Goldorak

This is index correct.

They count if you have been granted FB plat since the beginning, as said by Brunos, based on your earning the last year of FP.

brunos

You are right that this becomes an empirical question.
Does AF make a gesture and are willing to only count end-of-the-year status rather than continuity over 10 years? You are right to ask the experience of others in your situation. Two words of caution though.
First, I noticed that posts like "a friend of my cousin had ..." are often incorrect, while posts about personal experience tend to be more reliable. Second, it could be that AF was "generous" a few years back with members having been FP Rouge or FD PE for many years. But their policy could have changed and they might be more restrictive today.

Regarding being granted FB Gold or Plat in June 2005: I was given FB Gold and I believe that this applied to a majority of FP rouges.

San Gottardo

This thread is becoming funny if it weren't so sad... Here we have a large number of people who obviously are loyal AFKL customers since many many years, trying to figure out how the airline's FFP works with respect to lifetime elite status.

The airline meanwhile, rather than realizing that it's small print on the website isn't clear and coming up with an easy-to-understand explanation (something like, "if you have received 10 Platinum of FP Rouge cards in a row, the 11th one and all subsequent ones will be "for life") all it does is ignore this large number of loyal customers, insist on its complicated and convoluted and clearly customer-unfriendly way of designing and communicating its program.

I'll never stop being amazed how self-centered they are, how incapable of seeing things from a customer's perspective and designing things so that they are good for a customer and easy to use. Instead they arrange things in ways that suit them, their staff, their structure, etc. Like a bureaucracy.

bodory

The key point is here : 10 qualifications in a row or 10 continuous years ?

I cannot find the post anymore but I am pretty sure an AF insider confirmed on this board (maybe several years ago) it was based on the number of qualifications.

When introducing FB, AF/KL was pretty unfair with the part of their FP Rouge who were given a mid-tier card in FB without the opportunity for them to achieve retroactively qualification on the 70/90k threshold because that occurred without notice and more importantly in the middle of the year. Remember how they kept secret the new program in the early months of the merger.

delanotre

When FB program begun, they wrote:
"Platinum for Life
After ten consecutive years as a Platinum member, cardholders become lifetime Platinum members. Their years at the status of Fréquence Plus Red or Flying Dutchman Platinum Elite will be accounted for. They will enjoy the full range of benefits to which they are entitled."
The link
http://corporate.airfrance.com/uploa...program_01.pdf

We need a precise rule about it: what is a year?
If you qualify in december 1st, does it count as 1 st year? In other words, you are FP red in march, FB gold in june and FB Plat in december, is it one year that counts at the highest level?
During 3 years the website decrementes from 2 to 0 for LTPE...and, in july (thanks Mogoy), from 0 to 2...

May I ask to FT'ers that met AF last year to ask for that rules? (by phone I had two opposite answers, the website is right-you need two more years because you were not FB Plat directly in june- and the website is wrong, you will be LTPE in april 2014, as you were FP red since november 2003)

stimpy

I think your only realistic option is to wait til you hear from FB in April, or hopefully earlier, that you have lifetime status. If I were you, I would operate under the assumption that I do not have it until FB confirms in writing that you do have it.

delanotre

Thanks. Yes, today I need to travel some more flights to do not loose and interupt my long way (13 years) to LTPE status.
I appreciate San Gottardo opinion about unfriendly, I would say irrespect, of the Flying Blue french team for customers.

brunos

Stimpy made a good suggestion. Wait till April and then get a supervisor to push you to LPTE. My experience with most (not all) FB agents is that they are not well trained and often consider you as a potential cheater. On the other hand, my experience with AF call center in France or China is usually (not always) excellent.

I do not know what they say in French and it would be more relevant. But the English words seem clear to me: "After ten consecutive years as a Platinum member". You only made Plat in November 2005. Before that you were Gold. Again, there is no harm trying.

delanotre

Yes, it is clear to you, but how think about all LTPE until now, as the program begun in 2005 june and we are only in 2013... 10 years mean 2015 !
For FB (and FP before) a year means from january 1st to december 31st to qualify in any status.
I am in the 11th year of highest level status in their program and they ask me to do 2 years more!

mogoy

As far as I am concerned, the website previously showed 0 year to go to become Plat for life. Now it is shown 2 years.
I phoned to FB service desk three times in the last 8 years about that and was confirmed every time that my 2 years of FP Rouge were counting for Plat for life. And that was confirmed again this very year after April 1st.

I had been said that on dec 30 of this year (2013) I would become Plat for life (I qualified FP rouge on Dec 30th 2003 for the first time, then also during 2004 qualification year, hence 2 year of FP rouge).

For the last 8 years, their position was consistent.
If they change the policy now, without even trying to contact me directly, that would be the last and final straw.

I can understand the successive miles devaluation or miles accrual rate but that is a retroactive decision on a long term effort.

I will call them tomorrow since I did not get an answer as promised in the chat discussion a couple of weeks ago.

Goldorak

Again, this is because you have not been directly FB Plat at the launch of FB in 2005 but you were FB gold as per one of your earlier post. So due to this, your years as FP red do not count and the 10 years clock started when you reached plat the 1st time (you said end 2005).
At the time of FP, as a French resident, you needed 60k qualifying miles a year to become/requalify FP red. When FB was launched in 2005, as you know plat level was created with a 90k threshold for French residents. At that time some people (like me) received directly a FB platinum card because, the year before in 2004 (still FP), I was above 90k. So in this case, all consecutive years as FP red counted for the 10 years-in-a-row (even if you were between 60 and 90k for the years prior to 2004). In your case, as you received a FB gold card in 2005 at the creation of FB, it means that in 2004 you were between 60k and 90k so not eligible for the plat card.
I hope this is clearer

mogoy

I am in the same situation and was confirmed three times over the years that my 2 FP Rouge years (that were below 90K) were counted toward LTPE.

And from April 1st to recently, my account page stated :

Platinum since 2005, 0 year to qualify for LTPE

So it was also acknowledged by them that FP rouge counted irrespective of actual miles earned to achieve FP Rouge.

orbitmic

To be honest, I don't actually think it would be within the powers of a supervisor to force the system to recognise a member as PfL if the system says otherwise. FB is a small structure, and while local supervisors may have the authority to authorise such things as fee waiving or recrediting, my guess is that for such a system override to make someone PfL if he does not seem to qualify according to the records, this may have to be validated by Paris. Again, I tend to believe that the explanation offered by brunos and Goldorak is probably the correct one. I do think it is a bit unfair as people did not know what they needed to achieve to be able to continue as Platinum (in fairness, though, neither did we have any clue there would be such a thing as PfL at that time!) so one could hope that they would be sympathetic but I am aware that FB 'protect' their PfL status and probably won't want to go much beyond what they believe are the entitlements.

delanotre

on 2005 november 30th.

So, are all LTPE members of the forum in the same situation than you, FP red with 90000 miles in 2004 or 90000 miles from 2005 january 1st to june 6th?

Why do not tell that all FP red years to be accounted need to have been earned with 70/90000 EQM instead of 60000? Is this your case?

For me "years as FP red" mean years as FP red with the rules of FP not with the rules that are edicted for a new program and a new status .

orbitmic

But that is not what he is saying. The issue is not with the years as FP red, it is with 'continuously Platinum'. If you are platinum now and have been for 8 years, then drop to gold because on 1 March 2014 because you only fly 65k in 2013, then regain Platinum in April 2014, then you won't get your PfL because FB argues that your short spell as FB Gold (even for only 1 month) cancelled your lifetime balance and restarted your meter at 0 for 2014 (so you may only qualify for PfL in 2024!) So the interpretation of brunos and Goldorak - and again I tend to believe that they are guessing right - is that FB considers that your spell as FB Gold between June and November 2005 restarted your meter and this is why your previous years as FP rouge got lost.

They are not saying that this is right/fair by the way but just trying to make sense of FB's statement. If someone was matched to FB Gold from FP red when FB was introduced and have still already received their PfL then it would suggest that this interpretation is wrong.

However, it does seem that those of us who have already received PfL are all people who were Platinum from the inception of FB so who did not face that issue of discontinuity. In such case, all previous years as FD platinum or FP rouge were indeed counted.