SFO777

Yet another annoying cancellation.

On Wednesday evening, APA-LAX on a Challenger 300 popped up on the app for a Thursday 6pm departure.
It was still there yesterday morning when I booked 4 seats, paying an extra $650 for the 4th seat.

Within 30 minutes after confirming the pax details, I received this text "Unfortunately, KAPA-KLAX reservation was not confirmed. We apologize for any inconvenience". When I pressed, I got "The operator had a schedule change and is no longer able to offer the empty leg". A legitimate last minute cancellation I can accept but this smelled like XOJET cancelled long before I "booked" and the leg was still on the app for a while despite it no longer being available.

I reached out to my rep for an explanation and got this not very reassuring explanation... "Not sure the situation but they are only guaranteed within 5 hours anything prior to that you are just indicating interest."

oenophilist

Had you already confirmed the invoice? As I have experienced, nothing is confirmed until you confirm the invoice. The operators are always moving flights around until the last minute, and can do so until they book the empty leg with Jetsmarter.

SFO777

No invoice sent or confirmed. Yeah, I realize that nothing is confirmed even if I confirm the invoice. Inside 5 hours, it's supposed to be guaranteed, but even that doesn't necessarily mean it's firm.

This just happens way to often with me. You can't reliably plan anything and most certainly would only try booking an outbound and wouldn't even think of repositioning for something as iffy as this. My biggest complaint is that there seems to be a disconnect between JetSmarter and operators like XOJET. APA-LAX was on the app for 15 hours. I booked and within 30 minutes was told "sorry, not available". They need to do a better job of pulling flights that are going to happen.

oenophilist

I guess I take a different approach. The flights in the app do not show final availability, but rather preliminary availability. The information is provided by the operator. If the operator confirms immediately, great! If not, then it is wait-and-see. Of the flights that I've taken, the vast majority have been confirmed immediately. Two have been wait-and-see, and one was cancelled outright at the last minute after confirmation due to a mechanical issue (or so I was told).

Thus far, I must admit, I have found tremendous value in JetSmarter. I was just reviewing the flights that I've taken, and it has been fantastic.

gooseman13

But if the operator knows they no longer have the flight available, shouldn't it be taken off of the app at that point in time? I just went through the same thing on stubhub with event tickets, and it's really annoying (not totally apples to apples, I understand).

oenophilist

It is more complicated than that. This isn't big business for operators. Operators don't make money on empty legs, they make money on charters. Selling empty legs are an attempt to lower the loss on the leg.

If you have a network of planes, repositioning can be a logistical nightmare, especially if many of your charters are last minute. Which means they are constantly changing which planes to reposition where. Once you sell the empty leg, however, you can't change that.

For example, I was going to get an empty leg, but the operator simply didn't know whether they needed to reposition the plane to Vienna or Basel. They posted Vienna on the app, but it wasn't confirmed for several hours while they figured out where the plane was going. In this case, they have a choice: post nothing or post their best guess. I would prefer that they post their best guess, even though it may not be confirmed immediately.

bentleyjackson

Just saw this quick JetSmarter review on Yahoo where there is a promo code for flight credit at the end, https://www.yahoo.com/tech/uber-priv...190247298.html

Been reading this thread and some other ones for a while. Has anyone had any other experiences on the shuttle flights they can talk about? Has anybody flown NY to SF? Those sometimes look like they aren't as full as the NY to LA routes.

backdoc

I'm looking at the schedule right now and tomorrow's flight 4/7/16 is full, Sunday's flight is full, and 4/14/16 has 4/12 seats available, and Sunday 4/17/16 has 8/12 seats available. I'm pretty sure by the time Thursday rolls around it'll be sold out.

Steve

oenophilist

As of the moment, the European shuttle legs are not very full. I'm wondering if that will change.

backdoc

They will probably keep them as I believe that those are their anchor for worldwide expansion.

I can't wait for NYC-London.

That will be the bridge that makes JetSmarter AMAZING.

Kagehitokiri

theyve announced NYC-LON ? they could even try connecting at both ends

though commercial pax can get VIP service at LGW, for way less than at LHR

jalpajalpa

Empty legs... Every charter brokerage out there has access to the empty legs. The actual plane operators are doing everything in their power to fill them! There isn't some secret stash that JetSmarter has... Markets are efficient and those plane operators are talking to people around the country/world working to fill them. I spoke to my jet broker and he gave me a list of all the empty legs out there at any given moment. He also showed me emails written by sales guys from JetSmarter looking for flights. Humans using keyboards. Not super cool algorithms and tech. There is no magic, just magical marketing. Maybe it might be easier to use an app to send a request, but I can text my broker and he responds in a few minutes. I also know the year, make and model of the plane along with the safety rating. I also don't pay an initiation fee and membership fee! What a joke.

People hangs their hopes on buying seats. This is a fishing expedition. They will cancel when they cannot find a plane that makes sense to them. There is no harm in them going fishing for passengers because if they cannot find a plane to make money they just cancel. All the while you keep paying that membership fee. This is a bottom feeding business plan. Almost like a Ponzi scheme. Just get as many people paying that membership fee as you can.

Sharing a private jet is not flying private, it is worse than commercial. It is a flying bus. Anyone who has flown regularly on various sized planes would never share it with strangers... Who wants to knock knees with a stranger while you are facing them?!?! Who sits on the couch while others get a chair? What happens when you are with your wife and there are six 30 year old finance guys half drunk ready to party? I don't understand the concept. If you are doing this to save time and be efficient, then don't you want to leave when you want to leave, not when the scheduled flight leaves???

They advertise, advertise, market, and give out free legs to "celebrities" who post on instagram and twitter. Smoke and mirrors. You guys do what you want, but none of this makes sense to me.

oenophilist

Tell us how you really feel!

As a six month JetSmarter member, I have to say that I disagree with 95% of your post. It sounds more like a rant to me. The only thing that I agree with is that you can purchase empty legs on the open market. In fact, I monitor empty leg sales in order to help predict what is going to show up on JetSmarter. As to sharing a private jet over commercial, I'll take the private jet share anytime!

Kagehitokiri

memberships = free empty legs, free seats
some memberships are actually operators

do definitely need more companies/offerings in this space

who cares about plane, its to avoid commercial terminals

seriously, as long as its not from a commercial terminal

oenophilist

FWIW, I added a wiki to this thread to consolidate information about JetSmarter.