The WestJet 737 MAX 8 thread
Mar 12, 2019, 9:42 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 297
The WestJet 737 MAX 8 thread
Canada has now grounded them: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gar...rash-1.5054234
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/boeing...ax-8-1.5052471
Which will affect Westjet’s transatlantic operations from the east coast. Or are all of the 737 MAX routes to Europe seasonal and haven’t commenced yet?
Can Westjet’s other non-MAX 737 aircraft do the distances without a refuel stop?
Last edited by tecate55; Mar 13, 2019 at 10:03 am
Mar 12, 2019, 11:01 am
#4
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Posts: 297
Mar 12, 2019, 4:04 pm
#6
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: YYG
Programs: airlines and hotels and rental cars - oh my!
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Could they? Sure thing. Will they? Unlikely, I would think given Westjet's 787 roll-out schedule.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the Max8. There's certainly no shortage of discussion with the EU and UK having now joined the party by effectively banning it from their airspace. But with two hull loss accidents and hundreds dead in what appear to be two very similar incidents over a five-month span, Boeing needs to deliver some answers.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the Max8. There's certainly no shortage of discussion with the EU and UK having now joined the party by effectively banning it from their airspace. But with two hull loss accidents and hundreds dead in what appear to be two very similar incidents over a five-month span, Boeing needs to deliver some answers.
Mar 12, 2019, 6:45 pm
#7
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: YYT
Programs: AC E35k, HHonors Silver
Posts: 743
Scheduled to fly YHZ - LGW on the MAX in July with the family. Glad that's some months away & hope that there will be a resolution before then. Not sure I would want to get on that plane next week.
(& I flew TATL 5 YYT-LHR 5 times last year on a MAX with AC).
(& I flew TATL 5 YYT-LHR 5 times last year on a MAX with AC).
Mar 12, 2019, 7:28 pm
#9
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
My perspective:
- The Lion Air accident has been confirmed by the FAA to be related to he MCAS system and erroneous input from the angle-of-attack sensor causing it to activate when it shouldn’t have. The system is easily disconnected, but unfortunately the Lion Air pilots did not know that due to the information and technical change not being prominent in the manuals or specifically trained for.
- The MCAS malfunction in the Lion Air case caused an 8-page Airwothiness Directive to be issued by the FAA last year, every MAX pilot should be familiar with this (certainly the Air Canada and WestJet pilots are, as it was a topic of conversation in forums). Any MCAS malfunction should be a non-event with this prominent information and the ease of disconnection.
- Crashes due to similar systems malfunction have happened before, yet have also been benign to properly trained pilots. One case in particular was the Turkish Airlines 737NG crash with fatalities in 2009 in Amsterdam, this was due to a radio altimeter indicating below zero altitude while at several hundred feet, putting the auto throttle into retard mode on the approach and the pilots not reacting to the throttles moving to idle. WestJet amongst others has also had this problem, but it has just become a technical snag, as the pilot was covering the throttles as proper procedure dictates (approaching Calgary also in 2009) and just pushed the throttles forward, disconnected autothrottle and filed a report on landing (further info on AvHerald.com).
- Reports of several MAX aircraft in the US experiencing a pitch down a few seconds after engaging autopilot that have been linked to the Lion Air and Ethiopian crashes by the Press are very unlikely to be the same issue due to the fact that the MCAS system is not active either when the autopilot is engaged or flaps are deployed. In each case the pilots just followed procedure, flew the aircraft and filed a report on landing.
So far this year I’ve flown twice on 737MAXs, three times on 737NGs, twice on CRJ900s and fourteen times on A320/A321s. I have no problem on flying on any of them any time, I look forward to my next 737MAX flight and I have confidence the aircraft is safe when operated well to standard procedures.
- The Lion Air accident has been confirmed by the FAA to be related to he MCAS system and erroneous input from the angle-of-attack sensor causing it to activate when it shouldn’t have. The system is easily disconnected, but unfortunately the Lion Air pilots did not know that due to the information and technical change not being prominent in the manuals or specifically trained for.
- The MCAS malfunction in the Lion Air case caused an 8-page Airwothiness Directive to be issued by the FAA last year, every MAX pilot should be familiar with this (certainly the Air Canada and WestJet pilots are, as it was a topic of conversation in forums). Any MCAS malfunction should be a non-event with this prominent information and the ease of disconnection.
- Crashes due to similar systems malfunction have happened before, yet have also been benign to properly trained pilots. One case in particular was the Turkish Airlines 737NG crash with fatalities in 2009 in Amsterdam, this was due to a radio altimeter indicating below zero altitude while at several hundred feet, putting the auto throttle into retard mode on the approach and the pilots not reacting to the throttles moving to idle. WestJet amongst others has also had this problem, but it has just become a technical snag, as the pilot was covering the throttles as proper procedure dictates (approaching Calgary also in 2009) and just pushed the throttles forward, disconnected autothrottle and filed a report on landing (further info on AvHerald.com).
- Reports of several MAX aircraft in the US experiencing a pitch down a few seconds after engaging autopilot that have been linked to the Lion Air and Ethiopian crashes by the Press are very unlikely to be the same issue due to the fact that the MCAS system is not active either when the autopilot is engaged or flaps are deployed. In each case the pilots just followed procedure, flew the aircraft and filed a report on landing.
So far this year I’ve flown twice on 737MAXs, three times on 737NGs, twice on CRJ900s and fourteen times on A320/A321s. I have no problem on flying on any of them any time, I look forward to my next 737MAX flight and I have confidence the aircraft is safe when operated well to standard procedures.
Mar 12, 2019, 9:44 pm
#10
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Delta, BC
Posts: 1,646
A 737-800 is not a "MAX". The MAX designations do not use -800, or -900, or -700, but simply 7, 8, 9 (or 10); typically designated by airlines as 7M8 for the MAX8.
Mar 12, 2019, 10:14 pm
#11
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 297
If 90%+ of people off the street can't look at the model number and tell which one is the most recent model, then Boeing is failing at human factors. The biggest company in the world (AAPL) does it this way for their hardware and software. No need to re-invent the wheel, just do what people are already normalized to and familiar with.
"Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better." really rings true here.
Mar 13, 2019, 10:04 am
#12
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 297
Mar 13, 2019, 10:19 am
#13
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 297
Westjet’s 73 page international tariff can be found here:
https://www.westjet.com/assets/wj-we...us)-tariff.pdf
How cancellations are handled when outside the carrier’s control can be found starting on page 50.
What constitutes an airline that WestJet has a Commercial Agreement with?
Just partners? Just Interlines? Both?
https://www.westjet.com/assets/wj-we...us)-tariff.pdf
How cancellations are handled when outside the carrier’s control can be found starting on page 50.
What constitutes an airline that WestJet has a Commercial Agreement with?
Just partners? Just Interlines? Both?
Mar 13, 2019, 10:34 am
#15
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
At this point with spring break traffic, I would say the ability to provide alternative carrier options will be limited and probably be mainly used to return guests/passengers to their point of origin. Between WestJet, Air Canada and Sunwing about 20,000 seats per day have been removed from the market, I would only expect about half of those could be absorbed and the rest will probably have to make do with a refund, hopefully those people can cover other out-of-pocket costs from insurance.