irishguy28

We are talking about the potential scenario of AZ moving from its current alliance. It is in no way restricted to discussion of FFP status levels - alliance membership is not only of relevance to FFP status members - but ALL rules imposed by Star Alliance, held up as a better model than Skyteam.

The fact remains, there are examples where, in Star Alliance, lounge access would also be refused for domestic flights. Lounge access is not guaranteed to every Star Alliance passenger - either with status, or a business-class ticket - in all domestic-flight instances.

NickB

Indeed. As regards lounges for frequent flyers,* as a rule OW>*A>ST, both in terms of access conditions and lounge quality (although there will always be exceptions at particular airports re lounge quality).


*: this would exclude the AF La Première and LH/LX FCLs, which are outside the alliance lounge network and have their own special rules.

NickB

I am sorry but your statement that "On Star Alliance, that really depends. There is no blanket lounge access guarantee for Star Golds on all domestic flights...." is misleading when we are talking about a European airline joining *A.

Unlike ST, there is guaranteed access to *A lounges even on domestic flights for *A Gold card members with one specific exception for UA elites.

If AZ was a US-based airline with its own paid lounge access programme, it would be a fair observation. But this is not the case and therefore the carve out for UA in *A rules has very little relevance here.

San Gottardo

Oh yes, I forgot about that one! Terrible.

And not only luggage: as a HON traveling on a light fare you can‘t get a free seat assignment either, although when you then do OLCI you always miracously find yourself the best seats pre-assigned, and the neighbouring seats blocked (this is for a HON flying on LH/LX light fares. No idea what it is like on other Star airlines).

But then, how many times would a HON be on a light fare? Clearly not the majority of his flights unless he is heading for no longer requalifying, as light fares - in fact all Economy Class fares - do not earn any HON qualifying miles.

Still, that no free luggage and no free seat assignment is a raised middle finger of LH to its most loyal customers, and something that I find extremely irritating.

NickB

BA had pretty similar policies for BAEC G (no bag at all on basic fares and no seat preassignment) but they re-introduced free seat assignment on basic fares (+ blocked neighbouring seat when possible).

San Gottardo

(Bolding mine...) Well... the number of lounges ran by LH in Europe has reduced drastically. LX and OS do not run any more lounges in Europe outside of Switzerland and Austria. At alliance partner airports like LIS or IST or CPH the lounge of the local hub partners are used, with varying quality. At some airports there are proper LH lounges, the only ones I can think of right now are at German airports (HAM, TXL, DUS, etc), ATH, CDG, LHR and MXP (there may be others?). Other than that it's contract lounges, including in major cities like Rome, Amsterdam, Moscow or Madrid.

LH's own SEN lounges are good in Germany (but apparently very crowded in FRA and MUC), the one in LHR is great (also often quite busy but rarely overcrowded), CDG is depressing because of its sub-terranian bunker location but otherwise okay-ish, and MXP nothing to write home about.

They tend to be better than AF and BA at outstations, bearning in mind that of course AF and BA also use the same logic of using alliance partners' lounges and contract lounges in many cases.

SK is the other European Star airline with some lounges at outstations (HEL, CDG). If they're all like CDG then they're quite ghastly.

At some airports like LHR there is the possibility to use the lounges of other Star partners like SQ, AC and UA, who happen to be quite decent.

So, if someone's Alitalia SkyTeam Elite Plus status were to morphe into Lufthansa SEN then that person would certainly not enter lounge heaven but not be worse off either in Europe. And beyond that have full lounge access when flying on domestic-only flights for instance in Japan, the US, Canada or China.

1) he discussion on lounge access emerged from this exchange: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28976640-post234.html, which was related to top tier status. The poster I responded to has FB Platinum status, and so I asked him why his wish for AZ to remain in SkyTeam was related to this status, and I went on to compare access rules for ST Elite Plus vs. Star Gold. Admittedly, that link was implicit but still clear in the context.
2) The fact is that Star Gold - and also OW Emerald - have access to lounges on domestic-only flights (with the usual exception of US-FFP members on flights in North America), ST Elite Plus do not.

Xandrios

A HON would never be on a light fare I suspect, unless maybe they were no longer trying to re-qualify (I understand that Economy flights do not count towards re-qualification).

But because of that the rule actually becomes even more ridiculous: If HON's don't fly light fares, then why would they deny luggage allowance? The damage that this does (You described it in a colorful way) is much larger than the savings, I would think.

Good point. While I love the LH lounge in ATH, the dump that is the AMS contract lounge is almost worth avoiding.

Still, the hub lounges (and a number of outstation ones) are very good with *A. While with Skyteam I feel that even most hub lounges are mediocre at best. Ever tried the RO hub lounge at OTP? That is even a full-fledged FlyingBlue member

NickB

I am not sure that I would describe the loungs of OS, TP or even SK at their respective hubs as "very good". I would agree, however, that ST lines up some real duds on that front (RO at OTP, as you mention, AR at EZE, VN at SGN, SU at SVO or even KE at ICN, among others).

caliform

I have no great experience with *A, but living in San Francisco with business and family in the Netherlands, there's no other airline than KLM that flies to AMS direct. Our favorite vacation destination + wife's work is in Italy, so I selfishly want AZ to stay in Skyteam

tbaiyun

As OTP does not have any real long-haul flight, I will say that is acceptable.

But I will definitely add AM at MEX and SV at JED on the list.

San Gottardo

Not sure about other HONs but I actually do! My shuttling between my two "hubs/homes/lifes" (pick your term) is 50%-60% in C class and 40%-50% in Economy. And when it's Economy it's *always* on a Light fare. Because I never have luggage and I get the good seat pre-assigned anyway (in front, neighbouring seat blocked) in 98% of cases there is no point in spending more just to pay for luggage that I don't have and a seat which I get anyway. Fast lane at security, priority boarding, lounge access (incl. First Class Lounge in Zurich) is all the same, even at the Light fare. And I still requalify with all the other flying.

Exactly!

San Gottardo

Shouldn't the dreadful Crown Rooms at AMS also be on the list? The Crown Lounge Catering thread seems to suggest so! And I agree.

jsfr

SK CDG lounge currently closed for renovation... (with no real alternative offered )

johan rebel

LH used to have its own lounge at AMS, on the left at the beginning of the B concourse. It was pretty decent.

Johan

NickB

It is very unexciting offering, I agree, but does not plunge to quite the same depth of mediocrity as the likes of RO, AR or VN at their hubs (can't comment on AM or SV as I am not familiar with these). Perhaps KE would be reasonably close to KL but, given that this is an Asian airline, expectations tend to be higher, hence why KE is so disappointing.