rumor : new upgrade co-payment effective 01dec04
Oct 5, 2004, 10:23 am
#46
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: West Hollywood, CA, USA
Programs: AA, SPG GLD, DL FO, VX, UA, US, ICH, Hyatt, Avis Pref.
Posts: 478
So now that AA is no different from anyone else, I'm glad I cashed in all my miles for a trip to Austrailia. Now I'll start earning with skyteam.
AAs J class is just barely worth the miles. They really need to improve service, food, AAtitudes before you can charge people like that. What's next a fee for booking 31AB HJ on a 777.
This is actually going to hurt AA. People will have no incentive to fly AA international if it's expensive to upgrade. No point in earning miles on other flights to save up for that upgrade. Since they are most likely getting rid of MRTC, coach will be coach on all airlines. So there will be no loyalty anymore and they will lose those low-fare flyers they may consider to be the bottom of the barrell. This will definately affect the bottom line.
AAs J class is just barely worth the miles. They really need to improve service, food, AAtitudes before you can charge people like that. What's next a fee for booking 31AB HJ on a 777.
This is actually going to hurt AA. People will have no incentive to fly AA international if it's expensive to upgrade. No point in earning miles on other flights to save up for that upgrade. Since they are most likely getting rid of MRTC, coach will be coach on all airlines. So there will be no loyalty anymore and they will lose those low-fare flyers they may consider to be the bottom of the barrell. This will definately affect the bottom line.
Last edited by bstndance; Oct 5, 2004 at 10:30 am
Oct 5, 2004, 10:26 am
#47
Community Director Emerita
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Anywhere warm
Posts: 33,755
Originally Posted by JonNYC
Additionally, I don't know applicability to VIP upgrades.
Oct 5, 2004, 10:26 am
#48
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 63,638
Is it AA's goal to eliminate upgrades?
I've bought international RT tickets for less than $500, and now they want to charge me that much for the privilege of using another 50k miles to upgrade?
I've bought international RT tickets for less than $500, and now they want to charge me that much for the privilege of using another 50k miles to upgrade?
Oct 5, 2004, 10:28 am
#49
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: USA
Programs: AA-CK, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,449
Spoke to EXP Desk to get confirmation
The desk said yes. The USD 250 is one way required for all fares except Y&B did not ask about discounted J. All flights starting Dec.1 that have NOT been waitlisted by that time will be affected.
VIP upgrades are not affected.
I have already sent out three letters to AAdvantage, Daniel P. Garton and Gail Green. Maybe Arpey is next.
BTW I can't remember the last I used miles to upgrade for me it is is the principle of the thing. Gain market share by differentation not being a me too with an inferior product.
This one I hope they change and soon.
VIP upgrades are not affected.
I have already sent out three letters to AAdvantage, Daniel P. Garton and Gail Green. Maybe Arpey is next.
BTW I can't remember the last I used miles to upgrade for me it is is the principle of the thing. Gain market share by differentation not being a me too with an inferior product.
This one I hope they change and soon.
Oct 5, 2004, 10:36 am
#50
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 63,638
They should at least toss us a bone - reduce the # miles required for upgrade.
Oct 5, 2004, 10:37 am
#51
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EP 3MM, UA Silver, Bonvoy LT TIT, Hyatt Explorist, HH Silver, Caesars PLT
Posts: 7,259
So far, my employer has not questioned my exessive $50 and $75 "change fees" (aka expedite fees). I guess my expense reports are going to reflect a lot of new "change fees".
Oct 5, 2004, 10:45 am
#52
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
Originally Posted by SanDiego1K
Jon, please let us know as soon as you hear whether or not this applies to VIP upgrades.
Thing about this change is, since it applies to all non-full(ish) fares, some tickets could easily be $1000(or more) + 50,000 miles (more to Asia) + $500 r/t. More extreme examples as well, I'm sure.
Personally, I don't think the whole thing was thought out very well-- even if it was inevitable. At the very least, it should have been a different amount for "deep discount (.5 point)" vs. "discount (1 point)" fares, IMHO.
Or, I think I would have even preferred them just making "deep discount" fares non-upgradable w/ miles-- since "deep discount" + $500 r/t, you'd be better off buying a "discount" fare instead anyway in most cases-- again, MHO.
Oct 5, 2004, 10:56 am
#53
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, TX -- AA Life Platinum; QF Life Silver; UA Silver
Posts: 5,462
AA must be taking their cues from crack dealers.
Get em hooked cheap then when they're jonesing raise the price.
Get em hooked cheap then when they're jonesing raise the price.
Oct 5, 2004, 11:02 am
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: RDU
Programs: AA LT Gold, DL SM, HY Disc, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 12,507
This is just stupid. It makes my chances of hitting Platinum on American in 2005 exactly zero, as I'm not going to pay $1000 on top of the fare to upgrade internationally. I guess if I stay Platinum I'll just do it on 60 segments, and use miles to fly full F to LHR. Or is an upcharge on that next?
Now I'm really mad that I blew my status comp with UA at the beginning of 2003.
And I just might do the 2/4 deal on United to get that status back instead of spending the money to stay Platinum on AA this year. I'm lifetime Gold on American, which means that I can book the exit row in advance for leisure travel.
Now I'm really mad that I blew my status comp with UA at the beginning of 2003.
And I just might do the 2/4 deal on United to get that status back instead of spending the money to stay Platinum on AA this year. I'm lifetime Gold on American, which means that I can book the exit row in advance for leisure travel.
Oct 5, 2004, 11:04 am
#55
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: PIT
Posts: 10,985
Originally Posted by hauteboy
AA must be taking their cues from crack dealers.
Get em hooked cheap then when they're jonesing raise the price.
Get em hooked cheap then when they're jonesing raise the price.
ROTFLMAO-----
Oct 5, 2004, 11:10 am
#56
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
My guess is that AA will announce a cabin refurbishment progam (with new J seats) at the same time or very shortly afterward and tell us that the only way to pay for it is with a new upgrade co-payment.
I certainly hope I get my choice of meals if I pay $500 more to upgrade.
I certainly hope I get my choice of meals if I pay $500 more to upgrade.
Oct 5, 2004, 11:10 am
#57
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,436
Example
JFK-LHR r/t
1) Milesaaver award: 90,000 miles.
2) Buy cheap ticket & upgrade by Dec 1: $350 + 50,000 miles. Get 6904 miles (plus bonuses) and 3452 q-points. In effect, about 54,000 miles (40,000 + 6,904 + 6,904 EXP/PLT bonus) for $350.
3) Buy cheap ticket & upgrade after Dec 1: $350 + 50,000 miles + $500. Get 6904 miles (plus bonuses) and 3452 q-points. In effect, about 54,000 miles (40,000 + 6,904 + 6,904 EXP/PLT bonus) for $850.
1) Milesaaver award: 90,000 miles.
2) Buy cheap ticket & upgrade by Dec 1: $350 + 50,000 miles. Get 6904 miles (plus bonuses) and 3452 q-points. In effect, about 54,000 miles (40,000 + 6,904 + 6,904 EXP/PLT bonus) for $350.
3) Buy cheap ticket & upgrade after Dec 1: $350 + 50,000 miles + $500. Get 6904 miles (plus bonuses) and 3452 q-points. In effect, about 54,000 miles (40,000 + 6,904 + 6,904 EXP/PLT bonus) for $850.
Last edited by richarddd; Oct 5, 2004 at 11:17 am
Oct 5, 2004, 11:25 am
#58
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: PIT
Posts: 10,985
Originally Posted by richarddd
JFK-LHR r/t
1) Milesaaver award: 90,000 miles.
2) Buy cheap ticket & upgrade by Dec 1: $350 + 50,000 miles. Get 6904 miles (plus bonuses) and 3452 q-points. In effect, about 54,000 miles (40,000 + 6,904 + 6,904 EXP/PLT bonus) for $350.
3) Buy cheap ticket & upgrade after Dec 1: $350 + 50,000 miles + $500. Get 6904 miles (plus bonuses) and 3452 q-points. In effect, about 54,000 miles (40,000 + 6,904 + 6,904 EXP/PLT bonus) for $850.
1) Milesaaver award: 90,000 miles.
2) Buy cheap ticket & upgrade by Dec 1: $350 + 50,000 miles. Get 6904 miles (plus bonuses) and 3452 q-points. In effect, about 54,000 miles (40,000 + 6,904 + 6,904 EXP/PLT bonus) for $350.
3) Buy cheap ticket & upgrade after Dec 1: $350 + 50,000 miles + $500. Get 6904 miles (plus bonuses) and 3452 q-points. In effect, about 54,000 miles (40,000 + 6,904 + 6,904 EXP/PLT bonus) for $850.
$350 / 54000 = 0.65 cents/mile
$850 / 54000 = 1.57 cents/mile
Given that they sell miles for around 2 cents each to Hertz, et al for their programs--looks like you are still getting the miles cheaper than AA sells them to other companies.
I am not sure awarding miles such that they are valued at less than a penny a piece was a very good business model long term...
Oct 5, 2004, 11:25 am
#59
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: AA PLT; UA Gold
Posts: 5,378
In case anyone at AA reads this forum, I must chime in here and agree with the other posters that this move is very discouraging. I only use my miles for upgrades--I have never exchanged them for a free ticket. This move tremendously decreases the value of AAdvantage miles to me.
I'd be happy to pay up to $100 each way for an international upgrade, but the amounts that are being tossed around here are crazy.
Why didn't they just increase the number of miles needed for international upgrades by an amount they consider to be the cash-equivalent of the new fees?
I'd be happy to pay up to $100 each way for an international upgrade, but the amounts that are being tossed around here are crazy.
Why didn't they just increase the number of miles needed for international upgrades by an amount they consider to be the cash-equivalent of the new fees?
Oct 5, 2004, 11:28 am
#60
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: DCA, EGE, IAD
Programs: MR LTT, BA Gold, AA LTP, UA Silver
Posts: 6,078
OK, now comparisons are really a mess:
CO - East Coast Gateway to FRA, about $550 plus 40000 miles plus $900 upgrade fee. Value $3800-1450=1350 for 40000 miles = 3.375 cents/mile
UA - East Coast Gateway to FRA, about $788 (H or M fare) plus 60000 miles. Value $3800-788=3012 for 60000 miles = 5.02 cents/mile
AA - East Coast Gateway to FRA, about $550 plus 50000 miles plus $500 upgrade fee. Value $3800-1050=2750 for 50000 miles = 5.5 cents/mile
In my case I live near IAD and UA provides direct service. Despite that, I have chosen AA as my carrier of choice up until now. This change will definitely make me rethink that decision. Actually as much as I hate to admit it even with the change AA still comes out on top according to the comparative analysis outlined above. I will still have to weigh the changes once I see all the details. Which airline would you choose?
A question, will this charge only apply to international upgrades using miles, or all upgrades using miles? If it also applies to Domestic/Caribbean upgrades then this is really bad. I guess I will have to wait until tomorrow to find out. Oh, and tomorrow is my birthday. Thanks for the present AA!
The good side to this, if there is any, is that there should be more seats available for upgrade as some will refuse to pay the surcharge as noted in previous posts.
CO - East Coast Gateway to FRA, about $550 plus 40000 miles plus $900 upgrade fee. Value $3800-1450=1350 for 40000 miles = 3.375 cents/mile
UA - East Coast Gateway to FRA, about $788 (H or M fare) plus 60000 miles. Value $3800-788=3012 for 60000 miles = 5.02 cents/mile
AA - East Coast Gateway to FRA, about $550 plus 50000 miles plus $500 upgrade fee. Value $3800-1050=2750 for 50000 miles = 5.5 cents/mile
In my case I live near IAD and UA provides direct service. Despite that, I have chosen AA as my carrier of choice up until now. This change will definitely make me rethink that decision. Actually as much as I hate to admit it even with the change AA still comes out on top according to the comparative analysis outlined above. I will still have to weigh the changes once I see all the details. Which airline would you choose?
A question, will this charge only apply to international upgrades using miles, or all upgrades using miles? If it also applies to Domestic/Caribbean upgrades then this is really bad. I guess I will have to wait until tomorrow to find out. Oh, and tomorrow is my birthday. Thanks for the present AA!
The good side to this, if there is any, is that there should be more seats available for upgrade as some will refuse to pay the surcharge as noted in previous posts.
Last edited by aaupgrade; Oct 5, 2004 at 11:40 am