Baby Stroller Incident on AA591 SFO>DFW April 21st
Apr 22, 2017, 12:49 pm
#241
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bay Area
Programs: UA 1k now; AA (no status); HY Diamond; SPG Platinum
Posts: 707
OK. Here is my 2 cents:
1. Mom is overloaded with a way too large back pack. She needs to understand that now she has a child she can no longer be a "foot loose free spirit"!
2. Mom began crying INSTANTLY--the mother is a spoiled rotten child in and of her own Self!
3. She looks like she immediately began "protesting" exactly like a spoiled child does--she is looking around for some place to put the stroller so "it will be ok". Rather than having a conversation with the employee to reach a negotiated resolution.
IMHO--mom and baby should have been put off the airplane to re-consider growing up!
1. Mom is overloaded with a way too large back pack. She needs to understand that now she has a child she can no longer be a "foot loose free spirit"!
2. Mom began crying INSTANTLY--the mother is a spoiled rotten child in and of her own Self!
3. She looks like she immediately began "protesting" exactly like a spoiled child does--she is looking around for some place to put the stroller so "it will be ok". Rather than having a conversation with the employee to reach a negotiated resolution.
IMHO--mom and baby should have been put off the airplane to re-consider growing up!
1. She likely have bought two tickets since one child is in car seat and the other is on her hand. So technically she is not overloaded. As she is allowed 2 piece of carryon. FAA rule would not allow her to sit two kids on her lap. So you are wrong here.
2. From the video, you can clearly see a red spot on her forehead. The 2nd woman passenger also came to defend the mom. She was later intereviewd and confirmed that the FA hit the mom and missed the child in the car seat.
3. Negotiate what? She got hit on forehead. What do you expect her to do. Continue to get beat up?
Apr 22, 2017, 12:51 pm
#242
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bay Area
Programs: UA 1k now; AA (no status); HY Diamond; SPG Platinum
Posts: 707
Apr 22, 2017, 12:51 pm
#243
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 181
Well, I guess the APA won't be able to come out and toss their "regional partners" under the bus like ALPA did.
Apr 22, 2017, 12:52 pm
#244
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: DSM
Programs: UA Platinum, Hilton Diamond, Hertz Pres. Circle
Posts: 235
I'm surprised that the male passenger was permitted to stay onboard but I'm also surprised that the flight attendant was also permitted to remain. The captain shown in the video appears to be the most passive pilot I've ever seen. I would have expected the captain to eject both the FA and the aggressive male passenger. Of course, that would have likely cancelled the flight, a result nobody wanted.
I recognize the flight attendant. Perhaps some time spent at the re-education camp in Fort Worth will do him some good. He obviously needs a refresher course on how to behave.
I recognize the flight attendant. Perhaps some time spent at the re-education camp in Fort Worth will do him some good. He obviously needs a refresher course on how to behave.
Are we positive this person was a flight attendant? Seems more probable that he was a gate agent. I wouldn't let the AA employee and the Alpha male passenger to share the same flight.
Apr 22, 2017, 12:53 pm
#245
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 61
Generally speaking ........ Airline crew have always made their customer's safety and comfort a priority. This appears to have changed, drastically. I believe a "court of law" realignment will soon happen.
Apr 22, 2017, 12:55 pm
#246
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wesley Chapel, FL
Programs: American Airlines
Posts: 30,065
Apr 22, 2017, 1:05 pm
#247
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,990
I think:
a. AA has handled this very well after the fact
b. That sorry excuse of a flight attendant should never be allowed on a plane again
Cheers,
a. AA has handled this very well after the fact
b. That sorry excuse of a flight attendant should never be allowed on a plane again
Cheers,
Apr 22, 2017, 1:05 pm
#248
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,092
I honestly don't see a strategic solution that doesn't involve some kind of new government regulations. The airlines are proving that they are incapable of handling the customer service part of their business. So:
-Change the minimum FA ratio from 1:50 to 1:40. FAs are indeed over stressed from having so many boarding and service issues. Time to give them extra support in the form of additional staff. This also increases the odds that a belligerent FA can be countered by other, more rational staff.
-Mandate a minimum seat pitch of 32 inches.
-Mandate a minimum seat width of 17.5 inches.
-Require all airlines to allow each passenger to check one 50 pound bag free.
Is time to stop the cramming and "human cargo" paradigm.
-Change the minimum FA ratio from 1:50 to 1:40. FAs are indeed over stressed from having so many boarding and service issues. Time to give them extra support in the form of additional staff. This also increases the odds that a belligerent FA can be countered by other, more rational staff.
-Mandate a minimum seat pitch of 32 inches.
-Mandate a minimum seat width of 17.5 inches.
-Require all airlines to allow each passenger to check one 50 pound bag free.
Is time to stop the cramming and "human cargo" paradigm.
Apr 22, 2017, 1:06 pm
#249
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: LIT
Programs: Blinged Out
Posts: 716
When the other passengers in the video seem to be defending the actions of the passenger who was affected, it is generally a good sign that airline staff, in that particular situation, on some level are wrong.
I've seen plenty of videos of unruly passengers being confronted, and if they are truly in the wrong, the other passengers will side with airline staff or LEOs.
In the case of Dr. Dao, most people agree that it was badly handled by United and the Chicago airport authorities.
In this case, it seems that the male flight attendant was way out of line, but the male passenger escalated it quickly as well. As far as the female pax with the stroller - unless she flippantly disregarded a GA's orders about having it gate checked, I don't see why it had to be escalated to the point of a shouting match/bodily injury from the male FA.
Overall, AA got out in front of this way quicker than UA. It's not pretty, but the outrage was not allowed to grow. I certainly hope AA does the right thing and frees up the male employee's future.
I've seen plenty of videos of unruly passengers being confronted, and if they are truly in the wrong, the other passengers will side with airline staff or LEOs.
In the case of Dr. Dao, most people agree that it was badly handled by United and the Chicago airport authorities.
In this case, it seems that the male flight attendant was way out of line, but the male passenger escalated it quickly as well. As far as the female pax with the stroller - unless she flippantly disregarded a GA's orders about having it gate checked, I don't see why it had to be escalated to the point of a shouting match/bodily injury from the male FA.
Overall, AA got out in front of this way quicker than UA. It's not pretty, but the outrage was not allowed to grow. I certainly hope AA does the right thing and frees up the male employee's future.
Last edited by SeaHawg; Apr 22, 2017 at 1:13 pm
Apr 22, 2017, 1:08 pm
#250
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,954
And diaper bags explicitly don't count towards the one carry-on plus one personal item per paying passenger limit anyway:
Your personal item must fit under the seat in front of you. Dimensions should not exceed 18 x 14 x 8 inches (45 x 35 x 20 cm ).
Basic Economy customers are only allowed 1 personal item. All other bags must be checked.
Diaper bags (1 per child), child safety seats and medical or mobility devices don’t count as your personal item or carry-on.
Basic Economy customers are only allowed 1 personal item. All other bags must be checked.
Diaper bags (1 per child), child safety seats and medical or mobility devices don’t count as your personal item or carry-on.
Apr 22, 2017, 1:09 pm
#251
Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: United: 1K
Posts: 390
This isn't about complying with the rules, it is what happens when the crew makes demands that are contrary to the airline rules.
Apr 22, 2017, 1:10 pm
#252
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
No, I'm not positive that the employee was a flight attendant, but like others have said, the wings on his shirt are indicative of flight attendant, not gate agent. Nearly every witness and the mainstream press have identified him as a flight attendant, not a gate agent.
Apr 22, 2017, 1:15 pm
#253
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,954
I believe discussion about the size of the stroller, whether it was allowed, etc. is irrelevant. That is not the issue. Let's assume, for sake of argument, that
1) the stroller was too large
2) the woman was told not to bring it aboard
3) she disobeyed the FA in bringing it aboard
EVEN if these things are true, it still is not OK for an airline employee to become violent with a passenger. Is that, at least, something we mostly agree on?
1) the stroller was too large
2) the woman was told not to bring it aboard
3) she disobeyed the FA in bringing it aboard
EVEN if these things are true, it still is not OK for an airline employee to become violent with a passenger. Is that, at least, something we mostly agree on?
But if the answer to any of your three questions is yes, the woman would also be out of line, though in a much less serious and much more forgivable way than the FA. That said, it appears that all three of your premises were not true anyway, which puts the woman all the more in the clear.
Apr 22, 2017, 1:16 pm
#254
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 245
And there's at least one witness on Reddit who reported being served by him later in the flight.
Apr 22, 2017, 1:17 pm
#255
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: LX Senator; AF Platinum and Club 2000; AA Platinum for life (former EXP)
Posts: 494
The Core Problem
There is one systemic problem that is the elephant in the room. The airline business is a service business. The customer is supposed to be respected, valued and served. For too many airline employees, this is either forgotten or never learned. I think the airline should have teams of spies to observe how their employees interact with customers. When a bad attitude is spotted, that employee should be fired. Union contracts lie at the center of the problem since it is too difficult to get rid of the bad apples. That should be changed.
No airline in the world is perfect, but UA and AA have a lot of work to do if they want to be competitive with the best foreign carriers.
No airline in the world is perfect, but UA and AA have a lot of work to do if they want to be competitive with the best foreign carriers.