Mar 7, 2014, 1:36 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
The current thread for discussing the 767-323ER Thompson Vantage Business Seats is https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1542143-boeing-767-300-763-thompson-vantage-business-seat-map-best-seats.html.
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"CIP" Cabin Improvement Program Full Lie Flat Thompson Vantage Seat and All-Aisle Access. 16 of 24 with WiFi, Business with tablets for IFE.
See American Airlines Business Class Seat video in first post [/b][/center]
Due to thread and interest growth, please see 763 / 767 CIP New (2014) Business Seat and Map (master thread). BUSINESS SEAT and BUSINESS CABIN posts have moved to that thread.
NOTE: All currently flying 763s are refurbished.
100% of the active fleet have been converted (as of 30OCT17) (* = wifi available):
- N342AN*, N343AN*, N344AN*, N346AN*, N347AN*, N348AN*, N349AN*, N350AN*, N379AA, N381AN*, N384AA*, N385AM, N388AA, N389AA, N390AA, N391AA, N392AN, N393AN, N394AN, N395AN, N396AN, N397AN*, N398AN, and N399AN*.
The following 34 aircraft have been retired (as of 30OCT17):
- N345AN, N351AA, N352AA, N353AA, N354AA, N355AA, N357AA, N358AA, N39356, N359AA, N360AA, N361AA, N362AA, N363AA, N39364, N39365, N366AA, N39367, N368AA, N369AA, N370AA, N371AA, N372AA, N373AA, N374AA, N7375A, N376AN, N377AN, N378AN, N382AN, N383AN, N386AA, N387AM, N380AN (with N373AA being the final NGBC aircraft retired to Roswell on 30OCT17)
Program details:
- ~26 (46%) of AA's fleet of 57 763 / 767-323ERs have been retained and upgraded with a Cabin Improvement Program - 28 new horizontal lie-flat Thompson Vantage business seats, 14 MCE seats (row 11 gets removed as the business cabin is enlarged), and 163 coach / economy (including 14 exit row) seats. Other upgrades include international satellite Wi-Fi (refit started in 2016), 110V AC power outlets in the business cabin (MCE and coach will retain 15V DC cigarette-lighter style power), new overhead monitors and audio systems, and a refurbishment of lavatories and main cabin seats. No personal in-seat video system was installed - the premium cabin retain the Samsung Galaxy tablets (docked to seatbacks) on international flights, and the main cabin, as well as the premium cabin on domestic flights, will stay with shared overhead screens.
- These aircraft were refurbished for one reason: the AA/BA/IB/AY transatlantic joint business agreement requires that AA have lie-flat seats for transatlantic routes.
- Link to post with artist's rendition of new J cabin. Link to post with new seat maps as they appear in AA.com
- Link to airchive article including pictures, and Link to mycrewlife blog post with more renderings showing the business cabin.
- Link to FT Trip Report with images
- Link to AA's widebody CIP announcement. For 777 upgrades, see thread 777-200ER / 772 No First; New Business Announced 2014 (767 stuff moved).
J-cabin seat map:
Code:
A D G J 2 0_ 0_0_ _0 2 3 _0 _0_0 0_ 3 4 0_ 0_0_ _0 4 5 _0 _0_0 0_ 5 6 0_ 0_0_ _0 6 7 _0 _0_0 0_ 7 8 0_ 0_0_ _0 8 A D G J Legend: 0 = seat; _ = table
Note: the seats in C behind seats with smaller consoles (inside center) have smaller foot cubbies; those with large feet or shoes will feel cramped. Those over six feet will feel cramped if they lie supine in the fully flattened seat; sleeping slanted or side sleeping with bent legs is possible.
In Business they offer a 110 VAC multi-socket in the e-pad front tray area, and another, as well as USB and audio mini jack at shoulder height over and at the rear of the console. Seat controls are touch controls, and can involuntarily be operated by resting your forearm on the console.
The tray table is released with a button; it pivots out and folds. Table height may impede those who are portly or have long legs. Overhead bins, IFE monitors, lavs etc. have not been upgraded.
JDiver's mini-report here.
Contributors: sensei, SDQBound(former B7e7US), Longboater, Econometrics[/COLOR]
ARCHIVE: Boeing 767-300 / 763 "CIP" with Lie Flat Business (2014 CIP)
Mar 7, 2014, 2:38 pm
#106
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It turns out that it was a multimillion dollar blunder in direct costs (the seats that AA is ripping out are mechanically sound), which also costed AA a lot of missed premium revenue over the last 8 years, probably in the order of tens if not hundreds of millions. They're not junking perfectly fine seats for fun; customers have been voting with their wallet (to DL's flights with horizontal, amongst others).
On a personal note, of the 4 carriers serving JFK-MXP, AA is the only one without horizontal seats.
Mar 7, 2014, 2:49 pm
#107
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Not strictly true, as LA has horizontal seats in a 6-across configuration on their 763s (see here), and IIRC the current Recaro seats AA has can be reprogrammed to go full horizontal (with additional pitch, of course).
Mar 7, 2014, 3:01 pm
#108
Moderator: American AAdvantage
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Seems like it's official now; the Delta/JAL seat:
http://www.airlinesanddestinations.c...vice-in-april/
http://www.airlinesanddestinations.c...vice-in-april/
I flew 77W j recently and was really surprised it was long enough to sleep. Does
Anyone know if the 763 seats will be cut down? Would be a shame to go from current seats which can accommodate tall passengers if less comfortably to smaller seats like BA J which mean you cannot lie down and sleep. Fingers crossed after success on 77W.
Anyone know if the 763 seats will be cut down? Would be a shame to go from current seats which can accommodate tall passengers if less comfortably to smaller seats like BA J which mean you cannot lie down and sleep. Fingers crossed after success on 77W.
Mar 7, 2014, 3:08 pm
#109
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: SFO
Posts: 1,746
Ugh. Looks like just like DL except for the color. Burned the rest of my SkyPesos and suffered in it for 9 hours from SCL-ATL a couple of months ago.
Maybe the singletons are better but the center pair are brutal. Indeed, after we landed in ATL, Mrs. SFO told me "don't ever book me on that piece of s*** again."
Maybe the singletons are better but the center pair are brutal. Indeed, after we landed in ATL, Mrs. SFO told me "don't ever book me on that piece of s*** again."
Mar 7, 2014, 3:14 pm
#110
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Actually I have to retract this; it appears the bed-length on this seat will be very close to the 78" of the 77W seat, but that the area that confines the lower-leg area will be more confining as more of the legs (like all of them) are in a more narrow area, needless to say. But overall bed-length is quite similar between the 2.
Mar 7, 2014, 3:26 pm
#111
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ORD
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Delta still has long-haul planes flying around with this:
AA introduced it's first lie flat product in 2006. It is now introducing it's second generation in 2014, while Delta is still trying to finish converting it's fleet to lie flat. There's no question as to who has been at the head of it's game here - it's AA.
I'm not arguing finished are worth a delay. There is in fact no "delay," AA simply rolled out a lie-flat product earlier, and it naturally aged first. Or is AA supposed to rip out it's seats every 3 years?
AA introduced it's first lie flat product in 2006. It is now introducing it's second generation in 2014, while Delta is still trying to finish converting it's fleet to lie flat. There's no question as to who has been at the head of it's game here - it's AA.
I'm not arguing finished are worth a delay. There is in fact no "delay," AA simply rolled out a lie-flat product earlier, and it naturally aged first. Or is AA supposed to rip out it's seats every 3 years?
Mar 7, 2014, 3:29 pm
#112
Moderator: American AAdvantage
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I suppose it depends on your definition of "long haul". AA still has the Eisenhower 757 J seat potentially on AA922 MIA-LPB. 6 hours 35 minutes in that seat will certainly feel long haul. Funnily enough I can't find a marketing picture of it to upload. They need to eradicate that crap.
No, not "long haul"; that's what we call "keel haul" - particularly on a redeye. 757IKE.
Mar 7, 2014, 3:35 pm
#114
Join Date: Jan 2008
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So these are all going to serve INTL destinations? 
I'm not a big fan of the A321T. I find it to be a bumpier ride than the 762/3s.
I'm not a big fan of the A321T. I find it to be a bumpier ride than the 762/3s.
Mar 7, 2014, 3:41 pm
#115
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: BOS
Programs: Free Agent! B6 Mosaic, AA 5MM LT Plat (EXP gone), SPG LT Plat, WN APlus, Hilton Diamond
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(Posting because of the delightful picture above of the 757IKE)
I refunded a coach award OGG/LAX/JFK/BOS and purchased Y with an eVIP upgrade because the plane for the redeye was a 763, and then it was changed to the 757IKE at the last minute. Needless to say, I was very disappointed (happy to be in F, unhappy to blow $1K + SWU on 757 F instead of 767MCE for miles).
Personally, I think the ripple effects of all the different models leads to some really annoyed passengers. Per the CoC, we are just owed a trip from point A to point B, and seats, equipment, etc. are not guaranteed. But, if AA spends all this effort marketing the cool benefits of plane X, and you buy a ticket on that basis, I think they owe you something when they replace a 772 with an RJ, or whatever <g>.
I've had JFK/LAX flights changed from 762 to 757, and from 321 to 762. All the ads tout the gee-whizziness of the 321, so why isn't part of the "implied contract" that you get what is advertised? Or at least get something when it gets downgraded?
I'd be happier with a smaller set of choices and more consistency, so I could make decisions that worked for me and dealt with an airline that met its commitments.
I refunded a coach award OGG/LAX/JFK/BOS and purchased Y with an eVIP upgrade because the plane for the redeye was a 763, and then it was changed to the 757IKE at the last minute. Needless to say, I was very disappointed (happy to be in F, unhappy to blow $1K + SWU on 757 F instead of 767MCE for miles).
Personally, I think the ripple effects of all the different models leads to some really annoyed passengers. Per the CoC, we are just owed a trip from point A to point B, and seats, equipment, etc. are not guaranteed. But, if AA spends all this effort marketing the cool benefits of plane X, and you buy a ticket on that basis, I think they owe you something when they replace a 772 with an RJ, or whatever <g>.
I've had JFK/LAX flights changed from 762 to 757, and from 321 to 762. All the ads tout the gee-whizziness of the 321, so why isn't part of the "implied contract" that you get what is advertised? Or at least get something when it gets downgraded?
I'd be happier with a smaller set of choices and more consistency, so I could make decisions that worked for me and dealt with an airline that met its commitments.
Mar 7, 2014, 3:56 pm
#116
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,092
Delta still has long-haul planes flying around with this:
AA introduced it's first lie flat product in 2006. It is now introducing it's second generation in 2014, while Delta is still trying to finish converting it's fleet to lie flat. There's no question as to who has been at the head of it's game here - it's AA.
I'm not arguing finished are worth a delay. There is in fact no "delay," AA simply rolled out a lie-flat product earlier, and it naturally aged first. Or is AA supposed to rip out it's seats every 3 years?
AA introduced it's first lie flat product in 2006. It is now introducing it's second generation in 2014, while Delta is still trying to finish converting it's fleet to lie flat. There's no question as to who has been at the head of it's game here - it's AA.
I'm not arguing finished are worth a delay. There is in fact no "delay," AA simply rolled out a lie-flat product earlier, and it naturally aged first. Or is AA supposed to rip out it's seats every 3 years?
Not saying that DL wasn't late to this -- they were. But AA missed the boat with the 2006 763 refits.
Mar 7, 2014, 3:59 pm
#117
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Delta no longer has planes flying around with those recliner seats. All Delta 767-300ERs have been converted to flat-bed seats. Only 4 A330s currently remain with angled-flat seats, and none of those will be in passenger service by early April.
Mar 7, 2014, 4:08 pm
#118
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Mar 7, 2014, 4:19 pm
#119
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Back atcha OT: I am guessing color rendition issues, as the "yellow" Ike seats are actually light brown leather, and the yellowish tinge cries out for Photoshop for color balance.
Amazing, just amazing, hard product range and contrast one can encounter on an international "Business" class (Ike on thin and high / hot S. America particularly) flight with AA, from Ike to CIP 763. Really nasty when a 757 subs for a 763 (CIP) on some route one of us will undoubtedly be stuck on.
Amazing, just amazing, hard product range and contrast one can encounter on an international "Business" class (Ike on thin and high / hot S. America particularly) flight with AA, from Ike to CIP 763. Really nasty when a 757 subs for a 763 (CIP) on some route one of us will undoubtedly be stuck on.
Mar 7, 2014, 4:34 pm
#120
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Heart of Europe
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Posts: 240
This looks absolutely great! Business class layout and seats are identical to those of Austrian Airlines, Swiss, and Brussels Airlines.
