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DL Encroaches Further on AS' Turf - Master Thread

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Old Jul 30, 2014, 2:10 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: eponymous_coward
To try to make sense of what's all happening between AS and DL, the idea arose during the recent Alaska do to create a compendium in the wiki of the various stages of the current spat. Please add your knowledge where you can!

Timeline of events:

**proposed format for new route announcements**
mm/dd/yy [date of announcement] Airline XXX-YYY [new vs changed] [frequency] dd/mm/yy [date of service/change] Airline Press Release link | FT thread/post link
  1. 2008: Delta and Northwest merge, Delta's staff takes over relationship with Alaska
  2. 06/05/09 Alaska ATL - SEA New 1x daily 23/10/09 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  3. 2011: Alaska allegedly (using data gleaned from codeshare sales) tries to lower the ratio of the fare it pays Delta on codeshare itineraries
  4. 08/10/12: The infamous "joint" Seattle press conference where Delta CEO Richard Anderson announces they will ramp up international service in Seattle (AS CEO Brad Tilden stays quiet in the background) -- DL Announcement | FT Thread
  5. 01/11/12 Alaska SLC - SEA New 2x daily 04/04/13 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  6. 25/02/13 Delta announces resumption of SEA-ANC, new SEA-LAS. Hard to find press release/news, but this site mentions it.
  7. 02/05/13 Alaska ATL - PDX New 1x daily 26/08/13 AS Announcement
  8. 01/10/13 Delta SEA - LAS Increase from 1x - 3x daily 06/01/14 -> 5x daily 01/04/14 DL Announcement | Post #1
  9. 01/10/13 Delta SEA - SFO New 6x daily 29/03/14 -> 7x daily 05/06/14 DL Announcement | Post #1
  10. 01/10/13 Delta SEA - LAX Increase from 5x - 7x daily 05/06/14 DL Announcement |Post #1
  11. 05/11/13 Delta SEA - SAN New 4x daily 02/06/14 DL Announcement | Post #77
  12. 05/11/13 Delta SEA - ANC Increase 1x to 2x daily summer seasonal 05/06/14 DL Announcement | Post #90
  13. 05/11/13 Delta SEA - PDX New 4x daily 02/09/14 DL Announcement | Post #77
  14. 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - PDX 09/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  15. 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - SAN 10/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  16. 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - LAX 11/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  17. 06/12/13 Alaska SLC - SJC 12/06/14 AS Announcement | FT Thread
  18. 17/12/13 Delta SEA - ANC 29/05/14 (increased from 2x-3x daily) Thread [link needed] DL Announcement
  19. 17/12/13 Delta SEA - JNU 29/05/14 Thread [link needed] DL Announcement | Post #268
  20. 17/12/13 Delta SEA - SJC 29/05/14 Thread [link needed] DL Announcement
  21. 20/12/13 Alaska SLC - BOI 16/06/14 New 1x Daily AS Announcement
  22. 20/12/13 Alaska SLC - LAS 16/06/14 New 2x Daily AS Announcement
  23. 20/12/13 Alaska SLC - SFO 18/06/14 New 1x Daily AS Announcement
  24. 10/02/14 Delta PHX - SEA 20/12/14 New 5x Daily CRJ-900 DL Announcement
  25. 10/02/14 Delta PSP - SEA 20/12/14 New 1x Daily CRJ-900 Winter Season DL Announcement
  26. 10/02/14 Delta TUS - SEA 20/12/14 New Saturday CRJ-900 Winter Season DL Announcement
  27. 10/02/14 Delta HNL - SEA 20/12/14 Increase 1x to 2x Daily 757-200/757-300 DL Announcement
  28. 11/02/14 Alaska DTW - SEA 04/09/14 New 1x Daily AS Announcement
  29. 11/02/14 Alaska MSY - SEA 12/06/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
  30. 11/02/14 Alaska SEA - TPA 20/06/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
  31. 26/02/14 Delta Delta changes SkyMiles to revenue based points/miles DL Announcement
  32. 28/03/14 Alaska BWI - SEA 02/09/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
  33. 28/03/14 Alaska ABQ - SEA 18/09/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
  34. 28/03/14 Alaska ATL - PDX 01/09/14 Discontinued 1x Daily 737-800 AS Announcement
  35. 17/03/14 Delta BOI - LAX 05/16/14 New 1x Daily E-175 DL Announcement
  36. 09/05/14 Alaska CUN - SEA 06/11/14 New 1x Daily 737-800 Seasonal AS Announcement
  37. 27/05/14 Delta GEG - SEA 03/11/14 New 4x Daily CRJ-700 DL Announcement
  38. 27/05/14 Delta SEA - YYC 03/11/14 New 2x Daily E-175 DL Announcement
  39. 27/05/14 Delta OGG - SEA 20/12/14 New 1x Daily 757-200 DL Announcement
  40. 27/05/14 Delta BZN - SEA 20/12/14 New Saturday E-175 Winter Season (Flight will op 1x Daily from 20/12/14-04/01/15) DL Announcement
  41. 27/05/14 Delta SEA - SJD 20/12/14 New Saturday A319 Winter Season DL Announcement
  42. 27/05/14 Delta PVR - SEA 20/12/14 New Saturday A319 Winter Season DL Announcement
  43. 27/05/14 Alaska Announces 11% increase in SEA flying for Spring 2015 AS Announcement
  44. 27/05/14 Alaska BOI - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 8x to 9x Daily Q400 AS Announcement
  45. 27/05/14 Alaska BOS - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 2x to 3x Daily 737-800/737-900 AS Announcement
  46. 27/05/14 Alaska ORD - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 3x to 4x Daily 737-800/737-900 AS Announcement
  47. 27/05/14 Alaska DEN - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 4x to 5x Daily 737 AS Announcement
  48. 27/05/14 Alaska FAI - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 3x to 4x Daily 737 AS Announcement
  49. 27/05/14 Alaska PSP - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 3x to 4x Daily 737 Seasonal AS Announcement
  50. 27/05/14 Alaska SEA - SMF 08/03/15 increase from 5x to 6x Daily 737 AS Announcement
  51. 27/05/14 Alaska LAX - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 12x to 13x Daily 737 AS Announcement
  52. 27/05/14 Alaska PDX - SEA 08/03/15 increase from 24x to 27x Daily Q400 AS Announcement
  53. 27/05/14 Alaska GEG - SEA 08/03/15 replace 2x Daily Q400 with 737 AS Announcement
  54. 27/05/14 Alaska SEA - SNA 08/03/15 increase from 7x to 8x Daily 737-700/737-800 AS Announcement
  55. 08/07/14 Alaska PDX - SJD 03/11/14 New 4x Weekly 737-800/737-900 Seasonal AS Announcement
  56. 08/07/14 Alaska PDX - PVR 04/11/14 New 3x Weekly 737-800/737-900 Seasonal AS Announcement
  57. 13/11/14 Alaska IAD - SEA 11/03/15 New 1x Daily 737-800/737-900 AS Announcement
  58. 14/11/14 Delta seeks 30 (!) gates at SEA Bloomberg story
  59. 19/11/14 Delta adds SEA-DEN/BOI/SMF/KTN/SIT Summer '15 DL Press Release | FT Thread
  60. 11/25/14 Alaska Adds SEA-MKE NEW daily E-175 starting July 1, 2015 AS Press Release
  61. 11/25/14 Alaska Adds SEA-OKC NEW daily E-175 starting July 1, 2015 AS Press Release
  62. 22/02/15 Delta Announces 717 service to operate on SEA-LAX/LAS/PHX flights DL Press Release and then pulls LAS/PHX service back to regional jets. LAX service remains on 737 equipment (Delta.com)
  63. 22/02/15 Delta Extends SEA-JNU to year round service using CRJ-900 outside of summer DL Press Release
  64. 22/02/15 Delta Extends SEA-FAI to year round service using E-175 outside of summer DL Press Release
  65. 22/02/15 Delta Extends SEA-PVR/SJD seasonal Saturday service to October 3, 2015 DL Press Release and then pulls it back to start December 19, 2015 (Delta.com)
  66. 22/02/15 Delta Adds 2nd SEA-PSP seasonal flight CRJ-700 starting December 19, 2015DL Press Release
  67. 22/02/15 Delta Increases seasonal SEA-TUS Saturday flight to Daily using CRJ-700 starting December 19, 2015DL Press Release
  68. 22/02/15 Delta Adds SEA-KOA NEW daily 757-200 starting December 19, 2015DL Press Release
  69. 10/03/15 Alaska Adds SEA-JFK NEW daily 737-800 starting September 16, 2015 AS Press Release
  70. 28/04/15 Alaska Adds SEA-BNA NEW daily 737-800 starting September 23, 2015 AS Press Release
  71. 28/04/15 Alaska Adds SEA-RDU NEW daily 737-800 starting October 1, 2015 AS Press Release
  72. 28/04/15 Alaska Adds SEA-CHS NEW 4x/weekly 737-800 starting November 16, 2015 AS Press Release
  73. 14/05/15 Alaska Announces Preferred Plus Seating options AS Press Release
  74. 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-BZN Daily year round CRJ-700 on Aug 1, 2015 DL Press Release
  75. 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-PSC NEW 3x/day CRJ-700 on Nov 1, 2015 DL Press Release
  76. 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-MCO NEW 1x/day 757-200 on Dec 19, 2015 DL Press Release
  77. 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-BOS NEW 1x/day 737-800 on April 4, 2016 DL Press Release
  78. 26/05/15 Delta Adds SEA-YYJ NEW 3x/day CRJ-700 on April 4, 2016 DL Press Release
  79. 26/05/15 Delta Announces end to SEA-HND (Tokyo Haneda) service effective September 30. Route authority to be transferred to American to operate Los Angeles - Haneda. Seattle Times
  80. 07/22/15 Alaska announces partnership with Hainan Airlines which will reduce dependence on Delta for traffic to/from Asia AS Announcement | FT Thread
  81. 08/05/15 Alaska announces Boardroom members can access American Admirals Club starting 15 Aug and on 17 Oct that Former US Airways flights will be eligible for earn and burn miles FT Thread
  82. 09/22/15 Alaska announces partnership with Icelandair Icelandair Announcement
  83. 10/22/15 Alaska Opens New North Satellite Boardroom. AS Press Release
  84. 10/22/15 Alaska Alaska announces codeshare agreement with Emirates. AS Press Release
  85. 12/18/15 Delta Adds SEA-MSO, SEA-BIL and SEA-YEG NEW with CRJ-900/700 equipment operated by Skywest Routesonline (MSO) Routesonline (BIL) Routesonline (YEG)
  86. 01/01/16 Alaska and Delta: no more reciprocal Board Room/Sky Club Benefits
  87. 04/04/16 Alaska Alaska Air Group announces acquisition of Virgin America (Pending Government Approval). AS Press Release
  88. 05/10/16 Alaska Announces Japan Airlines as new Mileage Plan Member and codeshare partner. AS Press Release
  89. 05/11/16 DL adds Shuttle Service to Seattle (SFO and LAX)
  90. 06/21/16 Delta Will switch SEA-LHR from Delta to Virgin Atlantic using 787-9 starting March 26, 2017. Delta's 767-300ER will be reallocated seasonally to a 4x/week service on PDX-LHR from May 26, 2107-Oct 29, 2017. DL Press Release
  91. 06/21/16 Delta Add SEA-SUN Daily Dec 21, 2016-Jan 2, 2017 and Saturday's only from Jan 7-Mar 25, 2017 with CRJ-700. Routesonline | Delta.com
  92. 06/29/16 Alaska Adds SEA-SBP (San Luis Obispo) Daily year round E175 operated by SkyWest on April 17, 2017. AS Press Release
  93. 07/13/16 Alaska Adding seasonal flights to SEA-SUN. Double Daily Q400 Dec 16-Jan 2 and an added Sat/Sun from Feb 18-Mar 26, 2017. AS Press Release
  94. 07/21/16 Alaska Increasing SEA-EWR to 3 Daily flights with 737 starting May 14, 2017. AS Press Release
  95. 07/21/16 Alaska Adds SEA-ICT (Wichita) NEW daily E175 operated by SkyWest starting April 13, 2017. AS Press Release
  96. 07/21/16 Alaska Adds SEA-IND (Indianapolis) NEW daily 737 starting May 14, 2017. AS Press Release
  97. 08/14/16 Delta Adds 2nd SEA-BOS Daily 737-800 starting June 8, 2017. DL Press Release | Routesonline
  98. 08/14/16 Delta Adds SEA-EUG NEW 3x daily CRJ-700 starting April 1, 2017. Routesonline
  99. 08/14/16 Delta Adds SEA-RDU NEW daily 737-800 starting June 8, 2017. Routesonline
  100. 08/31/16 Delta discontinues SEA-BIL nonstop flights. Delta.com
  101. 08/31/16 Delta discontinues SEA-JNU from year round to seasonal until May 19, 2017. Delta.com
  102. 09/05/16 Delta discontinues SEA-MSO and SEA-BZN nonstop flights. Delta.com
  103. 10/21/2016 Delta opens a beautiful, spacious, new lounge at SeaTac, further showing how uninspiring the Board Rooms are.
  104. 3/2/2020 Delta (re)adds SEA-LHR, adds SEA-CMH, SEA-DFW, more frequencies on existing routes. Delta.com
  105. Further chronology? Please add! Loss of benefits, etc.
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DL Encroaches Further on AS' Turf - Master Thread

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Old May 15, 2016, 10:21 pm
  #2686  
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward
FWIW, I can actually find DL award inventory on SEA-HKG using the AS website. Quite a decent amount of it, for it being Delta SkyPesos™.
DL award availability is not nearly as bad as their reputation makes them out to be.

I find it usually easier to use DL miles than UA miles.
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Old May 15, 2016, 11:32 pm
  #2687  
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward
They could just save time and douse a lot of bundles of Japanese yen in Jet-A and strike a match.

I can't see NH, DL AND JL all running SEA-TYO and making any money at it.
I think JL would come out ahead in the end, with onward connects at both ends. DL gets blocked in NRT and with limited feed to/from SEA, while NH lost their feeders from UA. It's just a matter of taking the hits in the beginning.

Oh, and probably an SS8 would be required.
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Old May 16, 2016, 5:16 pm
  #2688  
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Originally Posted by channa
I find it usually easier to use DL miles than UA miles.
especially domestically, and if you are willing to fly coach INTL, that is pretty good too.
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Old May 16, 2016, 10:55 pm
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Full page ad page A4 in today's Alaska Dispatch News. Delta is offering 10% off anywhere in the US on Alaska originations. Free 2 checked bags for self & up to 8 others when using Skymiles number.

http://delta.com/onlyalaska
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Old May 16, 2016, 11:37 pm
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Originally Posted by flytoeat
Thanks for the link; it's the first time I've seen anything regarding the duration of the agreement. That's good news for me - I can keep buying premium Delta tickets and posting to MP.
First time I've seen anything on the duration too. Don't forget though that a contract is easy to change (or cancel) if both parties agree. Maybe AS wants to keep the DL agreement around for a while (or possibly vice versa?) but I wouldn't absolutely bank on this being here for a few more years.
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Old May 17, 2016, 1:00 am
  #2691  
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Originally Posted by IceTrojan
I think JL would come out ahead in the end, with onward connects at both ends. DL gets blocked in NRT and with limited feed to/from SEA, while NH lost their feeders from UA. It's just a matter of taking the hits in the beginning.
LH hasn't ducked and run from SEA without UA feed. Neither has OZ. Neither has BR. So I'm not sure NH is going to cut and run soon either just because there's no local *A partner. But if JL shows up it's likely a bloodbath, with 3x daily to TYO.

If anything, given how DL is trying to deemphasize the NRT hub and do beyond flying, it might be them dropping SEA-NRT.
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Old May 17, 2016, 7:42 am
  #2692  
 
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward
LH hasn't ducked and run from SEA without UA feed. Neither has OZ. Neither has BR. So I'm not sure NH is going to cut and run soon either just because there's no local *A partner. But if JL shows up it's likely a bloodbath, with 3x daily to TYO.

If anything, given how DL is trying to deemphasize the NRT hub and do beyond flying, it might be them dropping SEA-NRT.
DL has a lot of money invested in NRT and have centered their entire Asian operation around that hub. With the 787 online it's taking traffic away from NRT and I for one am happy about that. It was a huge pain to get off flight from US dash through to another check point and to another terminal to catch China / Guam/ Taiwan / Vietnam flights. And the back ups at that "checkpoint"
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Old May 17, 2016, 8:37 am
  #2693  
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Originally Posted by edgewood49
DL has a lot of money invested in NRT and have centered their entire Asian operation around that hub.
http://crankyflier.com/2013/10/17/de...or-of-seattle/

http://blog.wandr.me/2016/04/haneda-...ited-hawaiian/

It's very obvious that DL's pulling NRT down over time. HND is the preferred airport if you want to serve TYO, the same way you'd rather serve DCA as opposed to IAD or BWI because of proximity to the city (WAS) you are serving.

The problem for DL is their SEA-HND service flopped miserably in a nighttime slot (with really lousy timings), and they didn't reapply for it.

I wonder if DL would come to the point where they would just flow traffic to PVG and MU instead of running fifth freedom service out of NRT, and just cough up Guam/Saipan.
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Old May 17, 2016, 8:52 am
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Delta destination #52 ex-SEA is FLL
1x weekly starting December 16th, daily over Christmas

DL964 SEA2230 – 0730+1FLL 757
DL898 FLL1200 – 1545SEA 757
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Old May 17, 2016, 9:11 am
  #2695  
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Originally Posted by DLASflyer
Delta destination #52 ex-SEA is FLL
1x weekly starting December 16th, daily over Christmas

DL964 SEA2230 – 0730+1FLL 757
DL898 FLL1200 – 1545SEA 757
a fairly weak offering IMO, poor times and once a week for a route that should be lucrative at least during the winter. seems like DL just needed something to do with the airplane.
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Old May 17, 2016, 9:40 am
  #2696  
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there was a comment on the DL board about how it's better timed for cruise pax than the AS flights
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Old May 17, 2016, 10:05 am
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward
http://crankyflier.com/2013/10/17/de...or-of-seattle/

http://blog.wandr.me/2016/04/haneda-...ited-hawaiian/

It's very obvious that DL's pulling NRT down over time. HND is the preferred airport if you want to serve TYO, the same way you'd rather serve DCA as opposed to IAD or BWI because of proximity to the city (WAS) you are serving.

The problem for DL is their SEA-HND service flopped miserably in a nighttime slot (with really lousy timings), and they didn't reapply for it.

I wonder if DL would come to the point where they would just flow traffic to PVG and MU instead of running fifth freedom service out of NRT, and just cough up Guam/Saipan.
possible Guam is a pain if flying DL rather than UA. Although as soon as UA bought CO they took that really nice 767 international bird off and put on a domestic Ghetto bird. Ruined the whole trip for me ! Only advantage was no passports.

Will have to wait for the next chapter, the JAL hookup with AS certainly muddies the water for DL doesn't it! Love that move.
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Old May 17, 2016, 10:51 am
  #2698  
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Originally Posted by jrl767
there was a comment on the DL board about how it's better timed for cruise pax than the AS flights
with an afternoon cruise departure, indeed it might be preferable for some to arrive on a 7:30am same day redeye...but probably not all. not sure about the return being better timed, as i don't know when the boats start rolling back into FLL harbor for the day.
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Old May 17, 2016, 11:29 am
  #2699  
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Originally Posted by PV_Premier
with an afternoon cruise departure, indeed it might be preferable for some to arrive on a 7:30am same day redeye...but probably not all. not sure about the return being better timed, as i don't know when the boats start rolling back into FLL harbor for the day.
FWIW I'm doing a cruise out of FLL later this year -- the times they gave us are sailing at 4pm on departure day and disembark 7am on arrival day.
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Old May 17, 2016, 12:56 pm
  #2700  
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Originally Posted by Zorak
... sailing at 4pm on departure day and disembark 7am on arrival day.
I don't know a thing about Florida ports, but those times are typical for Seattle; I learned long ago not to schedule a Sun departure between ~0900 and ~1530 during cruise season (~May thru Sep)
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