Exhausted FA's build 'fort'
Oct 3, 2011, 5:48 pm
#76
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Safety standards WERE compromised by the presence of items of mass unattended during flight. Sleeping on the floor next to them does not qualify as "attended". Emergency equipment access also impeded. In turbulence encounter, those carts would have posed a potential very big threat to pax and crew. FAA guidance indicates carts not secured in galley or on floor restraint (if installed) must be attended within three rows or 10 feet by crewmember. Asleep on the floor does not cut it for "attended" with the cart.
Oct 3, 2011, 5:52 pm
#77
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There was just a report of clear air turbulence resulting in 11 injuries on a Lufthansa flight and several minor injuries on a JetBlue flight:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/newss...lh-flight.html
Imagine the injuries that would have occurred had one of these unsecured carts gone flying through the cabin during clear air (or any) turbulence.
Oct 3, 2011, 6:08 pm
#78
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Carts are going to fly no matter if they are manned or unmanned {as opposed to secure}. When holding onto the cart during turbulence, the cart acts as a whip, and guess who gets the "crack" at the end!
Oct 3, 2011, 6:21 pm
#79
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OP reports no service underway and no flight deck lav procedure underway.
"Attended" cart better chance of getting to a secure location and/or having belted pax assist in at least attempt to hold cart and assist aisle FA. Unattended cart will go wherever the force drives it.
Last edited by Clipper110A; Oct 3, 2011 at 6:24 pm Reason: amplify comment
Oct 3, 2011, 6:42 pm
#80
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Carts are NOT going to fly if when they are not being used, they are in the cart tunnels with primary and secondary restraints like bayonets. These things have been engineered for impact force stress loads.
OP reports no service underway and no flight deck lav procedure underway.
"Attended" cart better chance of getting to a secure location and/or having belted pax assist in at least attempt to hold cart and assist aisle FA. Unattended cart will go wherever the force drives it.
OP reports no service underway and no flight deck lav procedure underway.
"Attended" cart better chance of getting to a secure location and/or having belted pax assist in at least attempt to hold cart and assist aisle FA. Unattended cart will go wherever the force drives it.
Oct 3, 2011, 7:40 pm
#81
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If you re-read my post, you will see that I mentioned manned vs unmanned. Just because an FA is standing with the cart, does not mean that it is any safer than being left unattended. I speak this from direct experience with a cart that I was holding on to during clear air turbulence. One cannot secure a cart into the housing when one is airborne in the aisle!
"Unattended" no one there to deal with it at all.
OP reports a situation with crew sleeping on floor with carts used as some kind of wall. Patently unsafe situation.
Oct 3, 2011, 9:38 pm
#82
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If it wasn't technically their "rest" time those seats may have been occupied by others. Also, I've heard of pax who'd rather an entire center row in 777 Y over a seat in J since they can get fully horizontal.
Oct 3, 2011, 9:45 pm
#83
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If you re-read my post, you will see that I mentioned manned vs unmanned. Just because an FA is standing with the cart, does not mean that it is any safer than being left unattended. I speak this from direct experience with a cart that I was holding on to during clear air turbulence. One cannot secure a cart into the housing when one is airborne in the aisle!
Oct 3, 2011, 10:06 pm
#84
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Let me make sure I'm understanding this properly. Using your logic, FAs do not enhance the safety so why not reduce staffing? Like it or not, it's clear changes are coming to AA and we may ultimately see a drastic reduction in on board staffing on international long-haul routes. AMR and the courts would legally be able to impose eight FAs on the 777 will suffice, six on 763, four on 75L.
Oct 4, 2011, 12:30 pm
#85
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So how recent was this flight ?
since I have a connection at AA that tells me a crew recently got fired for doing exactly what the OP described.
My money says the crew fired was on his flight
My money says the crew fired was on his flight
Oct 4, 2011, 12:37 pm
#86
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My only problem was that they were all asleep.
Had they taken the naps in shifts - with one individual manning the "fort" - then no problem.
I think the turbulence argument is a red herring since they only need 10 seconds warning to take the carts and stow them away.
Had they taken the naps in shifts - with one individual manning the "fort" - then no problem.
I think the turbulence argument is a red herring since they only need 10 seconds warning to take the carts and stow them away.
Oct 4, 2011, 12:59 pm
#87
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If this is true I think it was an overreaction, and if management made that decision after seeing this thread, I want to express my regret that I didn't immediately try to put the event in perspective as a non-issue.
Oct 4, 2011, 1:09 pm
#88
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If indeed true, I doubt that this thread had anything to do with it since the thread only started on Saturday. Perhaps other pax took pics and reported it to AA.
Oct 4, 2011, 1:11 pm
#89
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It's not a question of whether the FA can control it during sudden turbulence rather whether it even needed to be out in the first place knowing that clear air turbulence is always a risk.
Oct 4, 2011, 1:57 pm
#90
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The issue with the cart, as I see it, is that a cart is more likely to go flying when in the aisle vs. when it is secured, so it's always irresponsible to leave the cart unsecured when it doesn't have to be out for service purposes (or to temporarily provide a first line of defense when the pilot has to use the facilities).
It's not a question of whether the FA can control it during sudden turbulence rather whether it even needed to be out in the first place knowing that clear air turbulence is always a risk.
It's not a question of whether the FA can control it during sudden turbulence rather whether it even needed to be out in the first place knowing that clear air turbulence is always a risk.
The extreme CAT we are talking about makes it impossible to walk...in 10 seconds your head and the cart may have hit the ceiling more than once...while it does not happen often, it has happened, and there have been fatalities...