Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm
Last edit by: fti
People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!
Jul 31, 2014, 2:18 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
... and the star of those has to be:
while another complainant states that he was planning a trip to Yangon in relation to a wedding taking palace in Thailand, and was visiting relatives in Montréal.
Presumably the first-clas RGN Yxx fare just fell out of a Kayak enquiry. Serendipity!
while another complainant states that he was planning a trip to Yangon in relation to a wedding taking palace in Thailand, and was visiting relatives in Montréal.
Presumably the first-clas RGN Yxx fare just fell out of a Kayak enquiry. Serendipity!
Jul 31, 2014, 8:05 am
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
In my CTA submission I gave examples of having purchased and flown (between my parents and I) no less 10 of these RGN fares across rounds one and three. This included a ticket in round three with an identical fare basis to the ones IB cancelled, with an IB-coded/BA-operated TAtl segment, that I flew, without issue.
I find them lying/omitting facts in their conclusion a bit more worrying.
Jul 31, 2014, 11:27 am
Join Date: Apr 2007
Programs: QF, VA, AC, Hyatt, Marriott
Posts: 3,784
If you're impacted by the ruling and are considering further action, please send me a PM.
Jul 31, 2014, 4:54 pm
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,406
interesting issue... I'm aware of one such example, an applicant who claimed they contacted Swiss to select seats and confirm the fare. The CTA didn't seem to address that issue. Were there others you were specifically thinking of?
Overall however, the CTA seems to be treading a fine line. Names of the applicants are public, and it is clear that some are lying, or at best, appear unbelievable from their line of argument. The CTA is avoided using those express labels.
Do we want the CTA to address every bad or tenuous argument specifically? perhaps with a response of 'the passenger is being dishonest?', and have that on the public record?
Overall however, the CTA seems to be treading a fine line. Names of the applicants are public, and it is clear that some are lying, or at best, appear unbelievable from their line of argument. The CTA is avoided using those express labels.
Do we want the CTA to address every bad or tenuous argument specifically? perhaps with a response of 'the passenger is being dishonest?', and have that on the public record?
Jul 31, 2014, 5:34 pm
Join Date: Apr 2007
Programs: QF, VA, AC, Hyatt, Marriott
Posts: 3,784
interesting issue... I'm aware of one such example, an applicant who claimed they contacted Swiss to select seats and confirm the fare. The CTA didn't seem to address that issue. Were there others you were specifically thinking of?
Overall however, the CTA seems to be treading a fine line. Names of the applicants are public, and it is clear that some are lying, or at best, appear unbelievable from their line of argument. The CTA is avoided using those express labels.
Do we want the CTA to address every bad or tenuous argument specifically? perhaps with a response of 'the passenger is being dishonest?', and have that on the public record?
Overall however, the CTA seems to be treading a fine line. Names of the applicants are public, and it is clear that some are lying, or at best, appear unbelievable from their line of argument. The CTA is avoided using those express labels.
Do we want the CTA to address every bad or tenuous argument specifically? perhaps with a response of 'the passenger is being dishonest?', and have that on the public record?
Aug 1, 2014, 12:51 am
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Laguna Beach CA
Programs: AA EXP/4MM UA 1MM, HY Global, Bon Lft Plat, HH Dia
Posts: 720
Anyone with anything interesting to report back, i.e. voluntary or involuntary changes, reroutes or other adventures in pursuing these trips?
Mine have been uneventful. No changes possible online without enormous difference in fare even after trip has commenced. Anyone with other experiences?
Thanks
Mine have been uneventful. No changes possible online without enormous difference in fare even after trip has commenced. Anyone with other experiences?
Thanks
Aug 1, 2014, 5:26 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2005
Programs: BA Gold, A3 Gold, FB Gold, Bonvoy Titanium / LTP, Accor Plat
Posts: 13,892
Apart from the very slippery slope issue of whether pax "ought to have known," did anyone here on FT really not know? Say what you want, but I suggest that if we're all being completely intellectually honest, the answer would have to be no. We all knew. That doesn't mean that airlines shouldn't be held to the letter of the law, just as we are. But we knew.
As I said upthread, I've flown better deals, and ones that were intentionally marketed, than this one. The idea that it was obviously a mistake because it was too good to be true just doesn't wash for me.
It is clear something odd was going on ex-RGN. But there have been a spate of cheap deals ex-CMB and before that ex-ICN (when the won tanked) too.
I didn't learn about ex-RGN having cheap deals from Flyertalk (a friend told me about them in person). Since wifey had always wanted to go to Myanmar, and we were due in North America for Christmas, the flight fit our plans perfectly. Would I have looked ex-RGN without a push? No, but I might not have looked for BA TATL flights ex-EU without a push either, or Dubai-London on Royal Brunei or Oman Air, etc. etc. This board is full of "deals" and I would expect 95%+ of them are unquestionably legitimate.
This still feels like a very slippery ruling to me. YMMV.
Aug 1, 2014, 5:30 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,406
Will be interesting to see how this case progresses if anyone takes it to appeal.
The one issue which is largely overlooked is the request for anyone to 'not call the airline'.
If there were no concerns about the legitimacy of this fare, why are some so keen not to have others calling to find out if it is ok to buy it?
The one issue which is largely overlooked is the request for anyone to 'not call the airline'.
If there were no concerns about the legitimacy of this fare, why are some so keen not to have others calling to find out if it is ok to buy it?
Aug 1, 2014, 5:46 am
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: EWR, NJ
Programs: UA 2 MM, UA 1K
Posts: 663
Aug 1, 2014, 8:40 am
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
Before ticketing my TA sent the reservation to LX for verification. Came positive. LX didn't care about that, nor did the CTA (and they didn't as much as "address the issue" as outright lie about no one contacting LX).
Aug 1, 2014, 8:47 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
Almost all of them attempt to cite examples of "kosher" fares in the RGN ball park. All miss the ballpark by a pretty wide margin. We are talking first-class, half-way round the world for peanuts: not business-class TATL for USD2000 or so.
So it would be great if you have the patience to post the genuine, non-mistake fares you have used or seen which match the Rangooners. But first-class, not "premium" - and looooong haul on top-rated carriers.
Aug 1, 2014, 9:38 am
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 179
Anyone with anything interesting to report back, i.e. voluntary or involuntary changes, reroutes or other adventures in pursuing these trips?
Mine have been uneventful. No changes possible online without enormous difference in fare even after trip has commenced. Anyone with other experiences?
Thanks
Mine have been uneventful. No changes possible online without enormous difference in fare even after trip has commenced. Anyone with other experiences?
Thanks