Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm
Last edit by: fti
People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!
Jun 5, 2014, 6:45 am
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Penang, Malaysia
Programs: OZ *G, HHonors Gold, Aclub Plat
Posts: 1,025
and the same people.
Jun 5, 2014, 7:30 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BOS/UTH
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Posts: 12,757
Oh, and jealous? Not at all. I couldn't make this one work due to my schedule; but I did get in on the QR mistake fare a few months ago (with six roundtrips) as well as an earlier ex-CMB mistake fare.
Jun 5, 2014, 7:32 am
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Penang, Malaysia
Programs: OZ *G, HHonors Gold, Aclub Plat
Posts: 1,025
OK, let's make them comparable. You've already paid for the ticket but not yet received what you bought (the flight). Suppose that you paid the entire $125 for the Mercedes. You saw the sign on the car and mailed the dealer a certified check (or other cash equivalent) for $125. Are you entitled to enforce the contract at $125?
Jun 5, 2014, 9:06 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Programs: AA LT PLT; QR GLD; Bonvoy LT TIT
Posts: 12,757
Interesting. In the U.S., the law doesn't agree. Unilateral mistakes can be remedied. The problem in the U.S. is that DOT has supplanted the law of mistake in a number of situations, thus greatly clouding the issue.
Jun 5, 2014, 5:28 pm
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Southern California
Programs: UA Platinum, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold, Club Carlson Gold
Posts: 317
What about people who were downgraded mid-trip. They not only received the e-ticket, they used two flight segments of that ticket. If you drive off the used car lot, you get both halves of the car even if you're only sitting in the driver's seat.
I think the question of these tickets was complicated. And through the process, we have learned the positions of multiple players: Swiss, the DoT, CTA, and the flying public. We can keep those positions in mind should future opportunities arise.
Jun 5, 2014, 5:57 pm
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Penang, Malaysia
Programs: OZ *G, HHonors Gold, Aclub Plat
Posts: 1,025
Not looking to get into this argument...just a clarifying question. When you purchase a fare, you buy a ticket. In ye olde days, that was a piece of paper. now it's an e-ticket code that's emailed to you. We received those e-tickets. So didn't we already receive the item we purchased?
What about people who were downgraded mid-trip. They not only received the e-ticket, they used two flight segments of that ticket. If you drive off the used car lot, you get both halves of the car even if you're only sitting in the driver's seat.
I think the question of these tickets was complicated. And through the process, we have learned the positions of multiple players: Swiss, the DoT, CTA, and the flying public. We can keep those positions in mind should future opportunities arise.
What about people who were downgraded mid-trip. They not only received the e-ticket, they used two flight segments of that ticket. If you drive off the used car lot, you get both halves of the car even if you're only sitting in the driver's seat.
I think the question of these tickets was complicated. And through the process, we have learned the positions of multiple players: Swiss, the DoT, CTA, and the flying public. We can keep those positions in mind should future opportunities arise.
Jun 5, 2014, 6:07 pm
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,406
Not looking to get into this argument...just a clarifying question. When you purchase a fare, you buy a ticket. In ye olde days, that was a piece of paper. now it's an e-ticket code that's emailed to you. We received those e-tickets. So didn't we already receive the item we purchased?
What about people who were downgraded mid-trip. They not only received the e-ticket, they used two flight segments of that ticket. If you drive off the used car lot, you get both halves of the car even if you're only sitting in the driver's seat.
I think it's a complicated question.
What about people who were downgraded mid-trip. They not only received the e-ticket, they used two flight segments of that ticket. If you drive off the used car lot, you get both halves of the car even if you're only sitting in the driver's seat.
I think it's a complicated question.
it's not really a complicated issue. The CTA clearly outlines their reasoning. The main complication comes from some people not wanting to accept what is pretty much standard contract law.
Even the DOT seems to be having a hard time reconciling its consumer protections with the case of certain mistake fares (especially in the case of 'bad actors').
Some say airlines must be forced to honour a mistake... but don't have an argument as to why they hold that opinion. The argument by some appears to border on the willingness to inflict loss on another party. For what reason?
In the case of the RGN F fares, many passengers with cancelled tickets suffered no loss. Those that did lose pre-paid accommodation or positioning flights could have avoided those losses by calling the airline to confirm the validity of their fares. But many didn't want to.
The issue of the passengers who flew part way is also not unsurprising. It was raised some time ago that just because one airline is happy to carry you for whatever reason, it doesn't automatically mean the next will.
However, undoubtedly there will be lawyers who can come up with arguments to counter some of the points raised above.
Jun 5, 2014, 6:57 pm
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: BOS/UTH
Programs: AA LT PLT; QR GLD; Bonvoy LT TIT
Posts: 12,757
Not looking to get into this argument...just a clarifying question. When you purchase a fare, you buy a ticket. In ye olde days, that was a piece of paper. now it's an e-ticket code that's emailed to you. We received those e-tickets. So didn't we already receive the item we purchased?
But now that I think about it, it seems to me that when you have paid for the car but you don't have it yet (they're still prepping it for delivery), you're at the same point in the transaction as when you've paid for the flight and have the ticket but haven't flown yet (regardless of whether your ticket is an eticket or a paper ticket).
Jun 6, 2014, 1:00 am
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,859
Because the passenger has to honor a mistake he/she made. The unequal balance of power has been mentioned many times over.
Jun 6, 2014, 1:17 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2007
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It seems to me that what the government (DOT, CTA, etc.) is trying to protect against is someone who knows that the other party has made a mistake taking advantage of it when the other party doesn't realize that he/she/it has made a mistake.
Jun 6, 2014, 9:54 am
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AS, BA, AA
Posts: 3,670
Please. Putting aside arguments we make to various authorities and trying to stick to actual reality, did anyone here really have no idea that it was a mistake due to currency devaluation? That's what I thought. We all knew, and we're trying to take advantage of the situation. No problem there; but let's at least be honest with ourselves.
The second time it came up, I knew that previous fares at this rate had been honored. I also had become (due to research on the country) aware the RGN had recently been opened up from international sanctions and was trying to build a tourism economy. I thought perhaps RGN was simply one of those cities, that for some reason, seem to crop up with really great premium fares on a regular basis (like CMB, or BCN, or the Caribbean).
By the time Round 3 came up, I had already flown on some of the Round 1 tickets. I had absolutely no reason to think there was still an issue with a currency fluctuation that had occurred 6 months ago that was causing a 'mistake', not to mention that Round 3 cost significantly more (for a one-way in Round 3, I paid 3-4x what I paid for round trips during the 'Round 2' Delta sales).
Aside from that all, apparently internal documents show that IATA explicitly warned all the carriers that RGN-YUL was questionable and needed to be manually reviewed. So, if anything, I view Round 3 as more negligence than a mistake.
<shrug>
Jun 7, 2014, 7:22 am
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NYC
Programs: SQ Gold, VA Gold, Marritt Plat, HH Gold
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