Dec '09 UA Security Procedures-operational changes on INTERNATIONAL flights? [Merged]
Dec 27, 2009, 4:12 pm
#166
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Good luck -- it was first posted post #262 three hours ago and ignored
Dec 27, 2009, 5:21 pm
#167
Join Date: Mar 2007
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It's not what they could have done, it's what they didn't need to do.
TSA didn't really need to change anything other than watch their lists more carefully.
UA seems to have gone renegade in terms of cutting off the overhead and reading lights. TSA nowhere seems to have asked for this.
UA could probably have kept IFE. No real evidence that TSA was asking for this to be shut down.
As for the TSA, they do nothing that actually makes us safer as far as I can tell.
The best way to really prevent an attack is the way the Dutch guy did it on that flight. The same way they stopped Richard Reid.
Even without the TSA, one's chance of being killed by a terrorist is minuscule compared to driving, consuming transfat or many other mundane activities.
TSA didn't really need to change anything other than watch their lists more carefully.
UA seems to have gone renegade in terms of cutting off the overhead and reading lights. TSA nowhere seems to have asked for this.
UA could probably have kept IFE. No real evidence that TSA was asking for this to be shut down.
As for the TSA, they do nothing that actually makes us safer as far as I can tell.
- One hour in your seat. Terrorist response: Act 75 minutes before landing.
- No blankets. Terrorist response: Wear a hoodie.
- No books or magazines. Terrorist response: Loud laughter.
- No bathroom for last hour. Terrorist response: Get into the bathroom to do what you need early.
- Pat downs: Terrorist response: Cavity placements.
The best way to really prevent an attack is the way the Dutch guy did it on that flight. The same way they stopped Richard Reid.
Even without the TSA, one's chance of being killed by a terrorist is minuscule compared to driving, consuming transfat or many other mundane activities.
Last edited by l etoile; Dec 27, 2009 at 9:54 pm Reason: removed now-deleted quote
Dec 27, 2009, 6:10 pm
#168
Join Date: Sep 2009
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12/26 UA 838 NRT->SFO
IFE was not disabled, however, I received a "Customer Appreciation" email from United today, apologizing for disabling the IFE and offering me a $250 GC, 10K miles, etc.
IFE was not disabled, however, I received a "Customer Appreciation" email from United today, apologizing for disabling the IFE and offering me a $250 GC, 10K miles, etc.
Dec 27, 2009, 6:10 pm
#169
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UA tweeted a few hours ago that a fix was found for keeping the IFE running but disabling only the map.
twitter.com/unitedairlines
twitter.com/unitedairlines
Dec 27, 2009, 6:13 pm
#170
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Looks like we have a fair bit of good news!
UA just tweeted:
@techgirltx Sorry, have 2 comply w/ TSA directive. Only impacted seven or so int'l flights. Have since found a fix to keep IFE w/out GPS.
http://twitter.com/UnitedAirlines/status/7098305109
So it looks like IFE is back on but Airshow will remain off - not much you can do about Airshow - that's in DHS and TSA's hands. But at least flights should still have IFE...
UA just tweeted:
@techgirltx Sorry, have 2 comply w/ TSA directive. Only impacted seven or so int'l flights. Have since found a fix to keep IFE w/out GPS.
http://twitter.com/UnitedAirlines/status/7098305109
So it looks like IFE is back on but Airshow will remain off - not much you can do about Airshow - that's in DHS and TSA's hands. But at least flights should still have IFE...
And this is not about getting back the bad B movies UA shows. It is about the foolish and irresponsible acts by TSA in reaction to the events of Friday. Sitting an hour before landing, nothing in your lap, no IFE or GPS map. All idiotic beyond words, and guaranteed to do nothing but irritate passengers. THAT is what has most frequent flyers angry.
Dec 27, 2009, 7:00 pm
#171
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SFO
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Posts: 669
The TSA has not said anything officially, but you must read between the lines. Multiple airlines have dsabled all IFE, and multiple airlines have disabled power/lights. It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the airlines have been told to do these things.
As a result of yesterdays attempted terrorist attack on board a flight
traveling from Amsterdam to Detroit, the TSA have issued the attached
Emergency Amendment EA 1546-09-01.
This Emergency Amendment (EA) must be implemented immediately for all
flights to USA.
Summary of document is as follows:
BOARDING GATE
Must ensure all passengers and their hand luggage are screened at the
boarding gate during the boarding process.
IN FLIGHT
During flight, must ensure that the following procedures are followed:
1. Passengers must remain in seats beginning 1 hour prior to arrival at
destination.
2. Passenger access to carry-on baggage is prohibited beginning 1 hour
prior to arrival at destination.
3. Disable aircraft-integrated passenger communications systems and
services (phone, internet access services, live television programming,
global positioning systems) prior to boarding and during all phases of
flight.
4. While over U.S. airspace, flight crew may not make any announcement
to passengers concerning flight path or position over cities or landmarks.
5. Passengers may not have any blankets, pillows, or personal belongings
on the lap beginning 1 hour prior to arrival at destination.
traveling from Amsterdam to Detroit, the TSA have issued the attached
Emergency Amendment EA 1546-09-01.
This Emergency Amendment (EA) must be implemented immediately for all
flights to USA.
Summary of document is as follows:
BOARDING GATE
Must ensure all passengers and their hand luggage are screened at the
boarding gate during the boarding process.
IN FLIGHT
During flight, must ensure that the following procedures are followed:
1. Passengers must remain in seats beginning 1 hour prior to arrival at
destination.
2. Passenger access to carry-on baggage is prohibited beginning 1 hour
prior to arrival at destination.
3. Disable aircraft-integrated passenger communications systems and
services (phone, internet access services, live television programming,
global positioning systems) prior to boarding and during all phases of
flight.
4. While over U.S. airspace, flight crew may not make any announcement
to passengers concerning flight path or position over cities or landmarks.
5. Passengers may not have any blankets, pillows, or personal belongings
on the lap beginning 1 hour prior to arrival at destination.
Dec 27, 2009, 7:09 pm
#172
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Yes
Posts: 200
Dec 27, 2009, 7:12 pm
#173
Moderator: Midwest, Las Vegas & Dining Buzz
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 17,976
This thread is in the United forum to discuss United's response to the events of the last few days. The broader discussion DOES NOT belong here.
Posts have been deleted. The thread will be closed if posters don't stick to the topic at hand.
You have been notified.
iluv2fly
Moderator, UA
Posts have been deleted. The thread will be closed if posters don't stick to the topic at hand.
You have been notified.
iluv2fly
Moderator, UA
Dec 27, 2009, 7:13 pm
#174
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Silicon Valley
Programs: United Mileage Plus 1K, 2MM, LT RCC
Posts: 203
Anyone remember TWA 800? Until the so-called "terrorist" accident, positive ID was not required to get on an airplane. What happened when it was determined that it was NOT a terrorist bombing vis-a-vis positive ID? It didn't go away. Geez, I guess the airlines found a way to ensure that the person traveling was the person who bought the ticket and not someone else. Sounds like a revenue issue to me.
This whole thing may be a means to further reduce expenses: imagine not having to pay the royalties for IFE, equip a/c, etc. Not saying this is what airlines want, but heck, if that's what the government wants...
This whole thing may be a means to further reduce expenses: imagine not having to pay the royalties for IFE, equip a/c, etc. Not saying this is what airlines want, but heck, if that's what the government wants...
Dec 27, 2009, 7:27 pm
#175
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: 1A
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Posts: 3,713
Let's hope this isn't the new reality....
New, terrifying, no-electronics U.S. flight security rules?
Click here to read the article from CNET.
And on a more UA specific topic, I am curious if anyone else received the email from UA "apologizing" for the IFE disablement and crediting you with miles and/or a gift cert? Specifically, I am wondering if they sent this to everyone on international flights on 12/26, or just those in F or C? I was in F on UA 838 NRT->SFO yesterday.
New, terrifying, no-electronics U.S. flight security rules?
Click here to read the article from CNET.
And on a more UA specific topic, I am curious if anyone else received the email from UA "apologizing" for the IFE disablement and crediting you with miles and/or a gift cert? Specifically, I am wondering if they sent this to everyone on international flights on 12/26, or just those in F or C? I was in F on UA 838 NRT->SFO yesterday.
Dec 27, 2009, 7:29 pm
#176
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHL & (gasp) AVP (NEPA)
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 787
Disabling IFE/GPS as well as most of all the other "enhancements" past and present do not provide any real security but rather an illusion of security to allow the kettles to feel sufficiently safe to fly yet not be so intrusive to make them feel it isn't worth the trouble (or to offend anyone, or to be too expensive).
Last edited by l etoile; Dec 27, 2009 at 9:43 pm Reason: removed now-deleted off-topic quotes
Dec 27, 2009, 7:29 pm
#177
Join Date: Feb 2009
Programs: Star Alliance
Posts: 181
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/13063526-post107.html
Questions about #1
Are you allowed to get up in the attempt to save a passenger's life?
What should you do if you have a child with you and they must use the bathroom? I am not sure if the TSA can think that children can behave in the same manner as adults?
Question about #2
What happens if your luggage falls out of the overhead bin?
What if you are having a medical emergency and you need access to your medication?
Question about #3
How does this stop someone from blowing up a plane? Is there evidence out there that any terrorist ever used any aircraft-integrated passenger communications systems and services (phone, internet access services, live television programming,
global positioning systems) prior to boarding and during all phases of
flight to destroy or attempt to destroy a plane?
Well now I don't even have to waste my time asking if channel 9 will be on.
Question about #4
Wow! That's all I have to say! Great! Now the pilots can't tell me that the big canyon on the left is the Grand Canyon. Wait, I will miss the information when flying to and from ANC, when the weather is good and they point out the awesome glaciers and other factoids.
Question about #5
Passengers may not have any blankets, pillows, or personal belongings
on the lap beginning 1 hour prior to arrival at destination. So can I strap my Iphone to my arm as now it won't be in my lap? Better yet if I am in coach does that mean I can't have my tray down during the last hour of flight? What about babies, are they exempt from this?
I just don't get these rules? Who thought these things up? Did they ever take the time to see if the impact of these rules would stop anything? I don't see how it could stop anyone determined to do harm?
As a result of yesterdays attempted terrorist attack on board a flight
traveling from Amsterdam to Detroit, the TSA have issued the attached
Emergency Amendment EA 1546-09-01.
This Emergency Amendment (EA) must be implemented immediately for all
flights to USA.
Summary of document is as follows:
BOARDING GATE
Must ensure all passengers and their hand luggage are screened at the
boarding gate during the boarding process.
IN FLIGHT
During flight, must ensure that the following procedures are followed:
1. Passengers must remain in seats beginning 1 hour prior to arrival at
destination.
2. Passenger access to carry-on baggage is prohibited beginning 1 hour
prior to arrival at destination.
3. Disable aircraft-integrated passenger communications systems and
services (phone, internet access services, live television programming,
global positioning systems) prior to boarding and during all phases of
flight.
4. While over U.S. airspace, flight crew may not make any announcement
to passengers concerning flight path or position over cities or landmarks.
5. Passengers may not have any blankets, pillows, or personal belongings
on the lap beginning 1 hour prior to arrival at destination.
traveling from Amsterdam to Detroit, the TSA have issued the attached
Emergency Amendment EA 1546-09-01.
This Emergency Amendment (EA) must be implemented immediately for all
flights to USA.
Summary of document is as follows:
BOARDING GATE
Must ensure all passengers and their hand luggage are screened at the
boarding gate during the boarding process.
IN FLIGHT
During flight, must ensure that the following procedures are followed:
1. Passengers must remain in seats beginning 1 hour prior to arrival at
destination.
2. Passenger access to carry-on baggage is prohibited beginning 1 hour
prior to arrival at destination.
3. Disable aircraft-integrated passenger communications systems and
services (phone, internet access services, live television programming,
global positioning systems) prior to boarding and during all phases of
flight.
4. While over U.S. airspace, flight crew may not make any announcement
to passengers concerning flight path or position over cities or landmarks.
5. Passengers may not have any blankets, pillows, or personal belongings
on the lap beginning 1 hour prior to arrival at destination.
Are you allowed to get up in the attempt to save a passenger's life?
What should you do if you have a child with you and they must use the bathroom? I am not sure if the TSA can think that children can behave in the same manner as adults?
Question about #2
What happens if your luggage falls out of the overhead bin?
What if you are having a medical emergency and you need access to your medication?
Question about #3
How does this stop someone from blowing up a plane? Is there evidence out there that any terrorist ever used any aircraft-integrated passenger communications systems and services (phone, internet access services, live television programming,
global positioning systems) prior to boarding and during all phases of
flight to destroy or attempt to destroy a plane?
Well now I don't even have to waste my time asking if channel 9 will be on.
Question about #4
Wow! That's all I have to say! Great! Now the pilots can't tell me that the big canyon on the left is the Grand Canyon. Wait, I will miss the information when flying to and from ANC, when the weather is good and they point out the awesome glaciers and other factoids.
Question about #5
Passengers may not have any blankets, pillows, or personal belongings
on the lap beginning 1 hour prior to arrival at destination. So can I strap my Iphone to my arm as now it won't be in my lap? Better yet if I am in coach does that mean I can't have my tray down during the last hour of flight? What about babies, are they exempt from this?
I just don't get these rules? Who thought these things up? Did they ever take the time to see if the impact of these rules would stop anything? I don't see how it could stop anyone determined to do harm?
Dec 27, 2009, 7:31 pm
#178
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,047
Let's hope this isn't the new reality....
New, terrifying, no-electronics U.S. flight security rules?
Click here to read the article from CNET.
And on a more UA specific topic, I am curious if anyone else received the email from UA "apologizing" for the IFE disablement and crediting you with miles and/or a gift cert? Specifically, I am wondering if they sent this to everyone on international flights on 12/26, or just those in F or C? I was in F on UA 838 NRT->SFO yesterday.
New, terrifying, no-electronics U.S. flight security rules?
Click here to read the article from CNET.
And on a more UA specific topic, I am curious if anyone else received the email from UA "apologizing" for the IFE disablement and crediting you with miles and/or a gift cert? Specifically, I am wondering if they sent this to everyone on international flights on 12/26, or just those in F or C? I was in F on UA 838 NRT->SFO yesterday.
1) The TSA memo they quote doesnt even say anything about electronics.
2) there are numerous reports on this thread and others that contradict this article. At least on UA flights the restriction seems to be on stuff connected to airshow.
Dec 27, 2009, 7:31 pm
#179
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Washington DC
Programs: Former 1k, Lifetime UA Gold, Starwood Gold; Avis Preferred; Hertz Gold
Posts: 1,732
This thread is in the United forum to discuss United's response to the events of the last few days. The broader discussion DOES NOT belong here.
Posts have been deleted. The thread will be closed if posters don't stick to the topic at hand.
You have been notified.
iluv2fly
Moderator, UA
Posts have been deleted. The thread will be closed if posters don't stick to the topic at hand.
You have been notified.
iluv2fly
Moderator, UA
Dec 27, 2009, 7:43 pm
#180
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: SNA
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Posts: 25,228