CALimey

I despise RyanAir, but they're really a niche airline. People like my Eastern European relatives who make a pittance compared to Western standards will work the FR system to the max. They will find a 5 Euro fare and keep it that way. Previously they had to take 24 hour bus rides to Germany so for them FR is a godsend. For me as a business traveller, forget it.

Of course /that/ depends on the cheapness of the company you work for. 20 years ago, most European companies sent their employees business class on the rare occasions they travelled. 10 years ago, European very frequent travellers (including me!) would generally shun the low cost airlines. Fast forward to now, and many small to medium European companies embrace the low costs and even perform audits to ensure that people are not exclusively flying (say) LH for status reasons- the culture there has shifted to one that saves the company money at the expense of the business traveller's comfort. .

I am hopeful that the legacies can hold off completely RyanAirifying, at least until I can retire. They definitely have time on their side. They can keep incrementally heading in that direction and over a long enough period of time people will accept it as the norm.

TBH, I'm pretty sure it will happen. On the plus side, I don't think it will happen for quite a while: for the time being, most companies still tolerate employees having loyalty to one airline within reason.

That said, this WILL change at some point- and when it does, Ryanairification of the industry is the only logical outcome.

Cheers,

Paul.

John Thacker

The way you become a leading airline is by providing a product people want at a price that they're willing to pay for it. If all that mattered was having the best product, then all the "business-class only" airlines wouldn't fail after being launched.

Sure, some people might well pick an airline based on having snacks in Y, but a lot of people pick whatever is cheapest for that flight. The only people who shop on features are frequent fliers, who are then willing to pay more money to fly on their favorite airline.

Part of the problem is that casual fliers don't know the difference in policies between different airlines, whether food, standby policies, close-in award ticketing fees, etc. If you're going to have a policy that offers more or charges less in those areas, you have to advertise the heck out of it or otherwise people will just pick the flight that's $5 less while complaining about the worse service. It's not like Southwest could just have a free luggage policy; they had to make it the centerpiece of their ad campaign.

The reason that Southwest doesn't let its fares be advertised on other websites is directly related to their unusual policies-- bags fly free, no RJs, no change fees beyond base fare changes, etc. They actually are more expensive on some of their routes than competitors (their "low cost' strategy is mostly related to avoiding the elaborate cross-subsidization of travel to and from small airports in a hub-and-spoke model), but if they get people to their website they can make their value proposition in a way that a search engine won't.

gawhite411

It's not so much the sympton itself, but rather the underlying disease. Five years ago, CO served ice cream sundaes as dessert in F on all flights over 3.5 hours. Salt and pepper shakers (little mini glass ones) were placed on the tray tables. The warm nuts served on transcons came in ramekins that were warmed. There were four entree choices on transcons. And while the free meals at mealtime in Y weren't great they were something.

Today, CO charges for those stupid stirring mixers for F passengers. Ice cream sundaes appear only on the transcons. Salt and pepper shakers have been replaced with packets; transcon nuts come in a bag; there are only three entree choices. Free Meals in Y first got incredibly crappy and then were discountinued altogether. There are no pillows in F on CO flights.

CO had, 5 years ago, the best domestic F service. So much of the rah rah spirit that channa so cleverly mocks dates from an era where CO's F soft product was actually nicer than its competitors. The latest iteration of product degradation on CO is troubling. CO is starting to look a lot more like US.

Can anyone reallly be that sad about a bag of preztel dust -- no of course not. But it's just so petty and reflects an underlying theme.


Agree. They are going to charge for soda very soon.

andrewk829

Perhaps the bag of pretzels could be restored in turn for the following: I don't need a cup and napkin with my soda. How many people, when drinking a can of soda at home, pour the soda into a cup or glass, and how many people require a napkin to drink a Coke?

If FAs simply came down the aisle and handed out cans of soda, the time required for the beverage service would be cut by two-thirds. And there would be less trash to collect, also saving time, and all those plastic cups would not represent en environmental waste. So in return, maybe we could also have pretzels.

This would all be contingent on having a means to be sure the cans were served cold. I don't think the aircraft galleys include beverage chillers (someone who knows such things, correct me if I am wrong), but if they were chilled prior to the aircraft being catered, hundreds of cans placed in close proximity to one another should stay sufficiently cold to be served within 2 hours. On longer flights, fine, keep cups and ice for late-flight beverage services.

CMK10

This is a really good post and reflects exactly how I feel.

why fly

well said!

eorsini

United is becoming more and more like USAIR (who they almost bought) they constantly are pursuing methods to fleece the passenger and with the constant charges to use the earned points show their true colors. Being a loyal customer means nothing to them in actions only words.

buckeyefanflyer

Even many flight attendents think it is a cheap move not to give out the small bag of pretzels. I will be a nice guy and raid the PC supply and pass them out.

channa

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.654 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104)

Southwest is not driving people to their website to pitch their value proposition, they're trying to thwart comparison shopping while maintaining average higher fares along with a low fare marketing perception.

jeffhacker

It only failed because, at the time, nobody else went along. Who knows what would happen if somebody else tried it now?

boolean64

This is the crux of the issue. Unless people are willing to either a) pay more or b) take their business elsewhere, United would be doing a disservice to its shareholders by choosing to keep the bag of pretzels.

And this is why E+ is staying and the pretzels are going. Lots of people were willing to give up their loyalty to UA if E+ went...and some people are also willing to pay more.

While the pretzels are a signal of the quality of the airline, I find it incredibly hard to believe that more than a few dozen people worldwide would either pay a higher fare to fly UA vs. another airline solely because UA offers a bag of pretzels and the alternative doesn't. Nor do I believe that there is a meaningful number of people who will switch loyalty specifically because the bag of pretzels are gone.

Lots of people complain about the airlines' race to the bottom. A lot of the fault can be placed on the ever greater demand for lower prices at the expense of better service. Asking for lower prices and the same level of service seems unreasonable. And the masses have spoken...lower prices are more important than a bag of pretzels. All the airlines are doing is giving the customers what they want...a few FTers to the contrary.

VivoPerLei

Hard to dispute. I was even charged 2 euros for a diet coke on Brussels Airlines the other day.

ColoBill1

But that is not what has been happening lately, is it? The airlines keep raising their fares, while at the same time reducing service/amenities.

And, please, let's not always rush to blame everything on the price of oil. Even after crude oil dropped from $140 a barrel down into the $60s, the high fuel surcharges remained, and even more new fees were assessed.

boolean64

And the market appears to be bearing the price increase without the need to throw in a free bag of pretzels.

mre5765

Half care about a cookie or a preztel?

Tolerate?

Many employers require loyalty.

Many employers have preferred carriers and require their employers to fly with preferred carriers. Two of my previous employers, companies with tens of thousands of employees, have preferred carriers, hotels, and rental companies. We are expected to use these preferred suppliers even when they price out higher than a non-preferred supplier (up to a certain threshold, such as maximum airfare differential or maximum daily room rate).

Today most pax in F upgraded. So why should CO provide amenties that cost it money?

IOW, you idea is DOA.