Another new route: Announcing YYZ-DXB
Jan 17, 2015, 5:31 pm
#226
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Nothing here is sudden. AC said siphoning off traffic by allowing more EK frequencies would cause reduced point-to-point flying to/from Canada. If EK flew daily 380s would the profitable traffic exist for point-to-point YYZ-DEL, YOW-FRA/LHR, YEG-LHR? Well I don't know, but I doubt it. They sure wouldn't be doing YYZ-DXB.
I dont care where EK's traffic is going and whether they are making money or not. Thats their problem. But it would be nice if AC was not receiving a subsidy, and it was left up to the market to decide.
Jan 19, 2015, 9:47 am
#227
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
And what happens if the route proves successful? Will AC cancel it and walk away from profits to mislead the Feds the market is not viable? Perhaps their entrance in the market will lead to increased access for ME3?
IMO, It's unacceptable for Calin to publicly put YOWFRA on notice (on multiple occasions) if EK gets more access then proceed to seasonally cancel the route when EK was not granted any more access!?
Wished the Feds would have immediately allocated the dropped 4 weekly YOWFRA AC frequencies to ME3 to divy up into YYZ
Jan 19, 2015, 10:58 am
#228
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE MM, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton G,Nexus, Amex MR Plat,IHG Plat
Posts: 4,432
I mostly agree.
The AF/KL is a connection, so one needs to compare non-stop to non stop. If you use AF/KL, you need to bring in LH, LX and god forbid UA.
I still believe (as I have stated earlier) that there is a large portion of the population that does not understand that Gulf Carriers are top class, and their association with Arab (read Muslim) world will turn many people off of them. Its sad, but a reality today.
Corporate customers, 'ignorant-flyers' and *G status chasers (I choose this above your choice of the term 'loyalist', since I fall into that category and know that EK J is one of the best out there, but I'm not willing to give up the perks on all my other flights just to try it) should be enough to fit the bill.
On a quasi-related note, does anybody know how CASM compares between the 789 and A380. Not to mention the actual number of seats they need to sell at their specific CASM to break even?
The AF/KL is a connection, so one needs to compare non-stop to non stop. If you use AF/KL, you need to bring in LH, LX and god forbid UA.
I still believe (as I have stated earlier) that there is a large portion of the population that does not understand that Gulf Carriers are top class, and their association with Arab (read Muslim) world will turn many people off of them. Its sad, but a reality today.
Corporate customers, 'ignorant-flyers' and *G status chasers (I choose this above your choice of the term 'loyalist', since I fall into that category and know that EK J is one of the best out there, but I'm not willing to give up the perks on all my other flights just to try it) should be enough to fit the bill.
On a quasi-related note, does anybody know how CASM compares between the 789 and A380. Not to mention the actual number of seats they need to sell at their specific CASM to break even?
For the increased business traffic to DXB, AC will pick some of this whether Y or J and these will be corp customers with contracts with AC and employees chasing status.
For all the price conscious connecting pax, EK wins hands down because of their connections to a ton of major and secondary cities in India, gulf countries and even Africa. Not sure yet of what ACs plans are for connecting pax. Most Y customers flying that route are already very familiar with EK/EY etc and for the same price will fly them over AC because of all the other stuff - connections, IFE, meals, etc.
Currently EK has a seat sale from JFK for $800 for TWO passengers to MXP return.
Jan 19, 2015, 12:00 pm
#229
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
BTW, It's odd to see alternating posts between EK's incredible product/service and posts of their ultra low fare offerings.
Jan 19, 2015, 12:20 pm
#230
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE MM, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton G,Nexus, Amex MR Plat,IHG Plat
Posts: 4,432
True. But a very good deal for anyone willing to fly that route. And likely better hard product too. And its normally QR that has the crazy prices.
Jan 19, 2015, 12:31 pm
#231
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I guess its different than AC - sh!tty product and high prices
But we are talking about ultra low Y fares - EK's J fares are not ultra low.
Jan 20, 2015, 9:39 am
#232
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I applaud AC for setting the bar higher by now shutting down EK's plans for any expansion of frequency from YYZ, YYC and YVR! Bravo play there game right and AC will gain market share with the B-789 on that route feeding parts of India, and also a great around the world fare from YYZ-DXB-MUM-HKG-YVR-YYZ.
Also, you should not be applauding them, as this is an unfair market subsidy through restriction of competition (and higher fares, which should be avoided by anyone advocating for a more desirable free market.)
Jan 23, 2015, 3:01 pm
#233
Suspended
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Royal Air Maroc to join Star Alliance?
Mods - could not find a thread to post this
-----
In one of the threads (Dreamliner?) there were comments about people wanting AC to fly to Morocco.
Royal Air Maroc to join Star Alliance?
By David Flynn - Australian Business Traveller
PUBLISHED 21 JAN, 2015
http://www.ausbt.com.au/royal-air-ma...-star-alliance
-----
In one of the threads (Dreamliner?) there were comments about people wanting AC to fly to Morocco.
Royal Air Maroc to join Star Alliance?
By David Flynn - Australian Business Traveller
PUBLISHED 21 JAN, 2015
http://www.ausbt.com.au/royal-air-ma...-star-alliance
Jan 23, 2015, 3:07 pm
#234
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,727
Mods - could not find a thread to post this
-----
In one of the threads (Dreamliner?) there were comments about people wanting AC to fly to Morocco.
Royal Air Maroc to join Star Alliance?
By David Flynn - Australian Business Traveller
PUBLISHED 21 JAN, 2015
http://www.ausbt.com.au/royal-air-ma...-star-alliance
-----
In one of the threads (Dreamliner?) there were comments about people wanting AC to fly to Morocco.
Royal Air Maroc to join Star Alliance?
By David Flynn - Australian Business Traveller
PUBLISHED 21 JAN, 2015
http://www.ausbt.com.au/royal-air-ma...-star-alliance
They have a daily from YUL, I doubt AC needs to or wants any part of that route.
Jan 24, 2015, 8:13 am
#235
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,130
I have a 2006 document in which Air Canada proposed a partnership with Emirates. It called for a coordinated schedule between Canada and Dubai, starting with a daily Dubai-Toronto flight and expanding to other cities. It asked Emirates to operate its own aircraft on the routes. It even suggested flight times to maximize connections with Air Canada.
But Air Canada demanded 50 per cent of the profits, having made minimal investment and taken little or no risk.
Emirates declined. It continued patiently negotiating with Ottawa to upgrade its thrice-weekly Toronto flights to daily, and also fly to Calgary and Vancouver. Etihad also wanted daily flights to Toronto.
They were backed by the governments of Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia, as well as business and consumer groups
But Air Canada demanded 50 per cent of the profits, having made minimal investment and taken little or no risk.
Emirates declined. It continued patiently negotiating with Ottawa to upgrade its thrice-weekly Toronto flights to daily, and also fly to Calgary and Vancouver. Etihad also wanted daily flights to Toronto.
They were backed by the governments of Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia, as well as business and consumer groups
There was enough traffic till there wasn't. If it helps, the number of Canadians living in the UAE has increased from 27,000 to 40,000 over the past 4 years, so it begs the question - does one make decisions based on how much traffic there is today, or how much potential there is in the market? Governments in other countries tend to take a pounding when they make decisions based on the former rather than the latter.
Nothing here is sudden. AC said siphoning off traffic by allowing more EK frequencies would cause reduced point-to-point flying to/from Canada. If EK flew daily 380s would the profitable traffic exist for point-to-point YYZ-DEL, YOW-FRA/LHR, YEG-LHR? Well I don't know, but I doubt it. They sure wouldn't be doing YYZ-DXB.
But that aside, many here (and AC itself) argued that a daily flight would spell the death knell for YEG-LHR and YOW-FRA (Calin himself, in this case). Well, how are those routes doing now? YOW-FRA is apparently unsustainable if the folk flying it now choose the YYZ-DXB flight instead.
To be clear, EK is not, in fact, flying daily. Despite this, YOW-FRA and YEG-LHR are ...well, yeah. As for YYZ-DEL, I dare suggest that EK's daily flights wouldn't have changed much. They're not all that reliant on DEL per se (their strength as always been their network to tier 2 South Asian cities - which aren't particularly well served through DEL). The real threat to point to point YYZ-DEL are the 9Ws, BAs, AF's, KLs, TKs etc, all of which have the ability to price aggressively.
Will AC succeed on this route? I don't know. I suspect it will depend on which way the traffic is flowing. If its DXB->Canada, EK will have home court advantage. If its Canada->DXB, AC should (although as a new entrant, its not going to appeal necessarily to the non FF crowd who are familiar with EK). If the goal is to pick up US traffic, it really depends on how EK responds - they're not shy about entering new markets.
Jan 24, 2015, 1:33 pm
#236
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Jan 24, 2015, 2:55 pm
#237
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,727
Will AC succeed on this route? I don't know. I suspect it will depend on which way the traffic is flowing. If its DXB->Canada, EK will have home court advantage. If its Canada->DXB, AC should (although as a new entrant, its not going to appeal necessarily to the non FF crowd who are familiar with EK). If the goal is to pick up US traffic, it really depends on how EK responds - they're not shy about entering new markets.
Breath of fresh air in this thread.
Feb 11, 2015, 2:41 pm
#238
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Mississauga Ontario
Posts: 4,106
It's looks 90% certain I've got business in Abu Dhabi in November, and so the option of several airlines presents itself.
I'm currently SE, but wavering. (Lots of time to figure things out). My contract will cover biz-class x 2
Questions:
-- if AC doesn't deploy 787 in November as planned, they will run the route, right? Swap in a 777 likely, since 767 won't make it? They won't cancel, correct?
-- if loyalty doesn't matter, I can do YYZ-AUH direct on Etihad ... or I could do Emirates to Dubai (and car service from there).
-- bringing my wife (no girlfriend, LOL; other threads, inside joke etc) and so thinking of that too.
Suggestions?
I'm currently SE, but wavering. (Lots of time to figure things out). My contract will cover biz-class x 2
Questions:
-- if AC doesn't deploy 787 in November as planned, they will run the route, right? Swap in a 777 likely, since 767 won't make it? They won't cancel, correct?
-- if loyalty doesn't matter, I can do YYZ-AUH direct on Etihad ... or I could do Emirates to Dubai (and car service from there).
-- bringing my wife (no girlfriend, LOL; other threads, inside joke etc) and so thinking of that too.
Suggestions?
Feb 11, 2015, 3:23 pm
#239
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Never home.
Posts: 2,971
It's looks 90% certain I've got business in Abu Dhabi in November, and so the option of several airlines presents itself.
I'm currently SE, but wavering. (Lots of time to figure things out). My contract will cover biz-class x 2
Questions:
-- if AC doesn't deploy 787 in November as planned, they will run the route, right? Swap in a 777 likely, since 767 won't make it? They won't cancel, correct?
-- if loyalty doesn't matter, I can do YYZ-AUH direct on Etihad ... or I could do Emirates to Dubai (and car service from there).
-- bringing my wife (no girlfriend, LOL; other threads, inside joke etc) and so thinking of that too.
Suggestions?
I'm currently SE, but wavering. (Lots of time to figure things out). My contract will cover biz-class x 2
Questions:
-- if AC doesn't deploy 787 in November as planned, they will run the route, right? Swap in a 777 likely, since 767 won't make it? They won't cancel, correct?
-- if loyalty doesn't matter, I can do YYZ-AUH direct on Etihad ... or I could do Emirates to Dubai (and car service from there).
-- bringing my wife (no girlfriend, LOL; other threads, inside joke etc) and so thinking of that too.
Suggestions?