Mar 7, 2014, 1:36 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
The current thread for discussing the 767-323ER Thompson Vantage Business Seats is https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1542143-boeing-767-300-763-thompson-vantage-business-seat-map-best-seats.html.
Moderator
Moderator
"CIP" Cabin Improvement Program Full Lie Flat Thompson Vantage Seat and All-Aisle Access. 16 of 24 with WiFi, Business with tablets for IFE.
See American Airlines Business Class Seat video in first post [/b][/center]
Due to thread and interest growth, please see 763 / 767 CIP New (2014) Business Seat and Map (master thread). BUSINESS SEAT and BUSINESS CABIN posts have moved to that thread.
NOTE: All currently flying 763s are refurbished.
100% of the active fleet have been converted (as of 30OCT17) (* = wifi available):
- N342AN*, N343AN*, N344AN*, N346AN*, N347AN*, N348AN*, N349AN*, N350AN*, N379AA, N381AN*, N384AA*, N385AM, N388AA, N389AA, N390AA, N391AA, N392AN, N393AN, N394AN, N395AN, N396AN, N397AN*, N398AN, and N399AN*.
The following 34 aircraft have been retired (as of 30OCT17):
- N345AN, N351AA, N352AA, N353AA, N354AA, N355AA, N357AA, N358AA, N39356, N359AA, N360AA, N361AA, N362AA, N363AA, N39364, N39365, N366AA, N39367, N368AA, N369AA, N370AA, N371AA, N372AA, N373AA, N374AA, N7375A, N376AN, N377AN, N378AN, N382AN, N383AN, N386AA, N387AM, N380AN (with N373AA being the final NGBC aircraft retired to Roswell on 30OCT17)
Program details:
- ~26 (46%) of AA's fleet of 57 763 / 767-323ERs have been retained and upgraded with a Cabin Improvement Program - 28 new horizontal lie-flat Thompson Vantage business seats, 14 MCE seats (row 11 gets removed as the business cabin is enlarged), and 163 coach / economy (including 14 exit row) seats. Other upgrades include international satellite Wi-Fi (refit started in 2016), 110V AC power outlets in the business cabin (MCE and coach will retain 15V DC cigarette-lighter style power), new overhead monitors and audio systems, and a refurbishment of lavatories and main cabin seats. No personal in-seat video system was installed - the premium cabin retain the Samsung Galaxy tablets (docked to seatbacks) on international flights, and the main cabin, as well as the premium cabin on domestic flights, will stay with shared overhead screens.
- These aircraft were refurbished for one reason: the AA/BA/IB/AY transatlantic joint business agreement requires that AA have lie-flat seats for transatlantic routes.
- Link to post with artist's rendition of new J cabin. Link to post with new seat maps as they appear in AA.com
- Link to airchive article including pictures, and Link to mycrewlife blog post with more renderings showing the business cabin.
- Link to FT Trip Report with images
- Link to AA's widebody CIP announcement. For 777 upgrades, see thread 777-200ER / 772 No First; New Business Announced 2014 (767 stuff moved).
J-cabin seat map:
Code:
A D G J 2 0_ 0_0_ _0 2 3 _0 _0_0 0_ 3 4 0_ 0_0_ _0 4 5 _0 _0_0 0_ 5 6 0_ 0_0_ _0 6 7 _0 _0_0 0_ 7 8 0_ 0_0_ _0 8 A D G J Legend: 0 = seat; _ = table
Note: the seats in C behind seats with smaller consoles (inside center) have smaller foot cubbies; those with large feet or shoes will feel cramped. Those over six feet will feel cramped if they lie supine in the fully flattened seat; sleeping slanted or side sleeping with bent legs is possible.
In Business they offer a 110 VAC multi-socket in the e-pad front tray area, and another, as well as USB and audio mini jack at shoulder height over and at the rear of the console. Seat controls are touch controls, and can involuntarily be operated by resting your forearm on the console.
The tray table is released with a button; it pivots out and folds. Table height may impede those who are portly or have long legs. Overhead bins, IFE monitors, lavs etc. have not been upgraded.
JDiver's mini-report here.
Contributors: sensei, SDQBound(former B7e7US), Longboater, Econometrics[/COLOR]
ARCHIVE: Boeing 767-300 / 763 "CIP" with Lie Flat Business (2014 CIP)
Mar 7, 2014, 5:15 pm
#121
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,397
So, is AA going to cheap out and leave their 763 Y cabin straight out of the 80's and looking beat up, like UA did on their 763's?
Have to say that having flown AA Y TATL, it looks pretty lame compared to DL Y on an A333. 777 video screen was blurry, and, well, the 763 Y video screen... hahaha.
I'll insert the obligatory "how
, flying in a Y cabin..." so any of you tempted can go ahead and skip that. This thread IS about the 763 renovations, and there ARE two cabins on the plane...
Have to say that having flown AA Y TATL, it looks pretty lame compared to DL Y on an A333. 777 video screen was blurry, and, well, the 763 Y video screen... hahaha.
I'll insert the obligatory "how
, flying in a Y cabin..." so any of you tempted can go ahead and skip that. This thread IS about the 763 renovations, and there ARE two cabins on the plane...
Mar 7, 2014, 5:18 pm
#122
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: SFO
Posts: 1,746
Other elements of the Boeing 767-300ER retrofit project include the installation of new LCD drop-down monitors, new digital audio systems, refreshed lavatories, and new seat covers and cushions in the Main Cabin.
Mar 7, 2014, 5:34 pm
#123
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Usually in SAN or Central Europe.
Programs: AA:EXP/1MM. Accor/Radisson:Silver; HH:Gold; ICH:Plt Amb.
Posts: 22,307
I'd actually prefer one less row of J seats on this bird and at least one more row of MCE seating. 14 MCE seats is not that promising, considering that AS and OW mid-tier (and higher) elites have access to them at booking. At least with UA, they greatly limit who has free access to Y+ and moreover, offer more Y+ seats per plane.
Mar 7, 2014, 5:40 pm
#124
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
I'd actually prefer one less row of J seats on this bird and at least one more row of MCE seating. 14 MCE seats is not that promising, considering that AS and OW mid-tier (and higher) elites have access to them at booking. At least with UA, they greatly limit who has free access to Y+ and moreover, offer more Y+ seats per plane.
Thankfully, they weren't able to find space for one more seat in the middle, a la "More Sardines Throughout Coach" they are deploying in the 777s, 3 x 3 x 3 to 3 x 4 x 3. Coach in the 763 may turn out to be more desirable than on the 777.
Mar 7, 2014, 6:07 pm
#125
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,397
Mar 7, 2014, 6:47 pm
#126
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: SFO
Posts: 1,746
For all we know they're doing a BSI rehaul... I didn't see the article say they aren't. The focus is on the J cabin refurb and it did mention power ports (although I can't remember if it clearly included Y or not, or unclear altogether).
Mar 7, 2014, 10:08 pm
#127
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: AA SPG Amex
Posts: 4,644
That's not why AA picked them. There is no other non-angled lie-flat product offered by any manufacturer on the market for the 767. It's this or angled lie flat.
At least AA stepped up it's game on the materials chosen. Delta uses the same seats and it looks like a joke.
At least AA stepped up it's game on the materials chosen. Delta uses the same seats and it looks like a joke.
Not strictly true, as LA has horizontal seats in a 6-across configuration on their 763s (see here), and IIRC the current Recaro seats AA has can be reprogrammed to go full horizontal (with additional pitch, of course).
I haven't done/seen the math, but I strongly believe that the new seats AA is installing (the Vantage II) have a higher density, which justify their purchase vs. spacing out the current Recaros to make them go horizontal. I am 100% sure that 100% aisle access is not driving the purchase, but it's a nice byproduct of the seat.
I won't comment on AA's choice of colors (as all marketing pictures are "optimized"/retouched and make anything look good) or materials (which you can't touch on pictures) until I actually see it.
I haven't done/seen the math, but I strongly believe that the new seats AA is installing (the Vantage II) have a higher density, which justify their purchase vs. spacing out the current Recaros to make them go horizontal. I am 100% sure that 100% aisle access is not driving the purchase, but it's a nice byproduct of the seat.
I won't comment on AA's choice of colors (as all marketing pictures are "optimized"/retouched and make anything look good) or materials (which you can't touch on pictures) until I actually see it.
We've argued this before: I will give credit that AA has had 0% recliner longhaul J seats since around 2008/2009, but AA has started installing an obsolete seat in 2006, when horizontal had been around since 1996 and most quality carriers were introducing horizontal. Many of us criticized AA's shortsightedness at the time.
However, I will say this: I'd take the 60in pitch recliners the 763 used to have over the current 763 J seats any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Not only was it a more comfortable lounging seat, it was one of the roomiest I've ever sat in in terms of not restricting one's movements with enclosures.
That is NOT true. All DL 763s have the new lie-flat seats. The only widebodies that do not have true lie-flat seats are a small number of A330s, which have a slanted seat probably equivalent to AA's.
Not saying that DL wasn't late to this -- they were. But AA missed the boat with the 2006 763 refits.
Not saying that DL wasn't late to this -- they were. But AA missed the boat with the 2006 763 refits.
Mar 7, 2014, 10:12 pm
#128
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: RBKC
Programs: AA EXP and Eurostar Carte Blanche
Posts: 3,851
I'd take the 60in pitch recliners the 763 used to have over the current 763 J seats any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Not only was it a more comfortable lounging seat, it was one of the roomiest I've ever sat in in terms of not restricting one's movements with enclosures.
I used to sleep really well in those recliners. Much better than the current ski slopes.
Mar 7, 2014, 10:25 pm
#129
Join Date: Apr 2010
Programs: AA Platinum, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 731
Relative who just got off a combined BA/AA itinerary in J with the AA portion on a 763 (and has previously mainly traveled EY and EK J) commented on how poor the seat was. Service seemed to be great though but meal orders online were not followed.
Mar 8, 2014, 4:39 am
#130
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
It is very unusual for any operator to invest -any- money in 763s at this point-- they are already considered "past tense" in the industry and even this investment by AA is only under the circumstances of the delays to the 787 and a couple of other delays.
As mentioned above, the *only* reason AA is even doing this is:
"AA did not want to retrofit any of the 767s business class wise, but the trans-Atlantic agreement with BA and Iberia required that by 2015 all business seat over the Atlantic be fully flat. The 767s are not going to be retired fast enough to make the fully flat goal, so about 25 of them are having the Thompson Solutions seat installed."
As mentioned above, the *only* reason AA is even doing this is:
"AA did not want to retrofit any of the 767s business class wise, but the trans-Atlantic agreement with BA and Iberia required that by 2015 all business seat over the Atlantic be fully flat. The 767s are not going to be retired fast enough to make the fully flat goal, so about 25 of them are having the Thompson Solutions seat installed."
Mar 8, 2014, 4:40 am
#131
Moderator: American AAdvantage, Signatures
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London, England
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador, National Exec, AA EXP Emeritus
Posts: 9,765
While true on a global scale, DL just finished their 763 flattification not too long ago. A year or maybe two? UA in that neighbourhood too. So I think from a direct-competitor standpoint there has been quite a bit of intercontinental 767 spend of late.
Mar 8, 2014, 4:42 am
#132
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: RBKC
Programs: AA EXP and Eurostar Carte Blanche
Posts: 3,851
As mentioned above, the *only* reason AA is even doing this is:
"AA did not want to retrofit any of the 767s business class wise, but the trans-Atlantic agreement with BA and Iberia required that by 2015 all business seat over the Atlantic be fully flat. The 767s are not going to be retired fast enough to make the fully flat goal, so about 25 of them are having the Thompson Solutions seat installed."
"AA did not want to retrofit any of the 767s business class wise, but the trans-Atlantic agreement with BA and Iberia required that by 2015 all business seat over the Atlantic be fully flat. The 767s are not going to be retired fast enough to make the fully flat goal, so about 25 of them are having the Thompson Solutions seat installed."
Mar 8, 2014, 5:00 am
#133
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
There has, but this is most definitely the last of it-- and something that AA would absolutely -not- be doing absent the requirements of the TATL JBV. It's a necessary evil at this point, but also explains why no major investment in IFE on these planes-- would be just more money down the drain at this point.
Mar 8, 2014, 5:15 am
#134
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
But, yes, a benefit for sure as a result of the JBV, although the hope was clearly to be providing same on a mix of 77Ws, refurbed 772s-- which will be getting yet another, different, J-seat from this one and a sprinkling of 787s by then, -not- to have to pour all this money into 763s at this point. AA had written off the 763s in terms of putting any more $$ into them (beyond the basics, obviously) 3 years ago when they decided -not- to design/research a replacement seat for NGBC on 763 while at the same time researching same for 772 and 787. 77w came along so quickly that they never even had a chance to do anything other than Cirrus seat, line-fit by Boeing.
Mar 8, 2014, 5:33 am
#135
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: JFK/LGA
Programs: AA EXP/5 MM, BA Blue Bayou, HH LT Diamond
Posts: 5,828
However, I will say this: I'd take the 60in pitch recliners the 763 used to have over the current 763 J seats any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Not only was it a more comfortable lounging seat, it was one of the roomiest I've ever sat in in terms of not restricting one's movements with enclosures.