Jul 30, 2014, 2:10 am
Last edit by: eponymous_coward
To try to make sense of what's all happening between AS and DL, the idea arose during the recent Alaska do to create a compendium in the wiki of the various stages of the current spat. Please add your knowledge where you can!
Timeline of events:
**proposed format for new route announcements**
mm/dd/yy [date of announcement] Airline XXX-YYY [new vs changed] [frequency] dd/mm/yy [date of service/change] Airline Press Release link | FT thread/post link
Timeline of events:
**proposed format for new route announcements**
mm/dd/yy [date of announcement] Airline XXX-YYY [new vs changed] [frequency] dd/mm/yy [date of service/change] Airline Press Release link | FT thread/post link
- 2008: Delta and Northwest merge, Delta's staff takes over relationship with Alaska
- 06/05/09 Alaska ATL - SEA New 1x daily 23/10/09 AS Announcement | FT Thread
- 2011: Alaska allegedly (using data gleaned from codeshare sales) tries to lower the ratio of the fare it pays Delta on codeshare itineraries
- 08/10/12: The infamous "joint" Seattle press conference where Delta CEO Richard Anderson announces they will ramp up international service in Seattle (AS CEO Brad Tilden stays quiet in the background) -- DL Announcement | FT Thread
- 01/11/12 Alaska SLC - SEA New 2x daily 04/04/13 AS Announcement | FT Thread
- 25/02/13 Delta announces resumption of SEA-ANC, new SEA-LAS. Hard to find press release/news, but this site mentions it.
- 02/05/13 Alaska ATL - PDX New 1x daily 26/08/13 AS Announcement
- 01/10/13 Delta SEA - LAS Increase from 1x - 3x daily 06/01/14 -> 5x daily 01/04/14 DL Announcement | Post #1
- 01/10/13 Delta SEA - SFO New 6x daily 29/03/14 -> 7x daily 05/06/14 DL Announcement | Post #1
- 01/10/13 Delta SEA - LAX Increase from 5x - 7x daily 05/06/14 DL Announcement |Post #1
- 05/11/13 Delta SEA - SAN New 4x daily 02/06/14 DL Announcement | Post #77
- 05/11/13 Delta SEA - ANC Increase 1x to 2x daily summer seasonal 05/06/14 DL Announcement | Post #90
- 05/11/13 Delta SEA - PDX New 4x daily 02/09/14 DL Announcement | Post #77
- 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - PDX 09/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
- 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - SAN 10/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
- 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - LAX 11/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
- 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - SJC 12/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
- 17/12/13 Delta SEA - ANC 29/05/14 (increased from 2x-3x daily) Thread [link needed] DL Announcement
- 17/12/13 Delta SEA - JNU 29/05/14 Thread [link needed] DL Announcement | Post #268
- 17/12/13 Delta SEA - SJC 29/05/14 Thread [link needed] DL Announcement
- 20/12/13 Alaska SLC - BOI 16/06/14 New 1x Daily AS Announcement
- 20/12/13 Alaska SLC - LAS 16/06/14 New 2x Daily AS Announcement
- 20/12/13 Alaska SLC - SFO 18/06/14 New 1x Daily AS Announcement
- 10/02/14 Delta PHX - SEA 20/12/14 New 5x Daily CRJ-900 DL Announcement
- 10/02/14 Delta PSP - SEA 20/12/14 New 1x Daily CRJ-900 Winter Season DL Announcement
- 10/02/14 Delta TUS - SEA 20/12/14 New Saturday CRJ-900 Winter Season DL Announcement
- 10/02/14 Delta HNL - SEA 20/12/14 Increase 1x to 2x Daily 757-200/757-300 DL Announcement
- 11/02/14 Alaska DTW - SEA 04/09/14 New 1x Daily AS Announcement
- 11/02/14 Alaska MSY - SEA 12/06/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
- 11/02/14 Alaska SEA - TPA 20/06/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
- 26/02/14 Delta Delta changes SkyMiles to revenue based points/miles DL Announcement
- 28/03/14 Alaska BWI - SEA 02/09/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
- 28/03/14 Alaska ABQ - SEA 18/09/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
- 28/03/14 Alaska ATL - PDX 01/09/14 Discontinued 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
- 17/03/14 Delta BOI - LAX 05/16/14 New 1x Daily E-175 DL Announcement
- 09/05/14 Alaska CUN - SEA 06/11/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 Seasonal AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Delta GEG - SEA 03/11/14 New 4x Daily CRJ-700 DL Announcement
- 27/05/14 Delta SEA - YYC 03/11/14 New 2x Daily E-175 DL Announcement
- 27/05/14 Delta OGG - SEA 20/12/14 New 1x Daily 757-200 DL Announcement
- 27/05/14 Delta BZN - SEA 20/12/14 New Saturday E-175 Winter Season (Flight will op 1x Daily from 20/12/14-04/01/15) DL Announcement
- 27/05/14 Delta SEA - SJD 20/12/14 New Saturday A319 Winter Season DL Announcement
- 27/05/14 Delta PVR - SEA 20/12/14 New Saturday A319 Winter Season DL Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska Announces 11% increase in SEA flying for Spring 2015 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska BOI - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 8x to 9x Daily Q400 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska BOS - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 2x to 3x Daily 737-800/737-900 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska ORD - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 3x to 4x Daily 737-800/737-900 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska DEN - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 4x to 5x Daily 737 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska FAI - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 3x to 4x Daily 737 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska PSP - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 3x to 4x Daily 737 Seasonal AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska SEA - SMF 08/03/15 increase from 5x to 6x Daily 737 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska LAX - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 12x to 13x Daily 737 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska PDX - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 24x to 27x Daily Q400 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska GEG - SEA 08/03/15 replace 2x Daily Q400 with 737 AS Announcement
- 27/05/14 Alaska SEA - SNA 08/03/15 increase from 7x to 8x Daily 737-700/737-800 AS Announcement
- 08/07/14 Alaska PDX - SJD 03/11/14 New 4x Weekly 737-800/737-900 Seasonal AS Announcement
- 08/07/14 Alaska PDX - PVR 04/11/14 New 3x Weekly 737-800/737-900 Seasonal AS Announcement
- 13/11/14 Alaska IAD - SEA 11/03/15 New 1x Daily 737-800/737-900 AS Announcement
- 14/11/14 Delta seeks 30 (!) gates at SEA Bloomberg story
- 19/11/14 Delta adds SEA-DEN/BOI/SMF/KTN/SIT Summer '15 DL Press Release | FT Thread
- 11/25/14 Alaska Adds SEA-MKE NEW daily E-175 starting July 1, 2015 AS Press Release
- 11/25/14 Alaska Adds SEA-OKC NEW daily E-175 starting July 1, 2015 AS Press Release
- 22/02/15 Delta Announces 717 service to operate on SEA-LAX/LAS/PHX flights DL Press Release and then pulls LAS/PHX service back to regional jets. LAX service remains on 737 equipment (Delta.com)
- 22/02/15 Delta Extends SEA-JNU to year round service using CRJ-900 outside of summer DL Press Release
- 22/02/15 Delta Extends SEA-FAI to year round service using E-175 outside of summer DL Press Release
- 22/02/15 Delta Extends SEA-PVR/SJD seasonal Saturday service to October 3, 2015 DL Press Release and then pulls it back to start December 19, 2015 (Delta.com)
- 22/02/15 Delta Adds 2nd SEA-PSP seasonal flight CRJ-700 starting December 19, 2015DL Press Release
- 22/02/15 Delta Increases seasonal SEA-TUS Saturday flight to Daily using CRJ-700 starting December 19, 2015DL Press Release
- 22/02/15 Delta Adds SEA-KOA NEW daily 757-200 starting December 19, 2015DL Press Release
- 10/03/15 Alaska Adds SEA-JFK NEW daily 737-800 starting September 16, 2015 AS Press Release
- 28/04/15 Alaska Adds SEA-BNA NEW daily 737-800 starting September 23, 2015 AS Press Release
- 28/04/15 Alaska Adds SEA-RDU NEW daily 737-800 starting October 1, 2015 AS Press Release
- 28/04/15 Alaska Adds SEA-CHS NEW 4x/weekly 737-800 starting November 16, 2015 AS Press Release
- 14/05/15 Alaska Announces Preferred Plus Seating options AS Press Release
- 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-BZN Daily year round CRJ-700 on Aug 1, 2015 DL Press Release
- 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-PSC NEW 3x/day CRJ-700 on Nov 1, 2015 DL Press Release
- 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-MCO NEW 1x/day 757-200 on Dec 19, 2015 DL Press Release
- 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-BOS NEW 1x/day 737-800 on April 4, 2016 DL Press Release
- 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-YYJ NEW 3x/day CRJ-700 on April 4, 2016 DL Press Release
- 26/05/15 Delta Announces end to SEA-HND (Tokyo Haneda) service effective September 30. Route authority to be transferred to American to operate Los Angeles - Haneda. Seattle Times
- 07/22/15 Alaska announces partnership with Hainan Airlines which will reduce dependence on Delta for traffic to/from Asia AS Announcement | FT Thread
- 08/05/15 Alaska announces Boardroom members can access American Admirals Club starting 15 Aug and on 17 Oct that Former US Airways flights will be eligible for earn and burn miles FT Thread
- 09/22/15 Alaska announces partnership with Icelandair Icelandair Announcement
- 10/22/15 Alaska Opens New North Satellite Boardroom. AS Press Release
- 10/22/15 Alaska Alaska announces codeshare agreement with Emirates. AS Press Release
- 12/18/15 Delta Adds SEA-MSO, SEA-BIL and SEA-YEG NEW with CRJ-900/700 equipment operated by Skywest Routesonline (MSO) Routesonline (BIL) Routesonline (YEG)
- 01/01/16 Alaska and Delta: no more reciprocal Board Room/Sky Club Benefits
- 04/04/16 Alaska Alaska Air Group announces acquisition of Virgin America (Pending Government Approval). AS Press Release
- 05/10/16 Alaska Announces Japan Airlines as new Mileage Plan Member and codeshare partner. AS Press Release
- 05/11/16 DL adds Shuttle Service to Seattle (SFO and LAX)
- 06/21/16 Delta Will switch SEA-LHR from Delta to Virgin Atlantic using 787-9 starting March 26, 2017. Delta's 767-300ER will be reallocated seasonally to a 4x/week service on PDX-LHR from May 26, 2107-Oct 29, 2017. DL Press Release
- 06/21/16 Delta Add SEA-SUN Daily Dec 21, 2016-Jan 2, 2017 and Saturday's only from Jan 7-Mar 25, 2017 with CRJ-700. Routesonline | Delta.com
- 06/29/16 Alaska Adds SEA-SBP (San Luis Obispo) Daily year round E175 operated by SkyWest on April 17, 2017. AS Press Release
- 07/13/16 Alaska Adding seasonal flights to SEA-SUN. Double Daily Q400 Dec 16-Jan 2 and an added Sat/Sun from Feb 18-Mar 26, 2017. AS Press Release
- 07/21/16 Alaska Increasing SEA-EWR to 3 Daily flights with 737 starting May 14, 2017. AS Press Release
- 07/21/16 Alaska Adds SEA-ICT (Wichita) NEW daily E175 operated by SkyWest starting April 13, 2017. AS Press Release
- 07/21/16 Alaska Adds SEA-IND (Indianapolis) NEW daily 737 starting May 14, 2017. AS Press Release
- 08/14/16 Delta Adds 2nd SEA-BOS Daily 737-800 starting June 8, 2017. DL Press Release | Routesonline
- 08/14/16 Delta Adds SEA-EUG NEW 3x daily CRJ-700 starting April 1, 2017. Routesonline
- 08/14/16 Delta Adds SEA-RDU NEW daily 737-800 starting June 8, 2017. Routesonline
- 08/31/16 Delta discontinues SEA-BIL nonstop flights. Delta.com
- 08/31/16 Delta discontinues SEA-JNU from year round to seasonal until May 19, 2017. Delta.com
- 09/05/16 Delta discontinues SEA-MSO and SEA-BZN nonstop flights. Delta.com
- 10/21/2016 Delta opens a beautiful, spacious, new lounge at SeaTac, further showing how uninspiring the Board Rooms are.
- 3/2/2020 Delta (re)adds SEA-LHR, adds SEA-CMH, SEA-DFW, more frequencies on existing routes. Delta.com
- Further chronology? Please add! Loss of benefits, etc.
DL Encroaches Further on AS' Turf - Master Thread
Dec 27, 2015, 3:53 pm
#2536
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: PDX
Programs: AS MVP Gold 100K
Posts: 2,993
Dec 27, 2015, 5:56 pm
#2538
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northern Calif./Eastern Ida.
Programs: Amethyst Premier Plutonium Medallion
Posts: 20,644
Dec 27, 2015, 6:03 pm
#2539
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K
Posts: 21,373
well, DL operates their own flights on most of those routes now ... even if the code-share still exists, the DL marketing folks see no need to advertise it
Dec 28, 2015, 9:25 am
#2540
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Canada
Programs: AS, DL, UA, Hyatt, SPG
Posts: 2,574
Dec 28, 2015, 11:36 am
#2541
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: PDX
Programs: AS MVP Gold 100K
Posts: 2,993
I wouldn't read too much into this one. It's probably a poke in the eye to AS for starting PDX-MSP. And, DL now has data for how much traffic it carries on its own metal via SEA on this route. I think that's why it is less than daily...probably optimized for peak days that DL typically carries people PDX-SEA-ANC on their own metal. The fact that oil is cheap and it's a plane that would otherwise RON in Portland helps too.
Dec 28, 2015, 12:19 pm
#2542
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,394
Ahem...see reply 2533
I wouldn't read too much into this one. It's probably a poke in the eye to AS for starting PDX-MSP. And, DL now has data for how much traffic it carries on its own metal via SEA on this route. I think that's why it is less than daily...probably optimized for peak days that DL typically carries people PDX-SEA-ANC on their own metal. The fact that oil is cheap and it's a plane that would otherwise RON in Portland helps too.
I wouldn't read too much into this one. It's probably a poke in the eye to AS for starting PDX-MSP. And, DL now has data for how much traffic it carries on its own metal via SEA on this route. I think that's why it is less than daily...probably optimized for peak days that DL typically carries people PDX-SEA-ANC on their own metal. The fact that oil is cheap and it's a plane that would otherwise RON in Portland helps too.
Perfect to see if a little bit of $ can be generated on a plane that DL would have had to pay for to RON.
ANC is about the only place DL could feasibly send the plane as the timings for a EC flight would be horrific. 330AM Arrival in ATL with an 8PM departure, and then it would be an equally horrific 445AM departure to get the plane back to PDX for the morning schedule.
I'm sure the little poke at AS/B6 doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't classify it as more than that. If DL REALLY wanted to go after PDX/ANC they'd have at least x2 daily summer seasonal instead of the 4x weekly.
Dec 28, 2015, 3:44 pm
#2543
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,991
Agree with you on this, if you look at the times, it's an 8PM departure from PDX landing at 1049 and then a 1215AM departure from ANC landing at 449A in PDX.
Perfect to see if a little bit of $ can be generated on a plane that DL would have had to pay for to RON.
ANC is about the only place DL could feasibly send the plane as the timings for a EC flight would be horrific. 330AM Arrival in ATL with an 8PM departure, and then it would be an equally horrific 445AM departure to get the plane back to PDX for the morning schedule.
I'm sure the little poke at AS/B6 doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't classify it as more than that. If DL REALLY wanted to go after PDX/ANC they'd have at least x2 daily summer seasonal instead of the 4x weekly.
Perfect to see if a little bit of $ can be generated on a plane that DL would have had to pay for to RON.
ANC is about the only place DL could feasibly send the plane as the timings for a EC flight would be horrific. 330AM Arrival in ATL with an 8PM departure, and then it would be an equally horrific 445AM departure to get the plane back to PDX for the morning schedule.
I'm sure the little poke at AS/B6 doesn't hurt, but I wouldn't classify it as more than that. If DL REALLY wanted to go after PDX/ANC they'd have at least x2 daily summer seasonal instead of the 4x weekly.
Dec 28, 2015, 3:50 pm
#2544
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,394
The times work just fine for ANC as you said have all kinds of crazy departure hours.
The times would NOT work for anywhere else as the flight would land in ATL or another EC city around 330 AM. And then they would have to do a quick turn and schedule a flight back to PDX with a close to 445 am departure.
Dec 28, 2015, 4:18 pm
#2545
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,991
My point was that ANC was the only reasonable destination for a plane that might otherwise RON in PDX for DL. I think its mostly a utilization of the plane and saving DL the fees it has to pay the airport for leaving the plane overnight.
The times work just fine for ANC as you said have all kinds of crazy departure hours.
The times would NOT work for anywhere else as the flight would land in ATL or another EC city around 330 AM. And then they would have to do a quick turn and schedule a flight back to PDX with a close to 445 am departure.
The times work just fine for ANC as you said have all kinds of crazy departure hours.
The times would NOT work for anywhere else as the flight would land in ATL or another EC city around 330 AM. And then they would have to do a quick turn and schedule a flight back to PDX with a close to 445 am departure.
Dec 28, 2015, 4:53 pm
#2546
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: PDX
Programs: AS MVP Gold 100K
Posts: 2,993
My point was that ANC was the only reasonable destination for a plane that might otherwise RON in PDX for DL. I think its mostly a utilization of the plane and saving DL the fees it has to pay the airport for leaving the plane overnight.
The times work just fine for ANC as you said have all kinds of crazy departure hours.
The times would NOT work for anywhere else as the flight would land in ATL or another EC city around 330 AM. And then they would have to do a quick turn and schedule a flight back to PDX with a close to 445 am departure.
The times work just fine for ANC as you said have all kinds of crazy departure hours.
The times would NOT work for anywhere else as the flight would land in ATL or another EC city around 330 AM. And then they would have to do a quick turn and schedule a flight back to PDX with a close to 445 am departure.
Not saying it's ideal...but it's not unheard of.
Dec 28, 2015, 4:56 pm
#2547
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: PDX
Programs: AS MVP Gold 100K
Posts: 2,993
B6 had no problem filling up their PDX-ANC flight last year. It's nowhere big of an O&D market as SEA-ANC, but it's still one of the strongest Lower 48 markets out of ANC. I think Delta will be fine...as I said prior, I think DL is simply banking on moving the passengers that historically fly DL PDX-SEA-ANC and simply removing the SEA connection on peak summer travel days. Dirt cheap oil makes it even more possible.
Dec 28, 2015, 7:21 pm
#2548
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,394
This past summer AS ran a red eye SEA-IAH-SEA turn that had pretty darn close to the same times as what you mentioned. I think it was an 0330 arrival to IAH and 0430 departure back to SEA, or something crazy like that. This upcoming summer it's a more "civilized" schedule with a 0600-ish IAH arrival and departure back to SEA at 0700-ish.
Not saying it's ideal...but it's not unheard of.
Not saying it's ideal...but it's not unheard of.
Dec 29, 2015, 9:26 am
#2549
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,991
Anderson has to have someone to try to push around when he "jabs" at the Gulf States Carriers they slap back really hard !!!
Jan 1, 2016, 9:52 pm
#2550
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: PDX
Programs: AS MVP Gold 100K
Posts: 2,993
Looks like DL circled over JNU for a while tonight and is currently bound for ANC. JNU weather doesn't seem to be bad currently...light wind and visibility at least 10 miles.
Weird...maybe some kind of mechanical issue that they didn't want to have a plane in Juneau for?
Edit: Looks like flight 1549 filed for a 10:00 PM departure from ANC back to JNU. Weird.
Weird...maybe some kind of mechanical issue that they didn't want to have a plane in Juneau for?
Edit: Looks like flight 1549 filed for a 10:00 PM departure from ANC back to JNU. Weird.
Last edited by Chugach; Jan 1, 2016 at 9:57 pm