Major United Policy Changes Announced
#136
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Crystal City, VA
Programs: United Mileage Plus 1K 2 MM, HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 2,627
Probably not. There are a lot of us on this board that would bite at $800-$1000. I have a hard time imaging the bidding getting up above $2500...
But I guess we could look at the DL experience, they offer up to $9950... not sure the highest they've paid out.
But I guess we could look at the DL experience, they offer up to $9950... not sure the highest they've paid out.
#137
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Denver
Posts: 451
Well I suppose now the situation will be that they delay or cancel the flight that the crew would be going to work. Though keep in mind, the 60 minute rule only applies when there are no open seats on the flight. If there are open seats to book the crew into, there is no time restriction. The number of times a crew gets scheduled to deadhead on a flight that last minute was a rare occurrence as it is, I imagine.
#138
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,782
I remember someone taking an offer from DL at ATL a few weeks ago for $2,000. It was that crazy weather time in ATL. The bump was from Friday to Monday
#139
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: DL PM, MR Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,130
It still comes down entirely to how toxic the culture is and what is being done to fix the "customers are the enemy" mindset (nothing I can see from this letter is addressing that).
When I took a VDB in Austin earlier this week, DL gave me a hotel for free without blinking. On the hotel shuttle the next day I was chatting with the driver and she told me that UA and AA are notorious for stiffing their customers on the hotel but that she finds DL and WN consistently pay for them.
One observation from one driver at an AUS Airport Hotel (which is positioned to get a lot of these types of guests but from talking had no obvious skin in the game) but I think points to the bigger issue here. Until the "by the book, customer is the enemy" culture of UA is changed, nothing will change. Period. End of story.
When I took a VDB in Austin earlier this week, DL gave me a hotel for free without blinking. On the hotel shuttle the next day I was chatting with the driver and she told me that UA and AA are notorious for stiffing their customers on the hotel but that she finds DL and WN consistently pay for them.
One observation from one driver at an AUS Airport Hotel (which is positioned to get a lot of these types of guests but from talking had no obvious skin in the game) but I think points to the bigger issue here. Until the "by the book, customer is the enemy" culture of UA is changed, nothing will change. Period. End of story.
#140
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 506
Does anyone really not believe that, had United paid for a hotel + $2000 cash, there would have been no takers? Or what about a hotel and two free iPads (which is actually worth less than $2000 cash)? Part of the problem is that they offer vouchers, which are useless to infrequent flyers. They need to write people a check, right then and there. Or give out Visa/Amex gift cards.
#141
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Potomac MD
Programs: UA MP 1K
Posts: 7,182
So a DYKWIA decides they deserve to sit in your F or E+ or exit row seat and refuses to move. UA can ask them to move but they refuse. They also cannot call the cops because there is no "safety or security" issue. You are now left going to the back.
Can't find the thread. I recall this actually happened to someone years ago where some lady helped herself to his F seat and he had to sit in the back. He chose not to delay the flight and just sit in the back. The DYKWIA always wins while the rest of us have to suffer.
Can't find the thread. I recall this actually happened to someone years ago where some lady helped herself to his F seat and he had to sit in the back. He chose not to delay the flight and just sit in the back. The DYKWIA always wins while the rest of us have to suffer.
#142
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NYC/Northern NJ
Programs: 1K - UAL, Platinum DL, Marriott, Hilton, SPG
Posts: 1,815
I think some of you folks miss the point.
10K is allow the ground crew to raise the amount. They are NOT giving $7000 for a ticket to FL.
Assuming it is not Christmas or freak weather outage (like hurricane knocks out the entire East Coast) - there will always be a college student or free spirit flyer who will take the next day flight and $1000.
Business travel route on a Monday or Thursday PM not so much but let us not be crazy - a GA is not going to increase an amount for volunteer from 800 to 8000 in one offer.
It is more a punk move by United to match DL (yet again) vs. they anticipate ever paying out $10,000 for one passenger seat.
10K is allow the ground crew to raise the amount. They are NOT giving $7000 for a ticket to FL.
Assuming it is not Christmas or freak weather outage (like hurricane knocks out the entire East Coast) - there will always be a college student or free spirit flyer who will take the next day flight and $1000.
Business travel route on a Monday or Thursday PM not so much but let us not be crazy - a GA is not going to increase an amount for volunteer from 800 to 8000 in one offer.
It is more a punk move by United to match DL (yet again) vs. they anticipate ever paying out $10,000 for one passenger seat.
#143
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Potomac MD
Programs: UA MP 1K
Posts: 7,182
2. Provide adequate staffing when flights get cancelled or diverted. Why do I keep seeing long lines whenever I walk by a rebooking counter late in the evening? This reflects staffing costs as being more important than making customers wait for hours...
4. Stop your employees from palming off anyone who comes for help. Gate agent to rebooking counter. Rebooking counter to call the 800 number so and so forth.
4. Stop your employees from palming off anyone who comes for help. Gate agent to rebooking counter. Rebooking counter to call the 800 number so and so forth.
My return flight 2 days later was delayed by 30 minutes. You only knew this if you looked at the UA app.
Is there not a better way to handle this? The clear impression is that UA did not give a damn about its passengers.
#144
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Body in Downtown YYZ, heart and mind elsewhere
Programs: UA 50K, refugee from AC E50K, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 5,132
It would seem that concurrent with this "do the right thing" announcement from UA, they have also settled with Dr. Dao for "an undisclosed amount".
I think it's fair to assume the "undisclosed amount" was somewhat more than $800.
I think it's fair to assume the "undisclosed amount" was somewhat more than $800.
#145
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,722
The "In the moment" resolution/compensation sounds like a potential plus
9. United will empower employees to resolve customer service issues in the moment.
Rolling out later this year, United will launch a new "in the moment" app for our employees to handle customer issues. This will enable flight attendants (by July) and gate agents (later this year) to compensate customers proactively (with mileage, credit for future flights or other forms of compensation) when a disservice occurs.
Also, nice to see some common sense applied to overbooking of the "last flight of the day"
8. United will reduce its amount of overbooking.
United has evaluated its overbooking policy. As a result, adjustments have been made to reduce overbookings on flights that historically have experienced lower volunteer rates, particularly flights on smaller aircraft and the last flights of the day to a particular destination.
9. United will empower employees to resolve customer service issues in the moment.
Rolling out later this year, United will launch a new "in the moment" app for our employees to handle customer issues. This will enable flight attendants (by July) and gate agents (later this year) to compensate customers proactively (with mileage, credit for future flights or other forms of compensation) when a disservice occurs.
Also, nice to see some common sense applied to overbooking of the "last flight of the day"
8. United will reduce its amount of overbooking.
United has evaluated its overbooking policy. As a result, adjustments have been made to reduce overbookings on flights that historically have experienced lower volunteer rates, particularly flights on smaller aircraft and the last flights of the day to a particular destination.
As for overbooking, I may be in the minority but I don't think it needs to be eliminated, particularly as I am one who often makes last minute itinerary changes and sometimes to take earlier flights. The issue is not so much IDB but rather the paltry inadequate compensation for VDB and IDB and the use of force to eject a passenger for a contract dispute. I am thinking we won't be seeing these problems anymore, assuming the FAs and GAs stop lying about "safety" issues with passengers who do not pose a threat to anyone.
Hopefully the "in the moment" App will work better than .bomb
#146
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,620
I was talking with my buddy who is a Global Service and he does feel that some UNITED employees view the customer as the problem.
That is hard to change, at my hospital there are a few nurses who view the patient as the problem and are generally surly and unhelpful, I unfortunately had to deal with one of these nurses as she was floated to the ER when one of our regulars went out for a prolonged period of time.
She would bark at the patients, their families, the Docs, anybody who got in her face and was not 100% complaiant. She called security at least 5x in day because she claimed patients and one case, the patient's family were being combative with her.
I spoke to the Nursing Manager about her and she was handled, but that is 2-3 nurses, what is Mr. Munoz supposed to do with maybe IDK 100 - 200 bad employees system wide?
That is one of the biggest issues IMHO UNITED has to deal with it and it is not a new issue, a bad employee who viewed the customer as the issue soured me on UNITED years ago.
I applaud UNITED for at least talking about change and making a list of changes, but the proof is in the pudding and without addressing bad employees, all the changes in the world may not make a difference.
That is hard to change, at my hospital there are a few nurses who view the patient as the problem and are generally surly and unhelpful, I unfortunately had to deal with one of these nurses as she was floated to the ER when one of our regulars went out for a prolonged period of time.
She would bark at the patients, their families, the Docs, anybody who got in her face and was not 100% complaiant. She called security at least 5x in day because she claimed patients and one case, the patient's family were being combative with her.
I spoke to the Nursing Manager about her and she was handled, but that is 2-3 nurses, what is Mr. Munoz supposed to do with maybe IDK 100 - 200 bad employees system wide?
That is one of the biggest issues IMHO UNITED has to deal with it and it is not a new issue, a bad employee who viewed the customer as the issue soured me on UNITED years ago.
I applaud UNITED for at least talking about change and making a list of changes, but the proof is in the pudding and without addressing bad employees, all the changes in the world may not make a difference.
#147
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SFO/SJC
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 14,890
Outside of the safety/security bucket, how about customer service issues, specifically a seat poacher - let's say someone plunks themselves into my First Class seat and refuses to leave, confident that no one can force them - what happens at this point? Do I get 10,000 if I refuse to take another seat in coach or will someone eject the poacher from the seat, or can I be legally indemnified for reaching over and yanking the poacher from my seat by their hair and tossing them into the aisle so I can sit down?
Another major issue not addressed by the announcement - and this is key - who is going to force a culture change with those front line employees who feel no need or interest in participating in a service environment and just do the absolute minimum or act in a hostile way towards customers? In the absence of a culture change or a policy that provides an absolute baseline for customer service, new tools will not offer much benefit when you're stuck with an agent who doesn't give a damn, or worse, relishes with joy at your suffering.
For example, if UA wants to focus on values, it needs to lead from the top down first, provide CS training, and give front-line employees a certain amount of time to serve customers in this way. Give them, say 6 weeks. Then implement a system to fire those who don't follow on with these values . How would that work? For example, if a GA or gets 3 CS-related complaints in X months, they get fired.
Captain always has discretion/authority to remove a passenger from the aircraft if they feel the need for it. I suspect this kind of situation of refusing to adhere to crew instructions is a good example of where a captain can use their authority.
I never yell or raise my voice, speak calmly and usually with a smile, and try to give them the benefit of the doubt. That, and asking what I think are fairly reasonable request, and I seem to be treated pretty well the strong majority fo the time. It doesn't mean they can always say yes, but they are usually nice about it.
Or maybe my UA interactions are different than everyone else's - for some unknown reason.
As far as I know, It is not binding you can change your mind at the airport but presumably if you enter it, you are willing to at least be considered. Of course as noted above you can negotiate higher than the 800 maximum at the gate if the right situation presents itself.
Do you think the gate agents in, say Sacremento, know that Louisville is near Lexington? Or that if they fly a passenger into Lexington, who do they call to get that customer ground transportation into Louisville?
Makes total sense to have a specialized department for out-of-the-box solutions. Sure, many things should be able to be handled by the gate agents themselves, but I think it smart to have backup for those tail events.
Makes total sense to have a specialized department for out-of-the-box solutions. Sure, many things should be able to be handled by the gate agents themselves, but I think it smart to have backup for those tail events.
It's not that difficult.
IIRC, UA is apparently signed on with the IBM/Apple partnership that develops various apps for air carriers for CS/operations. I'd guess they are the ones UA is working with to create this.
#148
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: USA
Programs: UA Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,195
As far as the specific scenario at hand, I am very sympathetic with Dr. Dao as far as being involuntarily deboarded (as opposed to being denied boarding in the first place). I completely agree that United could have done more to try to make it voluntary deboarding and their new procedures should go a long way toward preventing anything like this in the future.
I would be utterly on his side if he had deboarded peacefully and then raised a PR (as opposed to physical) ruckus over the situation but where I lose sympathy is on the injury score. He caused the injuries himself AND he was disrupting take-off sequence for countless others. Neither airline nor the security officers involved could have known he suffered from PTSD and I doubt any of them expected him to go ballistic the way he did.
United HAS to change their policies because of the reality of the PR situation. I think they should have had these kinds of policies in the first place but I also think they don't deserve the black eye they're getting from this particular situation (then again, I wasn't there).
#149
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,457
I think the instances where they have to go anywhere near close to $10K will be extremely few and far between but average compensation will go up because more people will hold out hoping for a higher offer so there's probably a huge overall cost.
As far as the specific scenario at hand, I am very sympathetic with Dr. Dao as far as being involuntarily deboarded (as opposed to being denied boarding in the first place). I completely agree that United could have done more to try to make it voluntary deboarding and their new procedures should go a long way toward preventing anything like this in the future.
I would be utterly on his side if he had deboarded peacefully and then raised a PR (as opposed to physical) ruckus over the situation but where I lose sympathy is on the injury score. He caused the injuries himself AND he was disrupting take-off sequence for countless others. Neither airline nor the security officers involved could have known he suffered from PTSD and I doubt any of them expected him to go ballistic the way he did.
United HAS to change their policies because of the reality of the PR situation. I think they should have had these kinds of policies in the first place but I also think they don't deserve the black eye they're getting from this particular situation (then again, I wasn't there).
As far as the specific scenario at hand, I am very sympathetic with Dr. Dao as far as being involuntarily deboarded (as opposed to being denied boarding in the first place). I completely agree that United could have done more to try to make it voluntary deboarding and their new procedures should go a long way toward preventing anything like this in the future.
I would be utterly on his side if he had deboarded peacefully and then raised a PR (as opposed to physical) ruckus over the situation but where I lose sympathy is on the injury score. He caused the injuries himself AND he was disrupting take-off sequence for countless others. Neither airline nor the security officers involved could have known he suffered from PTSD and I doubt any of them expected him to go ballistic the way he did.
United HAS to change their policies because of the reality of the PR situation. I think they should have had these kinds of policies in the first place but I also think they don't deserve the black eye they're getting from this particular situation (then again, I wasn't there).
Dao "took a bullet" for all non status flyers who are subject to the whims of the airlines in ways which would drive status flyers apoplectic at even the hint of such disrespect.
#150
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Raddison Platinum, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 5,271
Again, I'd argue this is a safety issue. Once someone has proven they aren't interested in listening to the flight crew, why would one assume they would if there is an issue in the air. Or that they would put their phone into airplane mode on departure, etc.
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This was one of my thoughts after the incident. UA was trying to be proactive and provide a solution that impacted the least number of people. Should be a win-win. If the crew can't get to where they need to be, then that means a flight of 50, 70, 150, or whatever people needs to be canceled or delayed. Why is this better?
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This was one of my thoughts after the incident. UA was trying to be proactive and provide a solution that impacted the least number of people. Should be a win-win. If the crew can't get to where they need to be, then that means a flight of 50, 70, 150, or whatever people needs to be canceled or delayed. Why is this better?
I was being sarcastic. It is not better. I was stating their new changes if not overbooking higher VDB and making it harder for crew to get to where they need to go (as a result of Dao and others like him) will inconvenience many more people through higher ticket prices and more delays/cancellations. Higher since this will be felt by everyone it won't get picked up my twitter or the news media whereas one person can yell loud enough to ruin it for everyone.