Speculation: Will AA continue to pull back in NYC?
Aug 23, 2017 | 6:36 pm
#121
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Corporate contract is different from a subsidy. AA surely has corporate clients that use RDU-LHR. They used to have a revenue guarantee in place on RDU-LHR from a non-government consortium (also totally different from a subsidy), but a number of published sources and FT threads have repeatedly stated that they never had to invoke it. In other words, the flight is/was generating more revenue organically than had been guaranteed.
Certainly, I agree that any new route to LHR operated by AA from a non-hub would likely coincide with (new?) corporate contracts. It's also quite possible that they could receive incentives from the airport authority (such as waived landing fees).
Certainly, I agree that any new route to LHR operated by AA from a non-hub would likely coincide with (new?) corporate contracts. It's also quite possible that they could receive incentives from the airport authority (such as waived landing fees).
It's been a very profitable route for AA. Even without the contracts it will live on, but I do not believe it would have started without it.
Aug 23, 2017 | 6:36 pm
#122
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I think one of IND/CMH/CLE/PIT with a 75L would be most likely to start a new route -- it seems like less initial risk. And based on how non-hub RDU got flights to CDG/LHR, there are probably some benefits being worked out for AA.
Aug 23, 2017 | 6:48 pm
#123
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All AA hubs have service to LHR, plus RDU, MSY, AUS, SJC, SFO, ATL, SAN, IAD, BWI, BOS, DEN, EWR, LAS, SEA, PDX, SLC, DTW, and IAH.
That leaves CVG, CLE, IND, STL, CMH, and PIT without service to LHR. (MCO/TPA/FLL/OAK have LGW)
Although I am biased, I personally see IND as being the one because AA wouldn't have to worry about WW/FI/e.t.c eating into yields(unlike STL/CLE/CVG/PIT). And, as I mentioned earlier, IND is the largest unserved US destination from Europe and has high average fares as well. Subsidies are ready to go also. With CVG DL already has corporate contracts with the major employers, and with PIT I'm hearing Aer Lingus is planning to announce flights soon so I doubt there is space for EI/DL/WW/DE/and AA to all go TATL from PIT.
Presumably, AA could work out contracts with Rolls-Royce/Cummins/Eli Lilly/and or Roche for cargo and or pax...
That leaves CVG, CLE, IND, STL, CMH, and PIT without service to LHR. (MCO/TPA/FLL/OAK have LGW)
Although I am biased, I personally see IND as being the one because AA wouldn't have to worry about WW/FI/e.t.c eating into yields(unlike STL/CLE/CVG/PIT). And, as I mentioned earlier, IND is the largest unserved US destination from Europe and has high average fares as well. Subsidies are ready to go also. With CVG DL already has corporate contracts with the major employers, and with PIT I'm hearing Aer Lingus is planning to announce flights soon so I doubt there is space for EI/DL/WW/DE/and AA to all go TATL from PIT.
Presumably, AA could work out contracts with Rolls-Royce/Cummins/Eli Lilly/and or Roche for cargo and or pax...
Last edited by MIDWESTERNFLYER; Aug 23, 2017 at 6:58 pm
Aug 23, 2017 | 7:02 pm
#124
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If memory serves, I think IND and CMH are the only airports that have never had nonstop service to Europe, that I know of. CVG, CLE, STL, and PIT were all hubs at some point and had service that has since been pulled.
Aug 23, 2017 | 7:14 pm
#125
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Aug 23, 2017 | 7:44 pm
#126
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Aug 23, 2017 | 7:52 pm
#127
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Also, why would BA increase frequency two weeks ago if AA was going to add service LHR-PHX service soon?
Aug 23, 2017 | 7:53 pm
#128
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Aug 23, 2017 | 9:47 pm
#129
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For what it's worth, there were reports in the Columbus media 2-3 years ago verifying CRAA was in talks with BA about service. The story about "London nonstops" then popped back up at the start of 2016 on the local ABC affiliate (WSYX).
A BA 787 would be too much airplane for CMH, but an AA 757? Might not be a bad place to start. AA has actually gotten around DL to become #2 in market share at CMH behind WN.
edit- Come to think of it, there have been ongoing renovations at CMH for about that length of time. Maybe that was a holdup?
A BA 787 would be too much airplane for CMH, but an AA 757? Might not be a bad place to start. AA has actually gotten around DL to become #2 in market share at CMH behind WN.
edit- Come to think of it, there have been ongoing renovations at CMH for about that length of time. Maybe that was a holdup?
Last edited by JSprague24; Aug 23, 2017 at 9:54 pm
Aug 23, 2017 | 9:51 pm
#130
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I don't think filling FC with paid customers was ever a precondition to the profitability of a domestic route (exception being the significantly less dense premium transcon aircraft configurations).
But filling it with business travelers that skew toward more expensive (i.e., less advance purchase) fares certainly is important, and this schedule is pretty terrible for business travelers (IMO). Not to mention that business travelers want options, not one daily flight.
But filling it with business travelers that skew toward more expensive (i.e., less advance purchase) fares certainly is important, and this schedule is pretty terrible for business travelers (IMO). Not to mention that business travelers want options, not one daily flight.
Aug 23, 2017 | 10:03 pm
#131
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For what it's worth, there were reports in the Columbus media 2-3 years ago verifying CRAA was in talks with BA about service. The story about "London nonstops" then popped back up at the start of 2016 on the local ABC affiliate (WSYX).
A BA 787 would be too much airplane for CMH, but an AA 757? Might not be a bad place to start. AA has actually gotten around DL to become #2 in market share at CMH behind WN.
edit- Come to think of it, there have been ongoing renovations at CMH for about that length of time. Maybe that was a holdup?
A BA 787 would be too much airplane for CMH, but an AA 757? Might not be a bad place to start. AA has actually gotten around DL to become #2 in market share at CMH behind WN.
edit- Come to think of it, there have been ongoing renovations at CMH for about that length of time. Maybe that was a holdup?
^^ According to the Indiana Secretary of Commerce, there were talks this summer between an airline and IND about service to London, and at the time he said it would be announced in a "matter of months." Earlier in the summer, the Airport director for IND echoed the same sentiment about an announcement in late summer/early fall...
Aug 24, 2017 | 6:49 am
#132
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This is a classic utilization flight, gone from JFK 20:50-05:35. With fuel prices reasonably low, I don't see why AA needs paid F or business travelers to keep utilization flights covering costs at the least, and they don't have anything better to do with a domestic airframe at that hour. And if you're not willing to fly a redeye, you're no worse off than you were before AA started offering this flight.
Aug 24, 2017 | 10:15 am
#133
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STL just announced Rejkavik service starting May 2018 on WOW, while "talks continue with BA on STL-LHR nonstop," according to local business reporting.
Aug 24, 2017 | 11:03 am
#134
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I think it is great that the route is introduced, but perhaps when I saw it, I confused it with B6 as the times are so.... jetBlue.
Aug 24, 2017 | 11:24 am
#135
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I feel like the new LHR flight, if it's in the Midwest, is going to come down to if AA/BA want to go head-to-head with the Icelandic or have a market all to themselves. If it's the former, CLE and STL are in play. If not, CMH or IND.
Even then, wasn't there talk DL seemed more interested in launching IND-AMS?
Even then, wasn't there talk DL seemed more interested in launching IND-AMS?