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DL Encroaches Further on AS' Turf - Master Thread

DL Encroaches Further on AS' Turf - Master Thread

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Old Oct 20, 16, 11:27 pm   -   Wikipost
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To try to make sense of what's all happening between AS and DL, the idea arose during the recent Alaska do to create a compendium in the wiki of the various stages of the current spat. Please add your knowledge where you can!

Timeline of events:

**proposed format for new route announcements**
mm/dd/yy [date of announcement] Airline XXX-YYY [new vs changed] [frequency] dd/mm/yy [date of service/change] Airline Press Release link | FT thread/post link
  1. 2008: Delta and Northwest merge, Delta's staff takes over relationship with Alaska
  2. 06/05/09 Alaska ATL - SEA New 1x daily 23/10/09 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  3. 2011: Alaska allegedly (using data gleaned from codeshare sales) tries to lower the ratio of the fare it pays Delta on codeshare itineraries
  4. 08/10/12: The infamous "joint" Seattle press conference where Delta CEO Richard Anderson announces they will ramp up international service in Seattle (AS CEO Brad Tilden stays quiet in the background) -- DL Announcement | FT Thread
  5. 01/11/12 Alaska SLC - SEA New 2x daily 04/04/13 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  6. 25/02/13 Delta announces resumption of SEA-ANC, new SEA-LAS. Hard to find press release/news, but this site mentions it.
  7. 02/05/13 Alaska ATL - PDX New 1x daily 26/08/13 AS Announcement
  8. 01/10/13 Delta SEA - LAS Increase from 1x - 3x daily 06/01/14 -> 5x daily 01/04/14 DL Announcement | Post #1
  9. 01/10/13 Delta SEA - SFO New 6x daily 29/03/14 -> 7x daily 05/06/14 DL Announcement | Post #1
  10. 01/10/13 Delta SEA - LAX Increase from 5x - 7x daily 05/06/14 DL Announcement |Post #1
  11. 05/11/13 Delta SEA - SAN New 4x daily 02/06/14 DL Announcement | Post #77
  12. 05/11/13 Delta SEA - ANC Increase 1x to 2x daily summer seasonal 05/06/14 DL Announcement | Post #90
  13. 05/11/13 Delta SEA - PDX New 4x daily 02/09/14 DL Announcement | Post #77
  14. 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - PDX 09/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  15. 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - SAN 10/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  16. 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - LAX 11/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  17. 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - SJC 12/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  18. 17/12/13 Delta SEA - ANC 29/05/14 (increased from 2x-3x daily) Thread [link needed] DL Announcement
  19. 17/12/13 Delta SEA - JNU 29/05/14 Thread [link needed] DL Announcement | Post #268
  20. 17/12/13 Delta SEA - SJC 29/05/14 Thread [link needed] DL Announcement
  21. 20/12/13 Alaska SLC - BOI 16/06/14 New 1x Daily AS Announcement
  22. 20/12/13 Alaska SLC - LAS 16/06/14 New 2x Daily AS Announcement
  23. 20/12/13 Alaska SLC - SFO 18/06/14 New 1x Daily AS Announcement
  24. 10/02/14 Delta PHX - SEA 20/12/14 New 5x Daily CRJ-900 DL Announcement
  25. 10/02/14 Delta PSP - SEA 20/12/14 New 1x Daily CRJ-900 Winter Season DL Announcement
  26. 10/02/14 Delta TUS - SEA 20/12/14 New Saturday CRJ-900 Winter Season DL Announcement
  27. 10/02/14 Delta HNL - SEA 20/12/14 Increase 1x to 2x Daily 757-200/757-300 DL Announcement
  28. 11/02/14 Alaska DTW - SEA 04/09/14 New 1x Daily AS Announcement
  29. 11/02/14 Alaska MSY - SEA 12/06/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
  30. 11/02/14 Alaska SEA - TPA 20/06/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
  31. 26/02/14 Delta Delta changes SkyMiles to revenue based points/miles DL Announcement
  32. 28/03/14 Alaska BWI - SEA 02/09/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
  33. 28/03/14 Alaska ABQ - SEA 18/09/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
  34. 28/03/14 Alaska ATL - PDX 01/09/14 Discontinued 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
  35. 17/03/14 Delta BOI - LAX 05/16/14 New 1x Daily E-175 DL Announcement
  36. 09/05/14 Alaska CUN - SEA 06/11/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 Seasonal AS Announcement
  37. 27/05/14 Delta GEG - SEA 03/11/14 New 4x Daily CRJ-700 DL Announcement
  38. 27/05/14 Delta SEA - YYC 03/11/14 New 2x Daily E-175 DL Announcement
  39. 27/05/14 Delta OGG - SEA 20/12/14 New 1x Daily 757-200 DL Announcement
  40. 27/05/14 Delta BZN - SEA 20/12/14 New Saturday E-175 Winter Season (Flight will op 1x Daily from 20/12/14-04/01/15) DL Announcement
  41. 27/05/14 Delta SEA - SJD 20/12/14 New Saturday A319 Winter Season DL Announcement
  42. 27/05/14 Delta PVR - SEA 20/12/14 New Saturday A319 Winter Season DL Announcement
  43. 27/05/14 Alaska Announces 11% increase in SEA flying for Spring 2015 AS Announcement
  44. 27/05/14 Alaska BOI - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 8x to 9x Daily Q400 AS Announcement
  45. 27/05/14 Alaska BOS - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 2x to 3x Daily 737-800/737-900 AS Announcement
  46. 27/05/14 Alaska ORD - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 3x to 4x Daily 737-800/737-900 AS Announcement
  47. 27/05/14 Alaska DEN - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 4x to 5x Daily 737 AS Announcement
  48. 27/05/14 Alaska FAI - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 3x to 4x Daily 737 AS Announcement
  49. 27/05/14 Alaska PSP - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 3x to 4x Daily 737 Seasonal AS Announcement
  50. 27/05/14 Alaska SEA - SMF 08/03/15 increase from 5x to 6x Daily 737 AS Announcement
  51. 27/05/14 Alaska LAX - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 12x to 13x Daily 737 AS Announcement
  52. 27/05/14 Alaska PDX - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 24x to 27x Daily Q400 AS Announcement
  53. 27/05/14 Alaska GEG - SEA 08/03/15 replace 2x Daily Q400 with 737 AS Announcement
  54. 27/05/14 Alaska SEA - SNA 08/03/15 increase from 7x to 8x Daily 737-700/737-800 AS Announcement
  55. 08/07/14 Alaska PDX - SJD 03/11/14 New 4x Weekly 737-800/737-900 Seasonal AS Announcement
  56. 08/07/14 Alaska PDX - PVR 04/11/14 New 3x Weekly 737-800/737-900 Seasonal AS Announcement
  57. 13/11/14 Alaska IAD - SEA 11/03/15 New 1x Daily 737-800/737-900 AS Announcement
  58. 14/11/14 Delta seeks 30 (!) gates at SEA Bloomberg story
  59. 19/11/14 Delta adds SEA-DEN/BOI/SMF/KTN/SIT Summer '15 DL Press Release | FT Thread
  60. 11/25/14 Alaska Adds SEA-MKE NEW daily E-175 starting July 1, 2015 AS Press Release
  61. 11/25/14 Alaska Adds SEA-OKC NEW daily E-175 starting July 1, 2015 AS Press Release
  62. 22/02/15 Delta Announces 717 service to operate on SEA-LAX/LAS/PHX flights DL Press Release and then pulls LAS/PHX service back to regional jets. LAX service remains on 737 equipment (Delta.com)
  63. 22/02/15 Delta Extends SEA-JNU to year round service using CRJ-900 outside of summer DL Press Release
  64. 22/02/15 Delta Extends SEA-FAI to year round service using E-175 outside of summer DL Press Release
  65. 22/02/15 Delta Extends SEA-PVR/SJD seasonal Saturday service to October 3, 2015 DL Press Release and then pulls it back to start December 19, 2015 (Delta.com)
  66. 22/02/15 Delta Adds 2nd SEA-PSP seasonal flight CRJ-700 starting December 19, 2015DL Press Release
  67. 22/02/15 Delta Increases seasonal SEA-TUS Saturday flight to Daily using CRJ-700 starting December 19, 2015DL Press Release
  68. 22/02/15 Delta Adds SEA-KOA NEW daily 757-200 starting December 19, 2015DL Press Release
  69. 10/03/15 Alaska Adds SEA-JFK NEW daily 737-800 starting September 16, 2015 AS Press Release
  70. 28/04/15 Alaska Adds SEA-BNA NEW daily 737-800 starting September 23, 2015 AS Press Release
  71. 28/04/15 Alaska Adds SEA-RDU NEW daily 737-800 starting October 1, 2015 AS Press Release
  72. 28/04/15 Alaska Adds SEA-CHS NEW 4x/weekly 737-800 starting November 16, 2015 AS Press Release
  73. 14/05/15 Alaska Announces Preferred Plus Seating options AS Press Release
  74. 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-BZN Daily year round CRJ-700 on Aug 1, 2015 DL Press Release
  75. 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-PSC NEW 3x/day CRJ-700 on Nov 1, 2015 DL Press Release
  76. 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-MCO NEW 1x/day 757-200 on Dec 19, 2015 DL Press Release
  77. 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-BOS NEW 1x/day 737-800 on April 4, 2016 DL Press Release
  78. 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-YYJ NEW 3x/day CRJ-700 on April 4, 2016 DL Press Release
  79. 26/05/15 Delta Announces end to SEA-HND (Tokyo Haneda) service effective September 30. Route authority to be transferred to American to operate Los Angeles - Haneda. Seattle Times
  80. 07/22/15 Alaska announces partnership with Hainan Airlines which will reduce dependence on Delta for traffic to/from Asia AS Announcement | FT Thread
  81. 08/05/15 Alaska announces Boardroom members can access American Admirals Club starting 15 Aug and on 17 Oct that Former US Airways flights will be eligible for earn and burn miles FT Thread
  82. 09/22/15 Alaska announces partnership with Icelandair Icelandair Announcement
  83. 10/22/15 Alaska Opens New North Satellite Boardroom. AS Press Release
  84. 10/22/15 Alaska Alaska announces codeshare agreement with Emirates. AS Press Release
  85. 12/18/15 Delta Adds SEA-MSO, SEA-BIL and SEA-YEG NEW with CRJ-900/700 equipment operated by Skywest Routesonline (MSO) Routesonline (BIL) Routesonline (YEG)
  86. 01/01/16 Alaska and Delta: no more reciprocal Board Room/Sky Club Benefits
  87. 04/04/16 Alaska Alaska Air Group announces acquisition of Virgin America (Pending Government Approval). AS Press Release
  88. 05/10/16 Alaska Announces Japan Airlines as new Mileage Plan Member and codeshare partner. AS Press Release
  89. 05/11/16 DL adds Shuttle Service to Seattle (SFO and LAX)
  90. 06/21/16 Delta Will switch SEA-LHR from Delta to Virgin Atlantic using 787-9 starting March 26, 2017. Delta's 767-300ER will be reallocated seasonally to a 4x/week service on PDX-LHR from May 26, 2107-Oct 29, 2017. DL Press Release
  91. 06/21/16 Delta Add SEA-SUN Daily Dec 21, 2016-Jan 2, 2017 and Saturday's only from Jan 7-Mar 25, 2017 with CRJ-700. Routesonline | Delta.com
  92. 06/29/16 Alaska Adds SEA-SBP (San Luis Obispo) Daily year round E175 operated by SkyWest on April 17, 2017. AS Press Release
  93. 07/13/16 Alaska Adding seasonal flights to SEA-SUN. Double Daily Q400 Dec 16-Jan 2 and an added Sat/Sun from Feb 18-Mar 26, 2017. AS Press Release
  94. 07/21/16 Alaska Increasing SEA-EWR to 3 Daily flights with 737 starting May 14, 2017. AS Press Release
  95. 07/21/16 Alaska Adds SEA-ICT (Wichita) NEW daily E175 operated by SkyWest starting April 13, 2017. AS Press Release
  96. 07/21/16 Alaska Adds SEA-IND (Indianapolis) NEW daily 737 starting May 14, 2017. AS Press Release
  97. 08/14/16 Delta Adds 2nd SEA-BOS Daily 737-800 starting June 8, 2017. DL Press Release | Routesonline
  98. 08/14/16 Delta Adds SEA-EUG NEW 3x daily CRJ-700 starting April 1, 2017. Routesonline
  99. 08/14/16 Delta Adds SEA-RDU NEW daily 737-800 starting June 8, 2017. Routesonline
  100. 08/31/16 Delta discontinues SEA-BIL nonstop flights. Delta.com
  101. 08/31/16 Delta discontinues SEA-JNU from year round to seasonal until May 19, 2017. Delta.com
  102. 09/05/16 Delta discontinues SEA-MSO and SEA-BZN nonstop flights. Delta.com
  103. 10/21/2016 Delta opens a beautiful, spacious, new lounge at SeaTac, further showing how uninspiring the Board Rooms are.
  104. Further chronology? Please add! Loss of benefits, etc.
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Old Oct 1, 13, 2:10 am
  #1  
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DL Encroaches Further on AS' Turf - Master Thread

As reported in the DL forum:
Originally Posted by gustoj820 View Post
Looks like Delta is playing hardball in SEA. Also interesting to note that with this addition, the continental US feed into the Narita hub is almost fully replicated in SEA.

1. New SEA-SFO (6x daily eff Mar 28, 7x daily eff Jun 05) on CP E175:

5781 SEASFO 0630-0840
5805 SEASFO 0855-1105*
5734 SEASFO 1000-1210
5736 SEASFO 1200-1410
5738 SEASFO 1515-1725
5742 SEASFO 1730-1940
5787 SEASFO 2025-2235

* eff June 05 2014

5734 SFOSEA 0700-0905
5736 SFOSEA 0915-1120
5738 SFOSEA 1135-1340
5782 SFOSEA 1300-1505*
5742 SFOSEA 1445-1650
5787 SFOSEA 1750-1955
5785 SFOSEA 2010-2215

* eff June 05 2014

2. SEA-LAX goes to 7x daily in June, utilizing a mix of 6x CP E175 and one Delta A319.

3. SEA-LAS will get an extra frequency in Apr 2014 bringing it to 5x daily.
I'm amazed at the lift DL has added to SEA in the past year, specifically piggybacking AS' routes. SEA-LAX links two of DL's International Gateways. But with SEA-LAS,SFO and a seasonal ANC... wow. Will AS react? Can we gain a frequency to DTW or JFK? Does AS have the lift to react? Or as someone posted in the DL version, is this another nail for VX...
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Old Oct 1, 13, 7:44 am
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Originally Posted by beckoa View Post
As reported in the DL forum:


I'm amazed at the lift DL has added to SEA in the past year, specifically piggybacking AS' routes. SEA-LAX links two of DL's International Gateways. But with SEA-LAS,SFO and a seasonal ANC... wow. Will AS react? Can we gain a frequency to DTW or JFK? Does AS have the lift to react? Or as someone posted in the DL version, is this another nail for VX...
With the expanded international service out of SEA, DL has probably seen their customer base grow considerably, so they are adding service to tailor to the expanded customer base. Most of them would prefer to fly on DL metal not AS+DL metal.

It is always much more convenient when a trip involves one airline, and business travelers prefer that. If I am flying on AS SFO-SEA then DL SEA-PVG and the AS flight goes mechanical in SFO, AS will be very limited at how they can reaccommodate that customer compared to having a DL SFO-SEA flight go pear shaped.

AS is not going to react, DL is doing what is best for DL and AS will do what is best for AS. That might mean reduced frequencies now that DL flies it, no point for AS to offer the same # of frequencies when the aircraft can be used on more profitable routes with little or no competition. Or add more frequencies on those routes to protect their territory.

Or just simply do nothing and just move along. Time will tell. But DL is starting to look more attractive for west coast customers and I think UA is going to be the biggest loser here and rightly so with their ridiculous cuts/downgauges...
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Old Oct 1, 13, 8:29 am
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That's a lot of lift on SEA-SFO/LAX between AS, DL, UA and VX. Great for price wars. Not so great for the airlines

Originally Posted by golfingboy View Post
AS is not going to react, DL is doing what is best for DL and AS will do what is best for AS. That might mean reduced frequencies now that DL flies it, no point for AS to offer the same # of frequencies when the aircraft can be used on more profitable routes with little or no competition.
What makes you think that DL's going to stop at SEA-SFO?

I think there's a good chance the AS-DL partnership disappears within the next few years- once DL has all the feed they need at SEA, why bother? I also think DL is trying to do a "merge or die" on AS.
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Old Oct 1, 13, 8:46 am
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
What makes you think that DL's going to stop at SEA-SFO?

I think there's a good chance the AS-DL partnership disappears within the next few years- once DL has all the feed they need at SEA, why bother? I also think DL is trying to do a "merge or die" on AS.
Never said they will stop, was just pointing out all possible scenarios AS will do [concede, attack, or do nothing]. I think DL is going to continue to add more routes and slowly erode AS's customer base. I think DL has an ulterior motive here, but that is all speculation on my part.

AS may be a partner, but in the end they are competition for DL and the best way to drive up profits aside from innovation is by eliminating competition [mergers, acquistion, putting them out of business, territorial monopoly like the cable companies, etc].
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Old Oct 1, 13, 9:26 am
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Let's get this merger over with.
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Old Oct 1, 13, 9:26 am
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AS already has much reduced capacity over years past on the route. Most SFO flyers (even on DL) don't need to fly to SEA to get across the Pacific.

Interesting move. I doubt AS is going to dump capacity and start a fare war (not that one may not occur).
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Old Oct 1, 13, 9:28 am
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It's quite possible this turns into a Denver a la Southwest trying to eliminate Frontier and erode United
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Old Oct 1, 13, 9:31 am
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I see a lot about this AS vs. DL "war" on several blogs. I am not so sure that there really is a war going on. I think it is more likely that with DL's massive increase in international flying out of SEA that AS is not able to provide sufficient feed. These are E175 that DL is operating so we are not really talking that much volume.
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Old Oct 1, 13, 9:38 am
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Two entirely separate business models. DL did not get into upping its West Coast game (including SFO-LAX) to engage in a price war which ultimately hurts the bottom line. There's little in this for DL and everything in it for AS.

If this experiment fails, DL can repurpose its West Coast microhaul strategy in a few weeks. AS, on the other hand, can't really do that.
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Old Oct 1, 13, 10:30 am
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Seems that DL is cherry picking the bigger west coast O&D routes from SEA...LAX, LAS, HNL (albeit a NW inheritance), ANC (albeit seasonally), and now SFO.
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Old Oct 1, 13, 12:54 pm
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Hawaii has lost most of the legacy NW service (well at least half) at the hands of AS.

DL also has more of these smaller regional a/c on order too, but primaraly for replacement of CRJ200's.
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Old Oct 1, 13, 3:17 pm
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Originally Posted by beckoa View Post
As reported in the DL forum:


I'm amazed at the lift DL has added to SEA in the past year, specifically piggybacking AS' routes. SEA-LAX links two of DL's International Gateways. But with SEA-LAS,SFO and a seasonal ANC... wow. Will AS react? Can we gain a frequency to DTW or JFK? Does AS have the lift to react? Or as someone posted in the DL version, is this another nail for VX...
they could possibly invade MSP from the north direction
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Old Oct 1, 13, 3:24 pm
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Originally Posted by ANC
Originally Posted by beckoa View Post
As reported in the DL forum:


I'm amazed at the lift DL has added to SEA in the past year, specifically piggybacking AS' routes. SEA-LAX links two of DL's International Gateways. But with SEA-LAS,SFO and a seasonal ANC... wow. Will AS react? Can we gain a frequency to DTW or JFK? Does AS have the lift to react? Or as someone posted in the DL version, is this another nail for VX...
they could possibly invade MSP from the north direction
Ooo I like this

Perhaps next summer?
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Old Oct 1, 13, 7:32 pm
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Originally Posted by beckoa View Post

DL also has more of these smaller regional a/c on order too, but primaraly for replacement of CRJ200's.
Not quite, DL has 100 739ERs that they are going to start receiving them now.. 12 by the end of the year then 19 planes every year through 2017. They also have the A321s and A330s on order. DL's mainline orderbook is bigger than the entire AS fleet including QX and that does not include the E-Jet order.

Quite frankly AS is small potatoes compared to WN, DL, UA, and the new AA if the merger goes through.

Those airlines are vastly bigger and much more versatile than AS when it comes to expanding into new markets and shifting things around.

I think DL is piggy backing on AS right now as they build their customer base in SEA and the west coast (they are expanding LAX too) then when they feel their west coast network is strong and established with a solid customer base, there is no point for them to keep AS then they will dump AS. It is business, they are not there to be sentimental or get all cutesy with competitors, they are there to make money. Screwing AS wouldn't be the first time, DL screwed many of their SkyTeam partners in recent months. Again, all speculation, we will see in a couple of years. All of this recent development is certainly intriguing.

WRT to Hawaii service, it is not just AS, Hawaiian has expanded a lot, and I figure DL felt they weren't in a good position to compete in the low yielding high volume Hawaii market and elected to downsize the service.

Last edited by golfingboy; Oct 1, 13 at 9:17 pm
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Old Oct 2, 13, 3:11 am
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Article:

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n...essure-on.html

Last edited by jackal; Oct 2, 13 at 7:57 am Reason: Activating hyperlink--URLs posted from the crappy FT WAP interface don't automatically get parsed
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