL-TATL O&D, but I have some figures for some routes.
PHL-LHR: ~210 PDEW
PHL-CDG: ~90-95 PDEW
PHL-FCO: ~90 PDEW
PHL-FRA: ~85 PDEW
PHL-DUB: ~50-55 PDEW
PHL-MAN: ~50 PDEW
PHL-MAD: ~50 PDEW
Every other city is below 50. Of course, it varies based on the time of year and I do not know the month by month numbers, but it is not a lot. For a simple comparison, NYC-ZRH, which is getting cut for PHL-ZRH, has ~18x more O&D traffic.
Aug 18, 2017, 8:34 pm
#39
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: LON and NYC
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K
Posts: 22
Although AA flies the A321T to SFO, and they have the best hard and soft product of any airline on the route, they're only barely making an effort at competing. Today was a typical Friday where they had just four flights, with the latest scheduled to depart at 5:30pm. This isn't doable if working a full day in NYC, and many weekends see just three flights. These schedules just aren't competitive with DL or B6, or of course UA if EWR works (as it does for many in Manhattan).
Aug 19, 2017, 6:35 am
#40
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I have never understood why BA never moved into T8. It is a really nice terminal and it would make connections much easier. Same goes for IB, CX, and OpenSkies. BA should take the money they would invest in a renovated T7 and use it to build a couple more gates past 14/16 at T8.
T7 also much nicer post-renovation, with IMO better F&B options.
IIRC BA also owns T7 and thus has control over what they want to do w/it...guessing they would lose that w/T8.
If you're not in CX F, IMO while the BA lounges in T7 aren't great, they're still better F&B-wise than their T8 counterparts (though less well lit).
Aug 20, 2017, 9:13 am
#41
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Although AA flies the A321T to SFO, and they have the best hard and soft product of any airline on the route, they're only barely making an effort at competing. Today was a typical Friday where they had just four flights, with the latest scheduled to depart at 5:30pm. This isn't doable if working a full day in NYC, and many weekends see just three flights. These schedules just aren't competitive with DL or B6, or of course UA if EWR works (as it does for many in Manhattan).
- Fri/Sat/Sun are more leisure heavy for transcons, and AA doesn't do as well with leisure due to the lack of economy seats. They don't seem to have enough paid business travel for these days
Aug 21, 2017, 3:01 pm
#43
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This has been covered pretty extensively in recent threads and posts.
(like this one from today: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...l#post28717270 )
Summary answer: the party's over.
(like this one from today: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...l#post28717270 )
Summary answer: the party's over.
Aug 21, 2017, 3:39 pm
#45
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That's one way of describing it-- just not a particularly accurate one.