... how do we fight back to UAL's latest devaluation of our points
#46
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC, LON
Programs: *
Posts: 2,865
And an express violation of the terms and conditions of the MileagePlus program, which we all agreed to....
#47
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 5,065
There's Nothing You Can Do
Honestly, nothing any of us does will slow the grinding wheels of devaluation. Their business model requires devaluation. Eventually, most mileage redemptions will be significantly below a penny per mile. Already, any place that I want to go has no availability for less than 300K miles each way for routings on which I can buy a rt for cash for 6K or less (and my domestic segments will be in F-something which never happens anymore for me on UA awards or PPs UGs with a domestic segment).
Sure, I see last-minute awards that are more reasonable regularly. Unfortunately, I run a business and just can't drop everything to fly somewhere just to try and get some value out of my miles. If it comes to that, I'll just donate them all.
Sure, I see last-minute awards that are more reasonable regularly. Unfortunately, I run a business and just can't drop everything to fly somewhere just to try and get some value out of my miles. If it comes to that, I'll just donate them all.
#48
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Houston, TX
Programs: UA silver, Bonvoy gold
Posts: 2,863
Honestly, nothing any of us does will slow the grinding wheels of devaluation. Their business model requires devaluation. Eventually, most mileage redemptions will be significantly below a penny per mile. Already, any place that I want to go has no availability for less than 300K miles each way for routings on which I can buy a rt for cash for 6K or less (and my domestic segments will be in F-something which never happens anymore for me on UA awards or PPs UGs with a domestic segment).
Sure, I see last-minute awards that are more reasonable regularly. Unfortunately, I run a business and just can't drop everything to fly somewhere just to try and get some value out of my miles. If it comes to that, I'll just donate them all.
Sure, I see last-minute awards that are more reasonable regularly. Unfortunately, I run a business and just can't drop everything to fly somewhere just to try and get some value out of my miles. If it comes to that, I'll just donate them all.
It's just that the ticket prices will rise, requiring far more miles
#49
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: None - previously UA
Posts: 4,930
#50
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 813
I find it weird that people still chase these things.
30 years ago when these miles were newish there were plenty of arbitrage opportunities. The miles produced outsized returns in many cases, and there was plenty of value.
Now? It is like people still think the airlines have to give us something for nothing. That shipped sailed a LONG time ago. Airlines know that the vast majority of people have no idea how the program works, and that the vocal minority that do are out of options when it comes to carrier choice.
The DL issue recently was particularly insightful. DL raised the diamond threshold to 28k (they wanted 35k). The flat out said there were too many diamonds. Yet the entire DL forum here erupted with anger. Sure DL lowered the threshold, but they never said they would accept the elevated level of diamond. In effect, they delayed the inevitable. And people actually went back to DL because they were hub captive. The people that got burned by the DL action were the ones flying the bare minimum to get to PL and then spending 25k on a credit card. Not exactly HVF material. Yet this was the vocal minority that drove much of the backlash.
Bottom line here is if you spend enough with a carrier they will give you plenty. GS/360/CK or whatever is available to every single person alive. We have to spend 50k+ on a carrier to get it though.
30 years ago when these miles were newish there were plenty of arbitrage opportunities. The miles produced outsized returns in many cases, and there was plenty of value.
Now? It is like people still think the airlines have to give us something for nothing. That shipped sailed a LONG time ago. Airlines know that the vast majority of people have no idea how the program works, and that the vocal minority that do are out of options when it comes to carrier choice.
The DL issue recently was particularly insightful. DL raised the diamond threshold to 28k (they wanted 35k). The flat out said there were too many diamonds. Yet the entire DL forum here erupted with anger. Sure DL lowered the threshold, but they never said they would accept the elevated level of diamond. In effect, they delayed the inevitable. And people actually went back to DL because they were hub captive. The people that got burned by the DL action were the ones flying the bare minimum to get to PL and then spending 25k on a credit card. Not exactly HVF material. Yet this was the vocal minority that drove much of the backlash.
Bottom line here is if you spend enough with a carrier they will give you plenty. GS/360/CK or whatever is available to every single person alive. We have to spend 50k+ on a carrier to get it though.
#51
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 659
My point is that UA will feel a greater impact if UA cardholders cancel their cards (or at least stop using them), regardless of the relationship between its main business and its credit card business. Moreover, if Chase feels the impact, it surely will raise the issue with UA and it has a lot more leverage.
#52
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: WAS
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Gold, IHG Silver, Hilton Silver, Hertz PC, National Exec Elite, Avis PC
Posts: 1,316
Miles earned are now based on spend and mileage redemptions are tied to ticket price, so assuming that inflation and fuel costs continue to rise, further devaluation seems inevitable. I am happy with Amex so far, and I also use Prime Visa for cash back. But that said, I am still giving business Amex and Chase, probably the two largest credit card companies offering airline/hotel cards, so they are still winning in the long run.
![Confused](https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif)
#53
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Raddison Platinum, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 5,375
As someone who would barely make 1K in the past, I would never use miles unless I knew I had enough to reach my goal. That leaves me sitting on approx 2M rdm. If I include the "lost value" of the RDM, the "cost" of achieving 1K all these years is far higher.
My advice, use miles as fast as possible. Use CC for the benefits you want and thats all. (ie. GE reimbursement)
My advice, use miles as fast as possible. Use CC for the benefits you want and thats all. (ie. GE reimbursement)
#54
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2023
Programs: United 1k American Platinum select Marriott Titanium Hilton Gold
Posts: 38
My thoughts exactly. Every move he has made is degrading the system.
#55
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2023
Programs: United 1k American Platinum select Marriott Titanium Hilton Gold
Posts: 38
As someone who would barely make 1K in the past, I would never use miles unless I knew I had enough to reach my goal. That leaves me sitting on approx 2M rdm. If I include the "lost value" of the RDM, the "cost" of achieving 1K all these years is far higher.
My advice, use miles as fast as possible. Use CC for the benefits you want and thats all. (ie. GE reimbursement)
My advice, use miles as fast as possible. Use CC for the benefits you want and thats all. (ie. GE reimbursement)
#56
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2023
Programs: United 1k American Platinum select Marriott Titanium Hilton Gold
Posts: 38
Honestly, nothing any of us does will slow the grinding wheels of devaluation. Their business model requires devaluation. Eventually, most mileage redemptions will be significantly below a penny per mile. Already, any place that I want to go has no availability for less than 300K miles each way for routings on which I can buy a rt for cash for 6K or less (and my domestic segments will be in F-something which never happens anymore for me on UA awards or PPs UGs with a domestic segment).
Sure, I see last-minute awards that are more reasonable regularly. Unfortunately, I run a business and just can't drop everything to fly somewhere just to try and get some value out of my miles. If it comes to that, I'll just donate them all.
Sure, I see last-minute awards that are more reasonable regularly. Unfortunately, I run a business and just can't drop everything to fly somewhere just to try and get some value out of my miles. If it comes to that, I'll just donate them all.
#57
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: CLE
Programs: UA GS+LT UC, AA EXP+LT PLT, Fairmont LT PLT, Marriott PLT, Hilton DIA, Hyatt Glob, Avis CHM
Posts: 4,685
I find it weird that people still chase these things.
30 years ago when these miles were newish there were plenty of arbitrage opportunities. The miles produced outsized returns in many cases, and there was plenty of value.
Now? It is like people still think the airlines have to give us something for nothing. That shipped sailed a LONG time ago. Airlines know that the vast majority of people have no idea how the program works, and that the vocal minority that do are out of options when it comes to carrier choice.
The DL issue recently was particularly insightful. DL raised the diamond threshold to 28k (they wanted 35k). The flat out said there were too many diamonds. Yet the entire DL forum here erupted with anger. Sure DL lowered the threshold, but they never said they would accept the elevated level of diamond. In effect, they delayed the inevitable. And people actually went back to DL because they were hub captive. The people that got burned by the DL action were the ones flying the bare minimum to get to PL and then spending 25k on a credit card. Not exactly HVF material. Yet this was the vocal minority that drove much of the backlash.
Bottom line here is if you spend enough with a carrier they will give you plenty. GS/360/CK or whatever is available to every single person alive. We have to spend 50k+ on a carrier to get it though.
30 years ago when these miles were newish there were plenty of arbitrage opportunities. The miles produced outsized returns in many cases, and there was plenty of value.
Now? It is like people still think the airlines have to give us something for nothing. That shipped sailed a LONG time ago. Airlines know that the vast majority of people have no idea how the program works, and that the vocal minority that do are out of options when it comes to carrier choice.
The DL issue recently was particularly insightful. DL raised the diamond threshold to 28k (they wanted 35k). The flat out said there were too many diamonds. Yet the entire DL forum here erupted with anger. Sure DL lowered the threshold, but they never said they would accept the elevated level of diamond. In effect, they delayed the inevitable. And people actually went back to DL because they were hub captive. The people that got burned by the DL action were the ones flying the bare minimum to get to PL and then spending 25k on a credit card. Not exactly HVF material. Yet this was the vocal minority that drove much of the backlash.
Bottom line here is if you spend enough with a carrier they will give you plenty. GS/360/CK or whatever is available to every single person alive. We have to spend 50k+ on a carrier to get it though.
#58
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: IAD
Programs: UA 1K & 2MM, MR Titanium
Posts: 472
I find it weird that people still chase these things.
30 years ago when these miles were newish there were plenty of arbitrage opportunities. The miles produced outsized returns in many cases, and there was plenty of value.
Now? It is like people still think the airlines have to give us something for nothing. That shipped sailed a LONG time ago. Airlines know that the vast majority of people have no idea how the program works, and that the vocal minority that do are out of options when it comes to carrier choice.
The DL issue recently was particularly insightful. DL raised the diamond threshold to 28k (they wanted 35k). The flat out said there were too many diamonds. Yet the entire DL forum here erupted with anger. Sure DL lowered the threshold, but they never said they would accept the elevated level of diamond. In effect, they delayed the inevitable. And people actually went back to DL because they were hub captive. The people that got burned by the DL action were the ones flying the bare minimum to get to PL and then spending 25k on a credit card. Not exactly HVF material. Yet this was the vocal minority that drove much of the backlash.
Bottom line here is if you spend enough with a carrier they will give you plenty. GS/360/CK or whatever is available to every single person alive. We have to spend 50k+ on a carrier to get it though.
30 years ago when these miles were newish there were plenty of arbitrage opportunities. The miles produced outsized returns in many cases, and there was plenty of value.
Now? It is like people still think the airlines have to give us something for nothing. That shipped sailed a LONG time ago. Airlines know that the vast majority of people have no idea how the program works, and that the vocal minority that do are out of options when it comes to carrier choice.
The DL issue recently was particularly insightful. DL raised the diamond threshold to 28k (they wanted 35k). The flat out said there were too many diamonds. Yet the entire DL forum here erupted with anger. Sure DL lowered the threshold, but they never said they would accept the elevated level of diamond. In effect, they delayed the inevitable. And people actually went back to DL because they were hub captive. The people that got burned by the DL action were the ones flying the bare minimum to get to PL and then spending 25k on a credit card. Not exactly HVF material. Yet this was the vocal minority that drove much of the backlash.
Bottom line here is if you spend enough with a carrier they will give you plenty. GS/360/CK or whatever is available to every single person alive. We have to spend 50k+ on a carrier to get it though.
One side note, I have a bunch of DL miles accrued 30+ years ago (some actually PA miles that were transferred to my DL account when PA went out of business). I sat on those miles (actually forgot about them) as DL devalued over the years and figured I might never use them. This year, I suddenly realized that DL offers some very attractive domestic redemptions (under 5,000 miles) for domestic short haul and booked a few (basic economy, since I am not chasing DL status). At that rate, my stash of DL miles will provide 5+ years of attractive short haul redemptions when UA is too expensive or not as convenient. So even Sky Pesos are working for me!
Last edited by lotemblizej; May 22, 2024 at 9:39 am
#59
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: United Arab Emirates & Arizona, USA
Programs: UA MM/1P, EK Au, QR, TK, Marriott Life Ti, Hilton Dia, IC Dia, Hyatt Glob, Accor Pt, Shangri-La
Posts: 4,546
Honestly, nothing any of us does will slow the grinding wheels of devaluation. Their business model requires devaluation. Eventually, most mileage redemptions will be significantly below a penny per mile. Already, any place that I want to go has no availability for less than 300K miles each way for routings on which I can buy a rt for cash for 6K or less (and my domestic segments will be in F-something which never happens anymore for me on UA awards or PPs UGs with a domestic segment).
Sure, I see last-minute awards that are more reasonable regularly. Unfortunately, I run a business and just can't drop everything to fly somewhere just to try and get some value out of my miles. If it comes to that, I'll just donate them all.
Sure, I see last-minute awards that are more reasonable regularly. Unfortunately, I run a business and just can't drop everything to fly somewhere just to try and get some value out of my miles. If it comes to that, I'll just donate them all.
#60
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: UA GS, Hyatt LT G, Marriott LT T
Posts: 274
I canceled my UA quest card. it is annoying UA devalue its partner award chart without early announcement. Long time before, UA changed its way to release saver award for its metal. But partner award value is still decent. Now, almost all are gone except Japan domestic flight. Event it is not worth to redeem saver award upgraded by GS plus point.Ten years ago, I bought millions of UA miles @2 cents through booking. Now, I did not buy its miles for almost 7 years.
The most effective way is to cancel its credit card since mile devalue a lot.
The most effective way is to cancel its credit card since mile devalue a lot.