VoodooYYC

Mods - feel free to delete post. Reconsidered at request of other users.

Adam Smith

@VoodooYYC and @yeeg, thanks, good to know. Not a bad way to rack up AQM.

@yeeg, what about PSP?

You guys really should edit those posts though.

yeeg

Im sorry, i dont know what PSP is?

Adam Smith

Palm Springs.

BlondeBomber

I wouldn't expect this connection through YUL to last and not for the revelations here. It seems that these were not allowed in the past when there were multiple direct flights to various SW destinations but up until October 1 I had to route via YVR to get to PHX for example. YUL was also a possibility but I had never seen that before this year (but may not have looked too hard). Now that we are back to direct flights, YUL may disappear from being selectable.

If you are basing a purchase on this connection, make sure you confirm and take screenshots of allowed routings so if they change their mind, you might have recourse.

canadiancow

They wouldn't care. If they cease service to a destination, that's grounds for a complaint, but all they've done is said you can fly from A to B. You haven't even booked a ticket yet.

This is all a side-effect of the routing rules they use in the FP engine. At one point, it was very simple:

Step 1: Find the shortest duration for any route on your date of travel

If the options are:
YYC-PHX - 3 hours
YYC-YVR-PHX - 7 hours
YYC-YYZ-PHX - 12 hours

you end up with "3 hours" as your starting point.

Step 2: Perform some math. Your allowed travel duration is 2x + 1.5 (numbers may be a little off, but it was something close to this).

2*3 + 1.5 = 7.5

You are allowed 7.5 hours

Step 3: Present all "reasonable options" under that duration. Don't expect a 7-stop option when a 2-stop is available, but the actual routing doesn't need to adhere to typical fare rules.

YYC-PHX is allowed, since 3 < 7.5
YYC-YVR-PHX is allowed, since 7 < 7.5
YYC-YYZ-PHX is not allowed, since 12 > 7.5

This led to some interesting situations on itineraries like YQL-YQQ, since you had to do two stops, which naturally add significant travel time to an otherwise short itinerary. In that example, a random date shows 5:44 travel time. Meaning 12:58 is permitted. And that's enough time to route through YYZ.

With people actually booking and flying itineraries like that, they made some tweaks to the FP routing engine. They've tried to lock down things like that, but there have been some negative side effects. Such as me wanting to fly SFO-YMM, and having to leave at 1pm, even though I can leave at 4pm and arrive at the same time. Now I have to call in to get lower duration routings with the same number of stops.

Needless to say, every time you post one of these on FT, assume they're going to fix it. And "it won't last" ... maybe. But it only takes a slight schedule adjustment for the "stupid" routing to no longer be within the limits of the math without them making explicit changes.

But the Southwest Sun pass already has an explicit YYZ exclusion for connection points. More options can be added to that list fairly easily.

Bohemian1

Your explanation / analysis is really interesting.

I heard there were other 'interesting' quirks in the past too. I think you may have even demonstrated one during a mini-do visit to Steamworks. But over time I speculate those loopholes will get gradually eliminated.

Feast while you can, I guess.

mrtinvan

Departure Airport: YVR
Miles Needed (AQM): 16k
Segments Needed (AQS): 20
Dollars Needed (AQD): $0
Required Spend or Maximum Budget (choose one, and state the value): $1000
Available Travel Dates: Any before December 22nd.
Required Metal or Codeshares Okay: AC or Star Alliance
Route(s) You've Already Searched: YVR-HKG

Need to keep 50k status for 2020. No way i'd make 75k this year.
I'm currently at 34k AQM, 26 AQS and 10k AQD. I've got the 45k/45 perk for lower requalification.

I've got two guaranteed YVR-YYZ return trips booked for early December so thats 8k of miles, and I could fly out of YYZ as well. Bunch of small hops (YVR-YYC, YVR-YEG) are guaranteed as well.

Can also use CorporateRewards to book the flight for 5% off.

Adam Smith

I'm trying to understand how many AQM you actually need. Does your 34K include those YYZ, YYC, and YEG trips? If not, it seems to me like you may not need many miles at all. If you have the lower requalification at 45K, you're 11K short, minus 8K for 2x YVR-YYZ round trip, so down to 3K, and even if your "bunch of" short hops only includes one round trip to each of YYC and YEG, that's going to shave off another 1.8K (assuming booked in Flex), so you're down to 1.2K left...

Or does the 34K already factor in all of those upcoming trips?

mrtinvan

34k doesn't factor in the existing trips, since they aren't actually booked at this point - just scheduled. Everything is always in Flex.

Adam Smith

And is there any reason why you want to hit 50K rather than 45K?

If you only need 1.2K miles, you can probably scrape that together just by adding stops to your already planned trips, e.g. YVR-YEG-YYC is going to get you around 750 miles instead of 426 for the non-stop. Stop in YYC on the way to/from YEG, and a couple of stops between YYZ and YVR, and you can potentially close that gap with zero incremental spend, just some extra BIS time.

Or you can do a quick turn to YXE if you want something super easy, or maybe going to SFO on UA would be cheaper. But either of those would close that gap.

WaytoomuchEurope

Departure Airport: YVR
Miles Needed (AQM): 25k (for banked SE)
Segments Needed (AQS): N/A
Dollars Needed (AQD): N/A
Required Spend or Maximum Budget (choose one, and state the value): What’s it going to take!?
Available Travel Dates: Nov 26 - 30
Required Metal or Codeshares Okay: Codeshares fine
Route(s) You've Already Searched: I haven’t really. YVR-ICN-TPE-PVG is only 15k (in PY), YVR-SYD-YVR is only 15k... both of those take most of the available days. You geniuses got anything?

Edit: probably obvious from the routing I tried above but yes I have a Chinese visa. WIKI told me to state that and I forgot.

Adam Smith

What's your discomfort threshold? Northern South America can often be had cheap in J. Would take 2 trips, but that can be done in that window you have there - down on the 26th, return on the 27th, back down on the 28th, return on the 29th.

Probably about $3-4K, but all in J.

canadiancow

TPE in PY is very cheap and has no advance purchase requirement, so that has other benefits (like waiting for an upgrade window). Two of those round-trips would be about 30k, so if you have 104 eUps sitting around, I think that's the cheapest and best option. TYO has some similarly priced PY fares, but it's fewer miles and I think there's an advance purchase requirement.

But with 5 days and no metal/dollar requirement, there must be some cheap *A J fare.

From a brief look at https://www.google.com/flights#flt=Y...-350236099;t:e I would suggest looking at J fares to MCO/CUN/PTY.

YVRtoYYZ

I had YYZ-TPE down to $1560 in PY. So if you want to use some Aeroplan points to position to YYZ, then you can get 20.5K AQM out of it. YYZ-MEL in PY will also get you over 25.6K AQM but likely to be $$$.