Jalinth

Duplicate post

yyzprincess

Agree Canadians are not going to pay dollars for premium product.

AC now has updated Hard Product. Invest in Soft product (not Krug),enhance the SE benefits and go after the International based Business travellers. The Aussies & Europeans & Asians. They will fill the Premium Cabins by paying and not UG.
Do a good marketing blitz. Offer multinational companies with bases in Australlia and Asia coporate discount on BIZ fares. Even with the discounts AC will make more money for the premium seats than the UG Canadians.
If Canadians do not want to pay, what does AC care, the Premium Cabins are flying full with paid internationally based AC FF.

yyzprincess

You have a point.AC will have to take into account the members who do not have access to premium cabin.
AC can go the SQ route. Put a dollar value. C$25K/$35K or C50K .
LHR-SYD is 8K.. 3 of those will meet the 25K requirement easy.
With LHR-SYD -LHR, can stop across Canada or USA as long as it is within the mileage.
Per segment it comes out cheaper.
For a Business traveller who has to make business trips to LHR, YYC, YEG, YWG, YVR, LAX, LGA and SYD it is a bargain.
Oneway T+ YYZ-YYC can run you 300.00 with taxes.
Of course AC will enhance the SE benefits. They are getting $$$$ for the SE status. It is a win win situation for the business traveller and AC.

Other *A carriers have Tier level based on premium flights LH HONS. SQ now $$. It has worked with them.
AC will still offer Elite = *Gold .Similiar to SQ *Gold.
AC should strongly consider 50K for Elite.And enhance the benefits.

As for saying SE are getting SE because they are paying for it, yes they are but how much?
I can get SE by flying 100% AC Metal for less that 8K and if willing to play aerolotto in Premium Cabin. If I route it wisely Fly 15K BIS on one SSWU.

So if I know I can do this, why in hell would I fly 3 RT in premium cabin for 24K qualify for SE and get the same benefits as another SE who qualifies on 8K with aerolotto in premium cabin.

So I do like the other SE, qualify by paying 8K .
With the 16K savings I buy F on SIN-SYD in 380. Or F on SIN-LHR on 77W and qualify for SQ PPS comp. of AC.^
Now if AC required spending of 25K for SE status, It would be a level field. I would not mind coughing up 24K for 3 long haul RT.

By the way before posters post one can get UA 1K by mileage run. Within UA 1K there is an hierarchy, I can assure you.
Believe me, I would not be ready to drop my $$ for UA premium fares if I was not aware of the hierarcy.

Jalinth

They do - within Canada WJ and various US airlines for transborder. Not as convenient as AC, but options do exist if AC decides to start smoking some of BCs top cash export.

Practically speaking, limiting status (or even top status) to just premium paxs doesn't make sense in a country where the remaining domestic doesn't even have international first and many airlines flying into/out of the country deliberately don't offer it. Requiring a minimum number of trips on AC metal might make sense (ala BA), but AC has already limited status for the "bottom line only" paxs by stripping out Tango fares from earning status miles. Maybe offering a AC metal only status bonus (or up the COS bonus on AC metal to 150%/175% for all international flights) might be a way to encourage premium paxs to fly AC when they have a choice of AC or other *A members.

yyzprincess

AC can take into account the members who do not have access to premium cabin.
AC can go the SQ route. Put a dollar value. C$25K/$35K or C50K .
There have been SE who qualify on flying Jazz, have posted they spend excess of C$50K. So the Dollar value based SE qualfication would take care of the Domestic Biz traveller with no premium cabin access.
The Internationally based SE or Canadian Based SE with access to Premium cabin can qualify by buying premium cabin fares.
LHR-SYD is 8K.. 3 of those will meet the 25K requirement easy.
With LHR-SYD -LHR, can stop across Canada or USA as long as it is within the mileage.
Per segment it comes out cheaper.
For a Business traveller who has to make business trips to LHR, YYC, YEG, YWG, YVR, LAX, LGA and SYD it is a bargain.
Oneway T+ YYZ-YYC can run you 300.00 with taxes.
Of course AC will enhance the SE benefits. They are getting $$$$ for the SE status. It is a win win situation for the business traveller and AC.

Other *A carriers have Tier level based on premium flights LH HONS. LH has domestic based BIZ travellers and the LH HONS seems to work for LH.

I will bet AC will go to $ value based SE.
It has to if it wants to reap returns from the investment it has made in acquiring 777 and updating the remaining fleet.
Why invest $$$$$$$ if your premium cabins are going to be filled with UG PAx or PAX who paid with aeropesoes.

respectable_man

M&M has a much much much larger catchment than AP. AC will fail it is continues to alienate its customer base, and methinks there are simply not enough high-end customers to make your scheme works.

yyzprincess

I think AC should give it a try. Enhance the SE benefits. What has it got to lose?
AC will still have a customer base. Look it has continued to cut benefits have SE & E abandon the program. Few maybe.

IF it goes to revenue based SE and enhances the SE benefit AC stands to gain a group of premium paying international SE which will keep the 777 premium cabins full with revenue paying premium pax and not Upgraders.
Yes, it may lose some SE because they do not want to cough up $$ for premium cabin.Those SE will be replaced by the International Premium Cabin buyers.

zorn

I'm on the Elite line right now and I'm going to suggest to them that they scrap the entire program altogether.

The only people in J will be the people who paid for it.

Everybody wins. You, me, the airline, win-win-win-win-win.

I'm effing brilliant.

shore9

AC must be moving towards getting more rev out of status pax, otherwise why put in new J seats, even though they are a far cry from other airlines current J product, they are a step in the right direction. That said, they will have to do a lot to take premium pax from SQ and other such airlines, and I doubt they will find many canadians suddenly paying for J. As well, they may want to start adding benefits to E and SE, as oppose to taking them away, it will take time to get new pax, but current pax can leave at the drop of a hat.

ac777

25K/30K, I have no problems but is it 25K on J/C/Z only? What extra benefits? I know I have paid w-a-y more than 25K to AC already but will AC lose a lot of customers? Probably not as anyone doing international travel has no significant choices unless they are in a big city. WJ and the charters do NOT provide a premium product so that is not a real competition. With gradually disappearing benefits, AC saying economic distress in the country won't hurt them( today's G&M),a very high load factor--the market does not support the need for AC to improve any benefits--so it's not going to happen. Interesting ideas though. ( Incidentally LHR-SYD maybe $8000 but YYC-SYD is $13,000)

Jalinth

Yet Another dup

respectable_man

Your last statement would be true if other airlines were not also constantly improving their products. Furthermore, your scheme is predicated on AC flying direct to where you want to go when in actuality AC has been removing destinations - no more direct to AMS, for instance. Your scheme would probably work with city pairs where AC has a huge proportion of the direct market, like YYZ-LHR. But if you are traveling, even infrequently, between say YYZ-PRG, then potential customers who will have the option to choose AF, KL, or whatever other airline suits their specific needs, including the possibilities of upgrades or whatever other perks the FFP of the competition offers.

My point is: as soon as you need ONE connection, then other carriers become viable alternatives. If you need more than one connection (travel, say, from YEG-FCO), then all kinds of other variables and other carriers come into play.

My opinion: the problem is not upgraders but how easy it is to upgrade to a high-value product without devalu-ing the product itself. It's a sophisticated balancing act, and it is very difficult to change something with everything else remaining the same. Sooooooooo... what are you willing to trade for fewer upgraders on international J?

seanthepilot

UA does have the UGS level. A combination of minimum spending and B, Y, C, F fares only to qualify. The recognition and beifits for UGS is far above those for 1K.

This whole idea is an interesting approach. We've long complianed about the deteriation of Aeroplan. If they build a GREAT program from the ground up, we could find a way to better the program.

However, if they INCREASE the miles needed, they surely have to award 100% MILES for EVERY FLIGHT. Wouldn't you agree?

This isn't that far fetched of an idea. If they could provide a GREAT benefits, who need the program. Better yet, if they redisigned the program rewarding truly 'worthy customers', they could even opt out of the Star Alliance.

That would keep people flying Air Canada, for sure!

acysb87

I would love to hear the conversation with you hammering AC brass

IMO,I give AC a lot of premium fare dollars.I buy latitude passes which are now almost Y fares in value.AC gets my money up front and gets 100% of my personal business.
I have long ago asked for a revenue based system.I am one who travels on RJs and Dash equipment where J cabins do not exist and where Jazz makes some good returns,IMO.

I believe I earn SE every year based on my revenue spend.Segments get me status again this year before mileage will.

yyzprincess

UA GS benefits are not far above 1K. All tanible benefits are the same. Better do some research. Couple of differences
1. On UG waitlist UGS scores above.
2. UGS can now UG an award ticket for member only.
You are aware that there is hierarcy within 1K. If you are way up there as 1K, same benefit is extend to you.
Twice my husband upgraded from award ticket. One YYZ-SFO-YYZ.He had CR1 that were expiring. 2. He is upgrading award using his expiring SWU.
Even in boarding UGS, 1K & F are in the same bag.
The reason, UGS is not totally revenue based. I am sure you are aware, UA Sales gives the corporate travel manager of large coporation number of UGS membership to give to the top management.
EMC for example gets 100 UGS memberships to give to its Top Management.
Cisco Australia gets good number of memberships.
One of my Australia Staff member's husband works for Cisco Australia. He is UGS. Only travels once a year to SFO for annual meeting. Total BIS 18K. Not even PE.Gets UGS every year.He hates flying.He drives to Perth for vacation.
It is a well known that Chambers does not allow Premium class travel. In fact, before Chambers acquired private jet,which was recent by the way, he himself flew in coach, longhaul. Of course he got comp UG from UA.
Because UGS is not true revenue base tier, 1K is put in the same bag.

As well UGS is not offered at all destinations and countries.

No need to give 100% miles.In fact if AC did that it will not be able to compete with likes of WS. % of flyers wanting 100% miles is not that big. There is bigger % of Ma & Pa Kettle who would rather have low fares. The Ma & Pa Kettle are the ones who fill the back of the bus.
Elite level should increase to come in line with most *A.

I beg to differ with you that AC will have to build a great program.SE program has the infrastructure. It just needs to get drop dead finishing touches put to it.
Once the program is set, AC should concentrate on building International membership starting with Australia & Asia, two areas where BIZ & Leisure Traveller is known to cough up premium fare revenue.
UA has a big Australian & Asian membership. Why because its 1K program is better than any Australian or Asian carriers have to offer.
AC has a golden opportunity to go after SQ's disgruntle PPS. Contrary to what posters post here that Canadian's do not pay for premium travel, there is a solid PPS membership in Canada. On my street alone there are 3 PPS. These members buy premium fares from SQ.

Why would AC want to leave *A. The back of the plane has to be filled for its international routes. Lets not forget, on international routes ,AC 's has to compete for coach passengers. Being a member of *A, it has access to *A members who fly coach.
Lets take one example Oasis. Ma & Pa Kettle from Canada who does not care about MLL, points, *Gold will go to Oasis. A HK based SQ/TG/OS/NH* Gold member has to fly to Canada. Will he or she take Oasis and forgo 10+ EQM for savings of couple of hundred and risk not requalifying for *G. Of course not. So the Canadian Mas & Pas Kettle AC lost to Oasis will be replaced by SQ/TG/OS/nh*G member
LH has HONS, SQ has PPS, did they leave *A. No. They need to fill the back of the BUS.
Having spoken to Phil Saunders VP Staralliance, I realize no airline can afford to leave the alliance including UA & SQ.I am willing to bet, SQ will be force to give award seats in F on its 380 once the fleet has few of the whalejets.