How are you impacted by the 2015 change?
Feb 26, 2014, 2:46 pm
#76
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 3,026
Low cost longhaul tkts. Even with Plat and Amex, DL will lose my biz.
If UA follows, will fly less.
It's a shame, since I was planning on shifting 25000 from UA to DL this yr, dropping from 1K to Plat on UA, because of full m$s waiver on amex reserve. UA only waives thru Plat.
With miles inflation and now lower earns, miles mean nothing. :-(
If UA follows, will fly less.
It's a shame, since I was planning on shifting 25000 from UA to DL this yr, dropping from 1K to Plat on UA, because of full m$s waiver on amex reserve. UA only waives thru Plat.
With miles inflation and now lower earns, miles mean nothing. :-(
Feb 26, 2014, 2:47 pm
#77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Programs: DL Diamond, AA Platinum, SPG Platinum
Posts: 255
Literally the first sentence of the e-mail that they sent to millions of people says that MQMs are not changing...but you're right, I'm sure you and the DM rep you talked to are right and their official communication is not...
Feb 26, 2014, 2:53 pm
#78
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Gulf Coast
Programs: Hilton Honors Lifetime Diamond; National Car Rental Executive Elite
Posts: 2,322
From late June, 2013 to 12/31/2013:
59 MQS
63,368 MQM
$11,995 MQD
83,514 Skymiles earned by flying.
Using the 2015 Skymiles calculation algorithm, my 2013 travel would accumulate 60,744 Skymiles...a 27% reduction.
Notes: I only made GM. About 50% of my travel was RDU-MEM-RDU which is between $800-$1,100 per RT.
YTD 2014:
19 MQS
25,292 MQM
$2,522 MQD
50,584 Skymiles earned by flying
Using the 2015 Skymiles calculation algorithm, my 2014YTD travel would accumulate 28,981 Skymiles, a 43% reduction.
Notes: Travel almost exclusively RDU-Los Angeles booked 3-4 weeks in advance.
The 2015 award flights better be cheap and plentiful.
59 MQS
63,368 MQM
$11,995 MQD
83,514 Skymiles earned by flying.
Using the 2015 Skymiles calculation algorithm, my 2013 travel would accumulate 60,744 Skymiles...a 27% reduction.
Notes: I only made GM. About 50% of my travel was RDU-MEM-RDU which is between $800-$1,100 per RT.
YTD 2014:
19 MQS
25,292 MQM
$2,522 MQD
50,584 Skymiles earned by flying
Using the 2015 Skymiles calculation algorithm, my 2014YTD travel would accumulate 28,981 Skymiles, a 43% reduction.
Notes: Travel almost exclusively RDU-Los Angeles booked 3-4 weeks in advance.
The 2015 award flights better be cheap and plentiful.
Feb 26, 2014, 2:53 pm
#79
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta PM, Marriott Plat, Hertz Pres
Posts: 3,649
I am more and more confused by Deltas moves lately. The MQD thing i understood as a way to restrict all us MR people who leap on the $200 mistake fares to japan and reap the MQMs. But with this....all it seems to do is what others mentioned, make the poor poorer and the rich richer. For those 'average' travelers who book way in advance, plan family vacations, arent exclusive to one airline, all this does is make it THAT much harder for them to accumulate significant miles. And at the same time given the really low value of skypesos (of course they say they are fixing that but....ill believe it when i see it), cutting the earnings of regular slut fare tickets by what looks liek 25% on average, while still charging insane 100-200k for biz awards, just makes it impossible to achieve.
While at the same time it hugely favors the business traveler who expenses the trip, or travels at the last min in full paid BE tickets. As was mentioned, a last min BE fare at $8,000 as a DM with 11x points, would give 88,000 miles.
To me this just looks like Delta is trying to shoo away normal travelers and become an airline exclusively flown by business travelers with very generous travel perks.
While at the same time it hugely favors the business traveler who expenses the trip, or travels at the last min in full paid BE tickets. As was mentioned, a last min BE fare at $8,000 as a DM with 11x points, would give 88,000 miles.
To me this just looks like Delta is trying to shoo away normal travelers and become an airline exclusively flown by business travelers with very generous travel perks.
Feb 26, 2014, 2:54 pm
#80
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ATL
Programs: DL GM, Hhonors Gold, SPG Platinum
Posts: 46
I fly mostly in the eastern US, sometimes at the last minute. I've paid $944 for ATL-CVG before (in coach). I haven't done the math yet, but I'm betting I'll come out ahead with this change.
Feb 26, 2014, 3:02 pm
#81
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: New York, New York
Programs: AA Gold, Alaska MVP; Free Agent Super Duper Diamond Treasure Chest ;)
Posts: 4,682
Feb 26, 2014, 3:37 pm
#82
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MKE, WI
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite, AA 2MM Platinum
Posts: 410
Nicely done Delta, a quick review of the results in this thread up to about post #75 shows the following results stated:
Yup, the rich and those fortunate to have an employer paying those high fares will do very well, for the rest of us, move on time!
- 22% improvement
- 23% no change
- 55% less favorable
Yup, the rich and those fortunate to have an employer paying those high fares will do very well, for the rest of us, move on time!
Feb 26, 2014, 3:49 pm
#83
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,309
that's the point
They're moving to reward those who spend more on them. Their technology that they use allows them to explicitly value those travelers who contribute the most to their bottom line and reward them accordingly. Technology along with capacity discipline within delta and within the industry allows them to do this. No giving away things like they use to to people who don't contribute. They don't have to do that any more. And I think other airlines will make the same decisions. Because they can. And Should.
I am more and more confused by Deltas moves lately. The MQD thing i understood as a way to restrict all us MR people who leap on the $200 mistake fares to japan and reap the MQMs. But with this....all it seems to do is what others mentioned, make the poor poorer and the rich richer. For those 'average' travelers who book way in advance, plan family vacations, arent exclusive to one airline, all this does is make it THAT much harder for them to accumulate significant miles. And at the same time given the really low value of skypesos (of course they say they are fixing that but....ill believe it when i see it), cutting the earnings of regular slut fare tickets by what looks liek 25% on average, while still charging insane 100-200k for biz awards, just makes it impossible to achieve.
While at the same time it hugely favors the business traveler who expenses the trip, or travels at the last min in full paid BE tickets. As was mentioned, a last min BE fare at $8,000 as a DM with 11x points, would give 88,000 miles.
To me this just looks like Delta is trying to shoo away normal travelers and become an airline exclusively flown by business travelers with very generous travel perks.
While at the same time it hugely favors the business traveler who expenses the trip, or travels at the last min in full paid BE tickets. As was mentioned, a last min BE fare at $8,000 as a DM with 11x points, would give 88,000 miles.
To me this just looks like Delta is trying to shoo away normal travelers and become an airline exclusively flown by business travelers with very generous travel perks.
Feb 26, 2014, 3:50 pm
#84
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,309
where will you move?
Eventually every airline will have some variation of this...
Nicely done Delta, a quick review of the results in this thread up to about post #75 shows the following results stated:
Yup, the rich and those fortunate to have an employer paying those high fares will do very well, for the rest of us, move on time!
- 22% improvement
- 23% no change
- 55% less favorable
Yup, the rich and those fortunate to have an employer paying those high fares will do very well, for the rest of us, move on time!
Feb 26, 2014, 3:51 pm
#85
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: ATL
Programs: DL DM, SPG PPG
Posts: 81
I am more and more confused by Deltas moves lately. The MQD thing i understood as a way to restrict all us MR people who leap on the $200 mistake fares to japan and reap the MQMs. But with this....all it seems to do is what others mentioned, make the poor poorer and the rich richer. For those 'average' travelers who book way in advance, plan family vacations, arent exclusive to one airline, all this does is make it THAT much harder for them to accumulate significant miles. And at the same time given the really low value of skypesos (of course they say they are fixing that but....ill believe it when i see it), cutting the earnings of regular slut fare tickets by what looks liek 25% on average, while still charging insane 100-200k for biz awards, just makes it impossible to achieve.
While at the same time it hugely favors the business traveler who expenses the trip, or travels at the last min in full paid BE tickets. As was mentioned, a last min BE fare at $8,000 as a DM with 11x points, would give 88,000 miles.
To me this just looks like Delta is trying to shoo away normal travelers and become an airline exclusively flown by business travelers with very generous travel perks.
While at the same time it hugely favors the business traveler who expenses the trip, or travels at the last min in full paid BE tickets. As was mentioned, a last min BE fare at $8,000 as a DM with 11x points, would give 88,000 miles.
To me this just looks like Delta is trying to shoo away normal travelers and become an airline exclusively flown by business travelers with very generous travel perks.
Edit: you meant from their employer. Was thinking calling Delta's benefits generous was optimistic at best.
Feb 26, 2014, 4:05 pm
#86
Moderator: Chase Ultimate Rewards
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 2P, MR LT Plat, IHG Plat, BW Dia, HH Au, Avis PC
Posts: 5,455
For those keeping score, +1 toward "less favorable". Looks like I'll have to leave, as much as I enjoy the Delta product and people.
As a low-to-moderate value frequent flyer, I'd probably earn somewhere less than half as much in the new program.
Maybe it makes sense for Delta to lose me. Hopefully they can find a kettle to replace my revenue with fees.
Will probably move over to Alaska and use AA for long-haul.
(Silver lining: Didn't waste a credit pull on a DL Amex yet...)
As a low-to-moderate value frequent flyer, I'd probably earn somewhere less than half as much in the new program.
Maybe it makes sense for Delta to lose me. Hopefully they can find a kettle to replace my revenue with fees.
Will probably move over to Alaska and use AA for long-haul.
(Silver lining: Didn't waste a credit pull on a DL Amex yet...)
Feb 26, 2014, 4:09 pm
#87
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: UA 1K, DL Diamond, Hyatt Plat, AA Plat, SPG Plat/Lifetime Plat, Amex Plat / PRG, DClub
Posts: 308
What are the odds they'll change their burn rate? Will it still be 25k/50k for RT tix? Or since the earn curve is changing will the burn change too?
For other programs that have this structure, does burn look different?
For other programs that have this structure, does burn look different?
Feb 26, 2014, 4:15 pm
#88
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta PM, Marriott Plat, Hertz Pres
Posts: 3,649
Actually it caps out at 75k per trip (although others have hinted at buying 2 one way fares to really maximize miles) and what are these generous travel perks you speak of?
Edit: you meant from their employer. Was thinking calling Delta's benefits generous was optimistic at best.
Edit: you meant from their employer. Was thinking calling Delta's benefits generous was optimistic at best.
For those wanting a good laugh at my numbers (lots of travel on AF/KLM and award tickets):
2013 Flight totals:
MQM 75,541
Miles earned 72,084
MQD: $1,338 LOL.
2015:
Assuming PM+Reserve totaling 11 per $1.
14,718 Miles
Which means a 79.58% reduction
Feb 26, 2014, 4:17 pm
#89
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,413
No, a $8000 fare (including carrier imposed fees but not government taxes and fees) X 11 miles per dollar = 88,000 miles for a DM, which exceeds the 75,000 limit per ticket.
Feb 26, 2014, 4:18 pm
#90
Join Date: Dec 2013
Programs: DL Diamond, AA Platinum, SPG Platinum
Posts: 255
They're moving to reward those who spend more on them. Their technology that they use allows them to explicitly value those travelers who contribute the most to their bottom line and reward them accordingly. Technology along with capacity discipline within delta and within the industry allows them to do this. No giving away things like they use to to people who don't contribute. They don't have to do that any more. And I think other airlines will make the same decisions. Because they can. And Should.
This is just my opinion but I think this is a huge oversight on Delta's part - they think that their demand is inelastic because of the lack of competition in a lot of cities and that pissing off a large part of their customer-base won't change anything. They think people will complain for a bit and forget about it and accept the new normal and other airlines will see that and follow suit. I hope that doesn't happen - I hope their competitors identify the opportunity to poach customers appropriately (seems to already be happening with AA) and Delta suffers for their seeming lack of care for their customers. Because that is what should happen with proper competition in a free market if that is still the case with airlines.
And if it isn't...that means that airlines are just a small step from completely colluding to make flying a worse and more expensive experience for everyone.