Booking AA Award travel on Etihad / EY - [2015-17 ARCHIVE]
Sep 24, 2017, 8:11 pm
#3181
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WAS
Programs: AA EXP2M, DL 1MM DM ext, UA PP <=> HH G/Marr PE/Hyatt G/IHG P FT RA ( Recovering Addict)
Posts: 4,596
Sep 24, 2017, 8:31 pm
#3182
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,632
I have been tracking the blocking of seats by calling AA daily under different accounts....
- MORE THAN 3 weeks out Premium Blocked by AA ...
- LESS THAN 3 weeks out AA unblocks premium awards...
2 & 3 are new and due to AA blocking premium cabin on EY...
For some reason, Non-US routes are always not blocked by AA (so far). I think this is to keep the Non-US customers (non-captive) happy with AA, while keeping the US customers (captive) unhappy but with nowhere else to go after accumulating miles, other than on BA cabins with high fees.
- MORE THAN 3 weeks out Premium Blocked by AA ...
- LESS THAN 3 weeks out AA unblocks premium awards...
2 & 3 are new and due to AA blocking premium cabin on EY...
For some reason, Non-US routes are always not blocked by AA (so far). I think this is to keep the Non-US customers (non-captive) happy with AA, while keeping the US customers (captive) unhappy but with nowhere else to go after accumulating miles, other than on BA cabins with high fees.
(a) Did you check all USA gateways, or just some? I suspect they are not all the same.
(b) Why do you say AA is doing the blocking? The motivations you ascribe to AA are somewhat far-fetched, although I guess they're not impossible. EY competes with BA awards only at the edges, since USA-Europe, where there is the biggest demand for awards, is not accessible via EY. More generally, I am not sure why AA would want to push people to BA. It is more likely that EY is doing the blocking because it may be unhappy with its compensation for J/F awards using EY miles, or maybe it wants to save more J/F awards for its own members---but this is also pure speculation.
Changing an award from Y to J or F does not incur a change fee, it doesn't matter whether one is EXP.
Sep 24, 2017, 8:35 pm
#3183
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,600
I have been tracking the blocking of seats by calling AA daily under different accounts. In fact my significant other and I have both been calling 2-3 per day for past 2-3 weeks
This is the current state of blocking
1
No Guest Seat - NO SPACE whether booking EY or AA
This is ETIHAD BLOCKING SAVER SEATS TO SELL IF AT ALL POSSIBLE
2
- MORE THAN 3 weeks out Premium Blocked by AA
Etihad shows availability in Guest;
AA agent can see economy but NOT PREMIUM CABIN seats
At least US, UK, Trinidad and Fiji. I called all 4 numbers
(The latter 2 are for the Aus numbers at different times of the day)
3
- LESS THAN 3 weeks out AA unblocks premium awards
If guest seat open, AA agent can see it and Book in PREMIUM CABIN
(and economy as always)
4
- LESS THAN 1 week out EY unblocks SAVER seats in premium cabins
Now one sees a whole lot of Guest space open up which was not there before
1 & 4 above I have known for a while and routinely set my search to 1 week ahead at 6 AM US EST and I always found new space.
2 & 3 are new and due to AA blocking premium cabin on EY
QR is similar but less obvious as there are fewer seats on QR c/w EY
For some reason, Non-US routes are always not blocked by AA (so far).
I think this is to keep the Non-US customers (non-captive) happy with AA, while keeping the US customers (captive) unhappy but with nowhere else to go after accumulating miles, other than on BA cabins with high fees.
It does not matter to us as we have EXP, so we can change miles awards on AA, but the vast majority of EY bookings will now incur change fees, if premium cabins are not open at first.
This is the current state of blocking
1
No Guest Seat - NO SPACE whether booking EY or AA
This is ETIHAD BLOCKING SAVER SEATS TO SELL IF AT ALL POSSIBLE
2
- MORE THAN 3 weeks out Premium Blocked by AA
Etihad shows availability in Guest;
AA agent can see economy but NOT PREMIUM CABIN seats
At least US, UK, Trinidad and Fiji. I called all 4 numbers
(The latter 2 are for the Aus numbers at different times of the day)
3
- LESS THAN 3 weeks out AA unblocks premium awards
If guest seat open, AA agent can see it and Book in PREMIUM CABIN
(and economy as always)
4
- LESS THAN 1 week out EY unblocks SAVER seats in premium cabins
Now one sees a whole lot of Guest space open up which was not there before
1 & 4 above I have known for a while and routinely set my search to 1 week ahead at 6 AM US EST and I always found new space.
2 & 3 are new and due to AA blocking premium cabin on EY
QR is similar but less obvious as there are fewer seats on QR c/w EY
For some reason, Non-US routes are always not blocked by AA (so far).
I think this is to keep the Non-US customers (non-captive) happy with AA, while keeping the US customers (captive) unhappy but with nowhere else to go after accumulating miles, other than on BA cabins with high fees.
It does not matter to us as we have EXP, so we can change miles awards on AA, but the vast majority of EY bookings will now incur change fees, if premium cabins are not open at first.
All you have shown is that the agent can or can not find availability in some specific searches - why the agent cannot see availability is not known ; it could be AA or it could be EY
Sep 25, 2017, 2:21 am
#3186
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
Thanks very much for going through the trouble of compiling and posting this info.
I have been tracking the blocking of seats by calling AA daily under different accounts. In fact my significant other and I have both been calling 2-3 per day for past 2-3 weeks
This is the current state of blocking
1
No Guest Seat - NO SPACE whether booking EY or AA
This is ETIHAD BLOCKING SAVER SEATS TO SELL IF AT ALL POSSIBLE
2
- MORE THAN 3 weeks out Premium Blocked by AA
Etihad shows availability in Guest;
AA agent can see economy but NOT PREMIUM CABIN seats
At least US, UK, Trinidad and Fiji. I called all 4 numbers
(The latter 2 are for the Aus numbers at different times of the day)
3
- LESS THAN 3 weeks out AA unblocks premium awards
If guest seat open, AA agent can see it and Book in PREMIUM CABIN
(and economy as always)
4
- LESS THAN 1 week out EY unblocks SAVER seats in premium cabins
Now one sees a whole lot of Guest space open up which was not there before
1 & 4 above I have known for a while and routinely set my search to 1 week ahead at 6 AM US EST and I always found new space.
2 & 3 are new and due to AA blocking premium cabin on EY
QR is similar but less obvious as there are fewer seats on QR c/w EY
For some reason, Non-US routes are always not blocked by AA (so far).
I think this is to keep the Non-US customers (non-captive) happy with AA, while keeping the US customers (captive) unhappy but with nowhere else to go after accumulating miles, other than on BA cabins with high fees.
It does not matter to us as we have EXP, so we can change miles awards on AA, but the vast majority of EY bookings will now incur change fees, if premium cabins are not open at first.
This is the current state of blocking
1
No Guest Seat - NO SPACE whether booking EY or AA
This is ETIHAD BLOCKING SAVER SEATS TO SELL IF AT ALL POSSIBLE
2
- MORE THAN 3 weeks out Premium Blocked by AA
Etihad shows availability in Guest;
AA agent can see economy but NOT PREMIUM CABIN seats
At least US, UK, Trinidad and Fiji. I called all 4 numbers
(The latter 2 are for the Aus numbers at different times of the day)
3
- LESS THAN 3 weeks out AA unblocks premium awards
If guest seat open, AA agent can see it and Book in PREMIUM CABIN
(and economy as always)
4
- LESS THAN 1 week out EY unblocks SAVER seats in premium cabins
Now one sees a whole lot of Guest space open up which was not there before
1 & 4 above I have known for a while and routinely set my search to 1 week ahead at 6 AM US EST and I always found new space.
2 & 3 are new and due to AA blocking premium cabin on EY
QR is similar but less obvious as there are fewer seats on QR c/w EY
For some reason, Non-US routes are always not blocked by AA (so far).
I think this is to keep the Non-US customers (non-captive) happy with AA, while keeping the US customers (captive) unhappy but with nowhere else to go after accumulating miles, other than on BA cabins with high fees.
It does not matter to us as we have EXP, so we can change miles awards on AA, but the vast majority of EY bookings will now incur change fees, if premium cabins are not open at first.
Sep 25, 2017, 9:34 am
#3187
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: AA PPro, 1MM
Posts: 505
I have been tracking the blocking of seats by calling AA daily under different accounts. In fact my significant other and I have both been calling 2-3 per day for past 2-3 weeks
This is the current state of blocking
1
No Guest Seat - NO SPACE whether booking EY or AA
This is ETIHAD BLOCKING SAVER SEATS TO SELL IF AT ALL POSSIBLE
2
- MORE THAN 3 weeks out Premium Blocked by AA
Etihad shows availability in Guest;
AA agent can see economy but NOT PREMIUM CABIN seats
At least US, UK, Trinidad and Fiji. I called all 4 numbers
(The latter 2 are for the Aus numbers at different times of the day)
3
- LESS THAN 3 weeks out AA unblocks premium awards
If guest seat open, AA agent can see it and Book in PREMIUM CABIN
(and economy as always)
4
- LESS THAN 1 week out EY unblocks SAVER seats in premium cabins
Now one sees a whole lot of Guest space open up which was not there before
1 & 4 above I have known for a while and routinely set my search to 1 week ahead at 6 AM US EST and I always found new space.
2 & 3 are new and due to AA blocking premium cabin on EY
QR is similar but less obvious as there are fewer seats on QR c/w EY
For some reason, Non-US routes are always not blocked by AA (so far).
I think this is to keep the Non-US customers (non-captive) happy with AA, while keeping the US customers (captive) unhappy but with nowhere else to go after accumulating miles, other than on BA cabins with high fees.
It does not matter to us as we have EXP, so we can change miles awards on AA, but the vast majority of EY bookings will now incur change fees, if premium cabins are not open at first.
This is the current state of blocking
1
No Guest Seat - NO SPACE whether booking EY or AA
This is ETIHAD BLOCKING SAVER SEATS TO SELL IF AT ALL POSSIBLE
2
- MORE THAN 3 weeks out Premium Blocked by AA
Etihad shows availability in Guest;
AA agent can see economy but NOT PREMIUM CABIN seats
At least US, UK, Trinidad and Fiji. I called all 4 numbers
(The latter 2 are for the Aus numbers at different times of the day)
3
- LESS THAN 3 weeks out AA unblocks premium awards
If guest seat open, AA agent can see it and Book in PREMIUM CABIN
(and economy as always)
4
- LESS THAN 1 week out EY unblocks SAVER seats in premium cabins
Now one sees a whole lot of Guest space open up which was not there before
1 & 4 above I have known for a while and routinely set my search to 1 week ahead at 6 AM US EST and I always found new space.
2 & 3 are new and due to AA blocking premium cabin on EY
QR is similar but less obvious as there are fewer seats on QR c/w EY
For some reason, Non-US routes are always not blocked by AA (so far).
I think this is to keep the Non-US customers (non-captive) happy with AA, while keeping the US customers (captive) unhappy but with nowhere else to go after accumulating miles, other than on BA cabins with high fees.
It does not matter to us as we have EXP, so we can change miles awards on AA, but the vast majority of EY bookings will now incur change fees, if premium cabins are not open at first.
Sep 25, 2017, 10:42 am
#3188
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WAS
Programs: AA EXP2M, DL 1MM DM ext, UA PP <=> HH G/Marr PE/Hyatt G/IHG P FT RA ( Recovering Addict)
Posts: 4,596
US gateways - Blocking JFK is due to EY not releasing saver awards
- it is their best seat and they want to sell it - They have good loads on that flight in premium
IAD/SFO etc
SFO - EY is losing market share to AI and is down to 3 days a week.
Their load factors are low and they still want to block?
No way - that is AA - This is the same team while at US blocked LH F space
Yes, changing awards to F is fine, but what if you do not have space later on.
I am not saying ALL DAYS HAVE C/F space; I am saying that even when they do it is blocked.
A non EXP would have to hope that space opens up or it is 150$ cash out or a long trip in Y
I have been able to call Jet and they "saw" space that is open to EY guest Saver awards same as on the EY websites, so it is not all partners not seeing space. It is AA not showing space to agents (US initially, now worldwide)
I have not gone the ANA route, as my account needs miles and I do not want to waste 100k Amex MR just to check. I would rather use it on EY when I need to for an emergency.
I only have trouble to UK and US. My trips AUH-LHR are a distant memory now.
- it is their best seat and they want to sell it - They have good loads on that flight in premium
IAD/SFO etc
SFO - EY is losing market share to AI and is down to 3 days a week.
Their load factors are low and they still want to block?
No way - that is AA - This is the same team while at US blocked LH F space
Yes, changing awards to F is fine, but what if you do not have space later on.
I am not saying ALL DAYS HAVE C/F space; I am saying that even when they do it is blocked.
A non EXP would have to hope that space opens up or it is 150$ cash out or a long trip in Y
Thank you for doing all this research! Questions:
(a) Did you check all USA gateways, or just some? I suspect they are not all the same.
(b) Why do you say AA is doing the blocking? The motivations you ascribe to AA are somewhat far-fetched, although I guess they're not impossible. EY competes with BA awards only at the edges, since USA-Europe, where there is the biggest demand for awards, is not accessible via EY. More generally, I am not sure why AA would want to push people to BA. It is more likely that EY is doing the blocking because it may be unhappy with its compensation for J/F awards using EY miles, or maybe it wants to save more J/F awards for its own members---but this is also pure speculation.
Changing an award from Y to J or F does not incur a change fee, it doesn't matter whether one is EXP.
(a) Did you check all USA gateways, or just some? I suspect they are not all the same.
(b) Why do you say AA is doing the blocking? The motivations you ascribe to AA are somewhat far-fetched, although I guess they're not impossible. EY competes with BA awards only at the edges, since USA-Europe, where there is the biggest demand for awards, is not accessible via EY. More generally, I am not sure why AA would want to push people to BA. It is more likely that EY is doing the blocking because it may be unhappy with its compensation for J/F awards using EY miles, or maybe it wants to save more J/F awards for its own members---but this is also pure speculation.
Changing an award from Y to J or F does not incur a change fee, it doesn't matter whether one is EXP.
I have not gone the ANA route, as my account needs miles and I do not want to waste 100k Amex MR just to check. I would rather use it on EY when I need to for an emergency.
Last edited by ffI; Sep 25, 2017 at 10:57 am
Sep 25, 2017, 10:48 am
#3189
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: WAS
Programs: AA EXP2M, DL 1MM DM ext, UA PP <=> HH G/Marr PE/Hyatt G/IHG P FT RA ( Recovering Addict)
Posts: 4,596
Sep 25, 2017, 1:08 pm
#3190
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,632
That experiment proves nothing. It could just as well be EY not showing space to AA (US initially, now worldwide), which is the operating hypothesis on this thread. If you have real data refuting that, this would be great.
Sep 25, 2017, 1:18 pm
#3191
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NY, NY
Posts: 695
I tried calling mexico, colombia, etc.. and same result: AA couldn't see the EY F saver award space from AUH-JFK for late-March 2018
Sep 25, 2017, 2:48 pm
#3192
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 179
I know we have all been having lots of "fun" with this, but I would like to bring a new issue to everyone's attention. After having given up hope with booking first/biz from AMD to JFK, I went to book the economy flight that has been previously available and all the CSRs have been mentioning as available. The CSR today was not able to find any availability on economy AMD - JFK in January 2018 even with etihad guest availability. Tried both US and NZ call centers. She was able to book AMD - AUH and AUH - JFK as separate tickets but was not able to book both legs under the same flight. Has anyone had this happen before, and successfully merge the two legs under one reservation? Right now it would cost 40k + 17.5k points when it should just be 40k.................I'm really getting tired of these games. Where does the line cross into false advertising?
Sep 25, 2017, 3:20 pm
#3193
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 623
I know we have all been having lots of "fun" with this, but I would like to bring a new issue to everyone's attention. After having given up hope with booking first/biz from AMD to JFK, I went to book the economy flight that has been previously available and all the CSRs have been mentioning as available. The CSR today was not able to find any availability on economy AMD - JFK in January 2018 even with etihad guest availability. Tried both US and NZ call centers. She was able to book AMD - AUH and AUH - JFK as separate tickets but was not able to book both legs under the same flight. Has anyone had this happen before, and successfully merge the two legs under one reservation? Right now it would cost 40k + 17.5k points when it should just be 40k.................I'm really getting tired of these games. Where does the line cross into false advertising?