AZ to end AF/KL partnership from january 2017
Jan 20, 2017, 3:16 am
#151
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: CPT,AMS
Posts: 4,412
At the ticket counter itself...
The agent managed to find the spaces available, but she was not able to reissue the ticket originally issued in the 055 stock...I remembered since I was already there for close to half an hour she trying, she told me the best was myself to call AZ to get it changed as she could not re-issue it. (I called AZ couple of days later and this was done with no issue). This lead me to believe that KL does not have power over these things when issued on 055 stock.
The agent managed to find the spaces available, but she was not able to reissue the ticket originally issued in the 055 stock...I remembered since I was already there for close to half an hour she trying, she told me the best was myself to call AZ to get it changed as she could not re-issue it. (I called AZ couple of days later and this was done with no issue). This lead me to believe that KL does not have power over these things when issued on 055 stock.I can't remember anymore if the new ticket was issued on 055 or 074 stock, but the original one was AZ all the way (operated, marketed and ticket stock)
Jan 20, 2017, 12:57 pm
#152
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,289
Cheers!
Jan 21, 2017, 9:56 am
#154
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,940
Jan 21, 2017, 12:08 pm
#155
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,568
Codeshare still present on CDG-FCO but it seems that AF does no offer light fares on AZ metal, only STANDARD or F. At least for the dates I checked. Similarly KL from AMS still codeshare but only at FLEX fare (not even STANDARD).
So the codesharing has lost most of its attraction.
Same in business, much more expensive on AZ codeshare.
So the codesharing has lost most of its attraction.
Same in business, much more expensive on AZ codeshare.
Last edited by brunos; Jan 21, 2017 at 12:20 pm
Jan 22, 2017, 9:29 am
#156
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,367
Mar 4, 2017, 1:56 am
#157
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum For Life; ALL Platinum
Posts: 203
I booked a return flight at spring between CDG-LIN; the CDG-LIN operated by AF and return operated by AZ;
I was advised of cancellation of my outbound flight and I was able to be rebooked on a flight 2 hours earlier to Linate as well ; At that time I ask if my return flight would be in trouble… they told me no because booking was done on a AZ operated flight; Few weeks later I notice that my return flight was also cancelled: after checking on AZ Website I find out it was because of the code share agreement between AF and AZ that has stopped, as the flight was still operating under AZ metal ; AF rebooks me but from MXP this time which doesn’t suits me at all; So I ring the Plat line and I ask the lady to rebook me on the only AF flight out of LIN which was 2 hours later than my original booking; After asking a supervisor she comes back to me and said it is only possible if you accept to pay the fare difference… I was badly surprised by this answer as flight is AF marketed, with an AF code flight number and it appears cancelled on my booking; The lady on the phone explains me that due to the ‘divorce’ between AF and AZ they receive instruction to rebook passenger from MXP and people willing to flight from Linate has to pay fare difference… I answered her it is unacceptable as the divorce is not my problem and they need to handle the consequence of it, as they sell the ticket; So she goes back to a supervisor who finally accepts to make the change without cost, as a commercial gesture; I check after on AF website and notice that the flight they rebook me initially from MPL was more expensive than the one from Linate they finished to accept to rebook me on...
Conclusion :
a) not sure if the lady didn’t make an error by understanding I wanted to be rebooked under Alitalia flightnumber on my original departure time although I gave her clearly my will to go on the latest AF flight from Linate, or if it is a new ‘rule’; I find out a post from Goldorak from January 16, stating that :
For already issued tickets :
- already issued tickets remain valid
- changes on onward flight coupon (unused ticket) will be re-emitted applying the new fare rules and will not allow a combination with an AZ fare
- changes of all other flight coupons will be re-calculated taking into account the originally-paid fare wich still allows combinability with AZ
I think that as my first coupon outbound was changed due to the flight canceled by AF I fall in the red highlighted category;
b) The bookings done under AF flight number but operated by Alitalia are now cancelled and AF doesn’t rebook under Alitalia flight number but rebook from MXP; Some passengers will have an unpleasant surprise when the flight from Linate is full (with on A318, it will come fast);
c) Plat line is useful I cannot imagine if I have to handle it through standard call center or worse if I book through an expedia or similar third party agent;
I was advised of cancellation of my outbound flight and I was able to be rebooked on a flight 2 hours earlier to Linate as well ; At that time I ask if my return flight would be in trouble… they told me no because booking was done on a AZ operated flight; Few weeks later I notice that my return flight was also cancelled: after checking on AZ Website I find out it was because of the code share agreement between AF and AZ that has stopped, as the flight was still operating under AZ metal ; AF rebooks me but from MXP this time which doesn’t suits me at all; So I ring the Plat line and I ask the lady to rebook me on the only AF flight out of LIN which was 2 hours later than my original booking; After asking a supervisor she comes back to me and said it is only possible if you accept to pay the fare difference… I was badly surprised by this answer as flight is AF marketed, with an AF code flight number and it appears cancelled on my booking; The lady on the phone explains me that due to the ‘divorce’ between AF and AZ they receive instruction to rebook passenger from MXP and people willing to flight from Linate has to pay fare difference… I answered her it is unacceptable as the divorce is not my problem and they need to handle the consequence of it, as they sell the ticket; So she goes back to a supervisor who finally accepts to make the change without cost, as a commercial gesture; I check after on AF website and notice that the flight they rebook me initially from MPL was more expensive than the one from Linate they finished to accept to rebook me on...
Conclusion :
a) not sure if the lady didn’t make an error by understanding I wanted to be rebooked under Alitalia flightnumber on my original departure time although I gave her clearly my will to go on the latest AF flight from Linate, or if it is a new ‘rule’; I find out a post from Goldorak from January 16, stating that :
For already issued tickets :
- already issued tickets remain valid
- changes on onward flight coupon (unused ticket) will be re-emitted applying the new fare rules and will not allow a combination with an AZ fare
- changes of all other flight coupons will be re-calculated taking into account the originally-paid fare wich still allows combinability with AZ
I think that as my first coupon outbound was changed due to the flight canceled by AF I fall in the red highlighted category;
b) The bookings done under AF flight number but operated by Alitalia are now cancelled and AF doesn’t rebook under Alitalia flight number but rebook from MXP; Some passengers will have an unpleasant surprise when the flight from Linate is full (with on A318, it will come fast);
c) Plat line is useful I cannot imagine if I have to handle it through standard call center or worse if I book through an expedia or similar third party agent;
Mar 5, 2017, 1:04 am
#158
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,940
I booked a return flight at spring between CDG-LIN; the CDG-LIN operated by AF and return operated by AZ;
I was advised of cancellation of my outbound flight and I was able to be rebooked on a flight 2 hours earlier to Linate as well ; At that time I ask if my return flight would be in trouble… they told me no because booking was done on a AZ operated flight; Few weeks later I notice that my return flight was also cancelled: after checking on AZ Website I find out it was because of the code share agreement between AF and AZ that has stopped, as the flight was still operating under AZ metal ; AF rebooks me but from MXP this time which doesn’t suits me at all; So I ring the Plat line and I ask the lady to rebook me on the only AF flight out of LIN which was 2 hours later than my original booking; After asking a supervisor she comes back to me and said it is only possible if you accept to pay the fare difference… I was badly surprised by this answer as flight is AF marketed, with an AF code flight number and it appears cancelled on my booking; The lady on the phone explains me that due to the ‘divorce’ between AF and AZ they receive instruction to rebook passenger from MXP and people willing to flight from Linate has to pay fare difference… I answered her it is unacceptable as the divorce is not my problem and they need to handle the consequence of it, as they sell the ticket; So she goes back to a supervisor who finally accepts to make the change without cost, as a commercial gesture; I check after on AF website and notice that the flight they rebook me initially from MPL was more expensive than the one from Linate they finished to accept to rebook me on...
Conclusion :
a) not sure if the lady didn’t make an error by understanding I wanted to be rebooked under Alitalia flightnumber on my original departure time although I gave her clearly my will to go on the latest AF flight from Linate, or if it is a new ‘rule’; I find out a post from Goldorak from January 16, stating that :
For already issued tickets :
- already issued tickets remain valid
- changes on onward flight coupon (unused ticket) will be re-emitted applying the new fare rules and will not allow a combination with an AZ fare
- changes of all other flight coupons will be re-calculated taking into account the originally-paid fare wich still allows combinability with AZ
I think that as my first coupon outbound was changed due to the flight canceled by AF I fall in the red highlighted category;
b) The bookings done under AF flight number but operated by Alitalia are now cancelled and AF doesn’t rebook under Alitalia flight number but rebook from MXP; Some passengers will have an unpleasant surprise when the flight from Linate is full (with on A318, it will come fast);
c) Plat line is useful I cannot imagine if I have to handle it through standard call center or worse if I book through an expedia or similar third party agent;
I was advised of cancellation of my outbound flight and I was able to be rebooked on a flight 2 hours earlier to Linate as well ; At that time I ask if my return flight would be in trouble… they told me no because booking was done on a AZ operated flight; Few weeks later I notice that my return flight was also cancelled: after checking on AZ Website I find out it was because of the code share agreement between AF and AZ that has stopped, as the flight was still operating under AZ metal ; AF rebooks me but from MXP this time which doesn’t suits me at all; So I ring the Plat line and I ask the lady to rebook me on the only AF flight out of LIN which was 2 hours later than my original booking; After asking a supervisor she comes back to me and said it is only possible if you accept to pay the fare difference… I was badly surprised by this answer as flight is AF marketed, with an AF code flight number and it appears cancelled on my booking; The lady on the phone explains me that due to the ‘divorce’ between AF and AZ they receive instruction to rebook passenger from MXP and people willing to flight from Linate has to pay fare difference… I answered her it is unacceptable as the divorce is not my problem and they need to handle the consequence of it, as they sell the ticket; So she goes back to a supervisor who finally accepts to make the change without cost, as a commercial gesture; I check after on AF website and notice that the flight they rebook me initially from MPL was more expensive than the one from Linate they finished to accept to rebook me on...
Conclusion :
a) not sure if the lady didn’t make an error by understanding I wanted to be rebooked under Alitalia flightnumber on my original departure time although I gave her clearly my will to go on the latest AF flight from Linate, or if it is a new ‘rule’; I find out a post from Goldorak from January 16, stating that :
For already issued tickets :
- already issued tickets remain valid
- changes on onward flight coupon (unused ticket) will be re-emitted applying the new fare rules and will not allow a combination with an AZ fare
- changes of all other flight coupons will be re-calculated taking into account the originally-paid fare wich still allows combinability with AZ
I think that as my first coupon outbound was changed due to the flight canceled by AF I fall in the red highlighted category;
b) The bookings done under AF flight number but operated by Alitalia are now cancelled and AF doesn’t rebook under Alitalia flight number but rebook from MXP; Some passengers will have an unpleasant surprise when the flight from Linate is full (with on A318, it will come fast);
c) Plat line is useful I cannot imagine if I have to handle it through standard call center or worse if I book through an expedia or similar third party agent;
1/ Report involontaire (sans frais) sur LIN ou sur autre vol AF :
- dans la même classe de réservation, même cabine de transport
- si classe / cabine non disponible : report dans une classe / cabine supérieure avec perception de la différence tarifaire
2/ Rerouting involontaire (sans frais de modification) sur MXP dans un délai de 30 jours :
- dans la même classe de réservation, même cabine de transport
- si classe / cabine non disponible : report dans une classe / cabine supérieure sans percevoir la différence tarifaire
3/ Les clients sur les vols Nord-Atlantique pourront être reportés sur les vols AF marketing/DL operating ou DL MXP/JFK et MXP/ATL dans la même cabine.
- dans la même classe de réservation, même cabine de transport
- si classe / cabine non disponible : report dans une classe / cabine supérieure avec perception de la différence tarifaire
2/ Rerouting involontaire (sans frais de modification) sur MXP dans un délai de 30 jours :
- dans la même classe de réservation, même cabine de transport
- si classe / cabine non disponible : report dans une classe / cabine supérieure sans percevoir la différence tarifaire
3/ Les clients sur les vols Nord-Atlantique pourront être reportés sur les vols AF marketing/DL operating ou DL MXP/JFK et MXP/ATL dans la même cabine.
Mar 6, 2017, 11:34 am
#159
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 246
Looks like codeshare flights started to reduce
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/...routes-in-s17/
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/...routes-in-s17/
Mar 6, 2017, 3:56 pm
#160
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,940
Looks like codeshare flights started to reduce
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/...routes-in-s17/
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/...routes-in-s17/
Mar 6, 2017, 9:07 pm
#162
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,568
My guess is that AF has more to lose as these were feeders to their longhaul.
I don't know the situation at FCO, but wonder if AF will also lose slots there as at LIN.
I don't know the situation at FCO, but wonder if AF will also lose slots there as at LIN.
Mar 6, 2017, 10:32 pm
#163
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,754
- changes of all other flight coupons will be re-calculated taking into account the originally-paid fare wich still allows combinability with AZ
I think that as my first coupon outbound was changed due to the flight canceled by AF I fall in the red highlighted category;
Mar 6, 2017, 11:59 pm
#164
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,289
Just last weekend, had a very strange experience since I was on a code share AZ flight but operated by KLM. At the origin airport, they could not issue the KLM operated leg boarding pass - was told that the systems don't talk to each other and told to get the boarding pass @ FCO upon arrival.
Upon arrival @ FCO, at the AZ transit desk, when I tried to get this, I was sent to go to the KLM transit desk - but I went directly to the gate since the flight was already boarding.
For me - this already shows how bad it is already before all this started - as both ST and (post close working partners), they can't issue boarding passes. I am not sure if this is due to the recent changes in the reservation/booking system of AZ.
Furthermore, at the outstation, with my FB number, there was no recognition of the status (not sure if this is due as indicated in the AZ forum - the changes in the AZ booking/passenger control system).
Cheers!
Upon arrival @ FCO, at the AZ transit desk, when I tried to get this, I was sent to go to the KLM transit desk - but I went directly to the gate since the flight was already boarding.
For me - this already shows how bad it is already before all this started - as both ST and (post close working partners), they can't issue boarding passes. I am not sure if this is due to the recent changes in the reservation/booking system of AZ.
Furthermore, at the outstation, with my FB number, there was no recognition of the status (not sure if this is due as indicated in the AZ forum - the changes in the AZ booking/passenger control system).
Cheers!
Mar 7, 2017, 12:28 am
#165
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,546
Just last weekend, had a very strange experience since I was on a code share AZ flight but operated by KLM. At the origin airport, they could not issue the KLM operated leg boarding pass - was told that the systems don't talk to each other and told to get the boarding pass @ FCO upon arrival.
Upon arrival @ FCO, at the AZ transit desk, when I tried to get this, I was sent to go to the KLM transit desk - but I went directly to the gate since the flight was already boarding.
For me - this already shows how bad it is already before all this started - as both ST and (post close working partners), they can't issue boarding passes. I am not sure if this is due to the recent changes in the reservation/booking system of AZ.
Furthermore, at the outstation, with my FB number, there was no recognition of the status (not sure if this is due as indicated in the AZ forum - the changes in the AZ booking/passenger control system).
Cheers!
Upon arrival @ FCO, at the AZ transit desk, when I tried to get this, I was sent to go to the KLM transit desk - but I went directly to the gate since the flight was already boarding.
For me - this already shows how bad it is already before all this started - as both ST and (post close working partners), they can't issue boarding passes. I am not sure if this is due to the recent changes in the reservation/booking system of AZ.
Furthermore, at the outstation, with my FB number, there was no recognition of the status (not sure if this is due as indicated in the AZ forum - the changes in the AZ booking/passenger control system).
Cheers!
In terms of status recognition can you specify what you mean? Effectively, in most outstations, your ST E+ privileges would be limited to priority check in and priority boarding as few offer priority security for status members (often C only) and lounge access does not automatically apply to status holders if it is a third party lounge.