orbitmic

Sorry but that's really pathetic, uncalled for, and not consistent with the spirit of one of the friendliest FT fora that I know.

People quoted your post unadulterated and the proof that it was indeed "clear" but not in the way you thought is that you yourself wondered if someone had not modified it when it was quoted and you saw it a few days later (it was not).

Your thoughts might have been different from what you actually wrote (although your follow up exchange with San Gottardo at the time does not make this sound all that likely), and even if you meant it, there really would be no shamed in having thought/hoped that the strikes would be cancelled in order not to disrupt the Euro championship and sadly being proved wrong. After all, many others probably thought exactly the same thing (although typically a little bit more cautiously than you did upthread perhaps).

A big ^ to San Gottardo for not falling into the trap of personal attacks despite the way you unnecessarily provoked him, because indeed, whether stimpy was right or wrong (in and by itself) is neither the topic of this thread nor a topic for an aviation forum.

The more important part is that either way, your more recent nit picking on conjugation seemed unnecessary to the extent that the Euro has now started and despite your latest assured forecast, the strike is very much on - if fortunately not massively followed. Despite the other prediction, there is also a serious risk of another strike hitting French (and other) families at the height of the holiday season. I'm sure that the people who have worked really hard all year on a low paid job to be able to offer a week of holiday to their children will appreciate the disruption by some people earning their monthly salary every week or possibly every few days. It is very symptomatic of current social relations in France - and indeed extremely sad - that some people will not hesitate to risk severely damaging the image of their country in the context of a major international event through the timing of a strike, and equally telling that they will not hesitate to precisely target the period that can ruin the holiday of as many common families as possible for a strike, regardless of the supposed legitimacy of their claims (I'd rather not comment on those but those who know me will probably not expect me to have a lot of sympathy with the strikers on that one). An ugly and rather pathetic move and one they should be ashamed of if they were intellectually honest at all.

brunos

I was playing golf with an AF pilot. He has some days off, so technically he is not on strike. I will skip some of the heated discussion we had. But he stated that SNPL has very different statistics and that AF was "lying".
He mentioned 70% of pilots on strike (same number given on TV). He said that that the actual number of cancellations was higher than what AF "scheduled" and that one objective of SNPL was to create some chaos by having heavy flight delays. He laughed about AF statistics and claimed that AF included all AF-coded flights even if the operating airline was not AF (i.e. DL or A5).

I have no personal statistics but guess the truth is somewhere in-between.

DernierVirage

I think we should all thank stimpy....watching him digging himself in deeper and deeper and getting more and more flustered is a welcome diversion from the problems of the strikes. Maybe we should give him special status on the forum.

brunos

As we say in Chinese "slippery like an eel" ....

And I am one of these "idiotic" foreigners who understand nothing about France, especially that there won't be any strike during Euro. But I notice that there still only is 1 out 4 RER B train to CDG (according to the official ADP site), lot of garbage in the streets of Paris, disruptions in AF schedules plus a few other minor inconveniences.

One can hardly argue that this has not severely damaged the Euro success and any hope for a French candidacy for the Olympic games. Of course, if success is measured by the French team winning the cup, then there is no damage.

Zembla

So. My five cents. I think this strike is unnecessary and ridiculous. Particularly the jealousy that is pointed towards KLM makes it pathetic. (KLM pilots work 37% more). Yes, imho the pilots on strike are a bunch of spoilt, lazy, pathetic losers, and in case this spirals down they must be the first to be fired so they can apply for a job with Emirates and experience what its really like to work hard. /rant

Now what boggles my mind a bit more than the stated above, is the tone in this thread towards some forum members. If I am not mistaking personal comments towards other members are not allowed. Even though we may not agree with the opinions and statements of other posters, and even though some of what they say may proof factually wrong, I think it is unnecessary to call them names.

orbitmic

^ Shhh if France lose early, they'll need all the excuses they can find so don't ruin their plan!

Anyway, French toxic strikes at CDG and beyond, English drunken hooligan thugs in Marseille, am I the only one wishing for less cliché behaviour all around us?

Zembla

+1 ^

NickB

+2

Henry III

^^

-- H

bodory

Well, they are quite used to handle strikes you know

Goldorak

For tomorrow (monday), AF plans to operate :
- 83% of long-hauls
- 86% of domestic flights
- 67% of medium haul flights

San Gottardo

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. Still I have the impression that they have gotten better at handling it and are prepared to spend substantial amounts of money to minimise the inconvenience of passengers to some extent.

----

Had an exchange with a member of the management team of SNPL.

The chap is super-bright, went to top notch elite school, gets many things really fast - but when it comes to the dynamics of the airline industry or more business-related things he lives in a complete dream world. For instance, he and his buddies are convinced that EK is a huge scam and that their planes are only 40% full. They are also convinced that "BA" (the notion of IAG didn't reach them yet) will fail because they have shrunk themselves to irrelevance. They really think that it was the hard work of AF employees that allowed the company to turn a "substantial" profit last fiscal year. Of course he holds very high certain principles like being paid properly to not compromise on safety.

As an aviation aficionado and hobby pilot I have highest respects for pilots, for the complexity of their job (it is really much more than a glorified bus driver in the air) and the responsibilities they carry. But those things left me completely baffled.

olivedel

Unfortunately, I have experienced the same kind of conversations. AF Pilots live in a whole different world, as you said.
Super smart, but does not even takes 5 minutes to drill down into AFKL's P&L to see that it is (almost) only because of oil prices that AFKL made some profit last year.
And when it comes to ME3, suddently, they spit out the same verbal diarrhea than AF management team: it is all because of subsidiaries and oil price.

ente_09

unlikely- vacation time

Goldorak

Same experience for me, but with a distinction between the "old ones" and the young pilots. This state of mind described by San Gottardo is much more prevalent in AF pilots 50 y.o. and older. The youngest pilots are much more aware of the competitive environment and they are strongly opposed to the suicidal behavior of their senior counterparts. So there's hope...