Jan 6, 2024, 6:34 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
https://liveandletsfly.com/united-airlines-flight-attendants-jumpseat-rule
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United Airlines is implementing a new rule for flight attendants that will lead to cabins being prepared for landing earlier than at present in an effort to protect them from injury from turbulence.
... Thus, starting next month flight attendants will more quickly clean and secure the cabins at the top of the descent. A pilot will say, Flight attendants, please prepare the cabin for landing above 10,000 feet, giving flight attendants time to make final cabin preparation in order to be strapped into their jumpseats ahead of the double chime.
... Thus, starting next month flight attendants will more quickly clean and secure the cabins at the top of the descent. A pilot will say, Flight attendants, please prepare the cabin for landing above 10,000 feet, giving flight attendants time to make final cabin preparation in order to be strapped into their jumpseats ahead of the double chime.
My vacation ended, and I'm back at one. (It's okay, I'm sitting on my balcony on a nice, Caribbean island). I talked to my cabin crew today and got an update on their procedure.
The initial bulletin to the F/As had wording which caused some confusion. It has been revised.
Initially, many F/As understood that they were to do the new combined Initial/Final announcement and cabin preparations when the seatbelt sign came on for the final time. That has since been clarified that it is to be done when the pilot makes the "prepare the cabin for arrival" announcement.
On the 737, I do that approximately five minutes before the 10,000' double-chime, all else being equal. The goal is for all cabin preparations to be complete by the 10,000' double-chime.
The initial bulletin to the F/As had wording which caused some confusion. It has been revised.
Initially, many F/As understood that they were to do the new combined Initial/Final announcement and cabin preparations when the seatbelt sign came on for the final time. That has since been clarified that it is to be done when the pilot makes the "prepare the cabin for arrival" announcement.
On the 737, I do that approximately five minutes before the 10,000' double-chime, all else being equal. The goal is for all cabin preparations to be complete by the 10,000' double-chime.
United Airlines Implements New Rule To Protect Flight Attendants
Nov 17, 2023, 1:38 pm
#32
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I don't see this changing anything at all. The good FAs will still be good FAs, and will continue to provide excellent service. The lazy FAs will still be lazy FAs, only now they have a policy to point at to justify some of their laziness.
Nov 17, 2023, 2:00 pm
#34
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From UA partner Austrian Airlines e-mail today: meals on 80+-minute flights.
I like PG's new take on IFE: "Their FAs are often getting into their jumpsuits mere minutes from landing."
I like PG's new take on IFE: "Their FAs are often getting into their jumpsuits mere minutes from landing."
Spell check, the bane of my existence because I work in a scientific field, doesn't like the word "jumpseat".
Nov 17, 2023, 3:43 pm
#35
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The early cabin preparations with 45 min still left in flight are super inconvenient from a passenger standpoint, especially when trying to get work done. Is this really for safety, or just another excuse to provide even less service? On flights the distance of say ORD-CLE, flight attendants might not even get up at this point.
Nov 17, 2023, 3:45 pm
#36
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Nov 17, 2023, 4:16 pm
#37
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As someone who expects nothing of UA and their, "Worst In The US", service culture, I'll still buy tickets on UA so long as they have the cheapest F/J fares on any given day. I end up taking my own drinks and food onboard now anyway so that I don't have to deal with the inconsistent service and poor quality, so it's no skin off my nose, but the new policy has nothing to do with safety.
Last edited by zombietooth; Nov 19, 2023 at 11:33 pm
Nov 17, 2023, 4:33 pm
#38
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As of right now, we've received no information on this new policy. The only thing I've seen is the information in the article linked above.
Turbulence injuries have been a hot topic for that past 5+ years. Pre-pandemic, we were shown a stat for F/A turbulence injuries which were averaging almost one injury per day. At that point, we had a bid push for F/A turbulence safety and implemented new procedures for pilot<>F/A communication. That was the "F/As take your jumpseats" "F/As be seated immediately, be seated immediately" and "F/As check in" announcements were implemented. Turbulence is part of the crew briefing that the Captain gives before every flight. We see these turbulence scenarios at almost every simulator training event and it appears frequently in our recurrent training modules.
Our Denver hub is probably part of the reason for this focus because of the common turbulence along the front range.
We have a number of relatively new tools for turbulence forecasting and real-time reporting. RPM turbulence forecasts, SIGMETS, FPG turbulence forecasts, PIREPS, TAPS, Skypath, and ATC. Very frequently, these products produce turbulence models which disagree with each other based on the different methods used by each product to make their forecast. We take the combination of these resources, combined with our experience, and do our best to give the smoothest ride and to ensure the passengers and F/As are seated when we enter areas where we suspect there might be significant turbulence. The less confident we are in the data, the more cautious we will be.
It is already common for a Captain to delay letting the F/As up after takeoff and seating them early on approach.
Going just by the information in the article, it doesn't sound like it will be a big change. 10,000' is just a few minutes from landing at most airports. Having the F/As seated at 10,000', instead of beginning their final preparations at 10,000' shouldn't cut the service by more than 5 minutes in most cases. Will have to wait and see what the new procedures require.
Turbulence injuries have been a hot topic for that past 5+ years. Pre-pandemic, we were shown a stat for F/A turbulence injuries which were averaging almost one injury per day. At that point, we had a bid push for F/A turbulence safety and implemented new procedures for pilot<>F/A communication. That was the "F/As take your jumpseats" "F/As be seated immediately, be seated immediately" and "F/As check in" announcements were implemented. Turbulence is part of the crew briefing that the Captain gives before every flight. We see these turbulence scenarios at almost every simulator training event and it appears frequently in our recurrent training modules.
Our Denver hub is probably part of the reason for this focus because of the common turbulence along the front range.
We have a number of relatively new tools for turbulence forecasting and real-time reporting. RPM turbulence forecasts, SIGMETS, FPG turbulence forecasts, PIREPS, TAPS, Skypath, and ATC. Very frequently, these products produce turbulence models which disagree with each other based on the different methods used by each product to make their forecast. We take the combination of these resources, combined with our experience, and do our best to give the smoothest ride and to ensure the passengers and F/As are seated when we enter areas where we suspect there might be significant turbulence. The less confident we are in the data, the more cautious we will be.
It is already common for a Captain to delay letting the F/As up after takeoff and seating them early on approach.
Going just by the information in the article, it doesn't sound like it will be a big change. 10,000' is just a few minutes from landing at most airports. Having the F/As seated at 10,000', instead of beginning their final preparations at 10,000' shouldn't cut the service by more than 5 minutes in most cases. Will have to wait and see what the new procedures require.
Nov 17, 2023, 5:09 pm
#39
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I understand the reason for the policy and it makes sense it would reduce injuries. However, I wonder how much more effective this will be. I would think it is already covered by the captain letting the crew know to get up later or sit down earlier based on his data.
On many foreign airlines, europe/asia, the seat belt sign usually goes off at 10000ft and the carts start coming out where in the us, it's not until we reach cruising altitude. I've often wondered if this means there are less injuries in the US than other countries.
Usually on those flights, the FA will announce no service (not even water) and just stay seated. But I've had more motivated FAs serve water and snacks to 50 people in 15min
On many foreign airlines, europe/asia, the seat belt sign usually goes off at 10000ft and the carts start coming out where in the us, it's not until we reach cruising altitude. I've often wondered if this means there are less injuries in the US than other countries.
Usually on those flights, the FA will announce no service (not even water) and just stay seated. But I've had more motivated FAs serve water and snacks to 50 people in 15min
Nov 17, 2023, 5:43 pm
#40
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It's amazing how other airlines around the world can do a full meal service in Y on a 45 minute flight, FA's not having to be constrained to their seats for turbulence that never happens etc. Is it just that the US is SO litigious that they cannot risk anything? A flight from Toyko last week and the captain informed that the FA's would be seated before we started taxiing. There was some light chop about 25 minutes in, but nothing else. Didn't even start service for over an hour which resulted in a lovely 3 hour dinner service. I'll never forget when I flew Thai many years ago on the BKK-LAX nonstop..... circa 2007.... the turbulence was moderate, at the very least. I was woken from my sleep and not even the seatbelt sign was turned on. I don't fly other US airlines that often so wonder if the "overreaction" is the same on those as well?
Nov 17, 2023, 5:46 pm
#41
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It's amazing how other airlines around the world can do a full meal service in Y on a 45 minute flight, FA's not having to be constrained to their seats for turbulence that never happens etc. Is it just that the US is SO litigious that they cannot risk anything? A flight from Toyko last week and the captain informed that the FA's would be seated before we started taxiing. There was some light chop about 25 minutes in, but nothing else. Didn't even start service for over an hour which resulted in a lovely 3 hour dinner service. I'll never forget when I flew Thai many years ago on the BKK-LAX nonstop..... circa 2007.... the turbulence was moderate, at the very least. I was woken from my sleep and not even the seatbelt sign was turned on. I don't fly other US airlines that often so wonder if the "overreaction" is the same on those as well?
Nov 17, 2023, 7:56 pm
#43
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AC implemented a similar policy a couple years ago. 30 minutes to landing, which is often TOD. That's when they lock up the bar and start doing cleanup. But they can sure be in their jumpseats by 10k feet.
Nov 17, 2023, 8:25 pm
#44
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It's amazing how other airlines around the world can do a full meal service in Y on a 45 minute flight, FA's not having to be constrained to their seats for turbulence that never happens etc. Is it just that the US is SO litigious that they cannot risk anything? A flight from Toyko last week and the captain informed that the FA's would be seated before we started taxiing. There was some light chop about 25 minutes in, but nothing else. Didn't even start service for over an hour which resulted in a lovely 3 hour dinner service. I'll never forget when I flew Thai many years ago on the BKK-LAX nonstop..... circa 2007.... the turbulence was moderate, at the very least. I was woken from my sleep and not even the seatbelt sign was turned on. I don't fly other US airlines that often so wonder if the "overreaction" is the same on those as well?
Let's wait and see what this brings. I already a noticed a change in EWR-DCA flights where more often FAs are seated for the entire flight. Used to be this was somewhat rare, but not in the last 18 months or so.
Anyway, this does not sound as bad as the Mainland China airlines' rules. At 45 minutes prior to landing they clean up the cabin and are seated around 35-40 minutes before landing. On the short hops in China there is not even a beverage service, either. We have to recognize that on FT we compare airlines on specific points to airlines which are better, we almost never compare to airlines which are worse.
Nov 18, 2023, 6:46 am
#45
Join Date: Jun 2022
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Not sure why youre making this personal by inferring someone is a crybaby. As I frequently remind people in real life, Its not personal, its just business.
My money is limited as is (almost) everyones, and I have to decide where its worth spending. If the service on UA drops to where I feel like its no longer worth spending the extra money for F, then its totally reasonable for me not to spend the money. And I get to decide what level of service is worth spending my money on. Not angry, not crying, nothing personal in it, just business. Same as anything else, like if a restaurant doesnt provide me a meal I think is worth the money, I wont go back. Its not personal, its just business.
Not sure why youd imply anyone owes United their business and that theyre a crybaby if they dont like changes in a product.
My money is limited as is (almost) everyones, and I have to decide where its worth spending. If the service on UA drops to where I feel like its no longer worth spending the extra money for F, then its totally reasonable for me not to spend the money. And I get to decide what level of service is worth spending my money on. Not angry, not crying, nothing personal in it, just business. Same as anything else, like if a restaurant doesnt provide me a meal I think is worth the money, I wont go back. Its not personal, its just business.
Not sure why youd imply anyone owes United their business and that theyre a crybaby if they dont like changes in a product.