Jan 4, 2021, 1:37 am
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread, the archive thread is https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1960195-b737max-cleared-faa-resume-passenger-flights-when-will-ua-max-flights-resume.html
Thread Topic
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
United does not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it does operate the 737 MAX 9.
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:
View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.
The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.
For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.
All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) are currently grounded.
Thread Topic
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
READ BEFORE POSTING
Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.
Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...
As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.
The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.
Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.
Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...
As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.
The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.
Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
This thread has engendered some strongly felt opinions and a great tendency to wander into many peripherally related topics. By all normal FT moderation standards, this thread would have been permanently closed long ago ( and numerous members receiving disciplinary actions).
However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.
Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.
The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).
Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.
Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.
The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).
Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
United does not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it does operate the 737 MAX 9.
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:
View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.
The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.
For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.
All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) are currently grounded.
B737MAX Recertification - Archive
Apr 25, 2019, 2:19 pm
#1261
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,866
“The Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) flight control law was designed and certified for the 737 MAX to enhance the pitch stability of the airplane – so that it feels and flies like other 737s.”
Boeing: The 737 MAX MCAS Software Enhancement
Apr 25, 2019, 2:46 pm
#1262
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 8,185
The handling characteristic that MCAS addresses is the pitch feel at very high angles-of-attack. The pitch feel is lighter which could lead a pilot, accustom to the pitch feel of the 737 NG, to over-control and apply too much nose-up elevator input. MCAS provides a nose-down bias, through the input of nose-down stabilizer trim, to produce a pitch feel that is similar to the 737 NG.
The relaxed stability systems, that are used on some airplanes, reduce the static stability around the lateral axis (pitch) by moving the aircraft's CG aft. This reduces the moment-arm between the CG and center-of-lift (CL) which reduces both drag and stability. This is done during all phases of flight, or during high-speed and cruise flight, so as to maximize the benefit from the reduced drag. Such an airplane would be difficult to fly due to the constant need to correct pitch so stability augmentation systems are needed.
The 737 does not use a relaxed stability system, such as what you described in your post titled "Relaxed Static Stability (RSS)".
The MAX's heavier engines, positioned farther forward, would tend to produce a more stable aircraft, all else equal, due to the more forward CG location. The lighter pitch feel at high AoA comes from the larger nacelles producing more lift in those non-normal situations. It is not a condition that the airplane would experience during normal operations. It is not a feature that was designed in to increase efficiency as is a relaxed stability system.
Apr 27, 2019, 12:54 am
#1263
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,866
Do They Need to Do a D Check For Each Max?
"(CNN)The day after Ethiopia's minister of transportation released a preliminary crash report on Ethiopian Airlines flight 302, four Boeing employees called an Federal Aviation Administration whistleblower hotline that allows employees and the public to report aviation safety issues. .........."
"Among the complaints is a previously unreported issue involving damage to the wiring of the angle of attack sensor by a foreign object, according to the source."
"Boeing has reportedly had previous issues with foreign object debris in its manufacturing process; The New York Times reported metal shavings were found near wiring of Boeing 787 Dreamliner planes, and the Air Force stopped deliveries of the Boeing KC-46 tanker after foreign object debris was found in some of the planes coming off the production line."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/26/polit...rts/index.html
"Among the complaints is a previously unreported issue involving damage to the wiring of the angle of attack sensor by a foreign object, according to the source."
"Boeing has reportedly had previous issues with foreign object debris in its manufacturing process; The New York Times reported metal shavings were found near wiring of Boeing 787 Dreamliner planes, and the Air Force stopped deliveries of the Boeing KC-46 tanker after foreign object debris was found in some of the planes coming off the production line."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/26/polit...rts/index.html
Last edited by BF263533; Apr 27, 2019 at 1:16 am Reason: Add KC 46 info
Apr 27, 2019, 8:36 am
#1264
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
"(CNN)The day after Ethiopia's minister of transportation released a preliminary crash report on Ethiopian Airlines flight 302, four Boeing employees called an Federal Aviation Administration whistleblower hotline that allows employees and the public to report aviation safety issues. .........."
"Among the complaints is a previously unreported issue involving damage to the wiring of the angle of attack sensor by a foreign object, according to the source."
"Boeing has reportedly had previous issues with foreign object debris in its manufacturing process; The New York Times reported metal shavings were found near wiring of Boeing 787 Dreamliner planes, and the Air Force stopped deliveries of the Boeing KC-46 tanker after foreign object debris was found in some of the planes coming off the production line."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/26/polit...rts/index.html
"Among the complaints is a previously unreported issue involving damage to the wiring of the angle of attack sensor by a foreign object, according to the source."
"Boeing has reportedly had previous issues with foreign object debris in its manufacturing process; The New York Times reported metal shavings were found near wiring of Boeing 787 Dreamliner planes, and the Air Force stopped deliveries of the Boeing KC-46 tanker after foreign object debris was found in some of the planes coming off the production line."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/26/polit...rts/index.html
Do you even know what a D Check is?
Apr 27, 2019, 9:07 am
#1265
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 233
The CNN article is basically just an aggregation of three clickbait articles. No new information; just lazy journalism.
Apr 27, 2019, 11:08 am
#1266
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,694
Apr 29, 2019, 2:39 pm
#1267
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: AA Gold AAdvantage Elite, Rapids Reward
Posts: 38,335
How long the 737-MAX9 grounding? When they will put back in service?
Apr 29, 2019, 2:49 pm
#1268
Moderator: Budget Travel forum & Credit Card Programs, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYJ/YVR and back on Van Isle ....... for now
Programs: UA lifetime MM / *A Gold
Posts: 14,429
Apr 29, 2019, 3:47 pm
#1269
Join Date: May 2005
Location: BTW/WAOC
Programs: QR Platinum, UA Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 265
They are talking about stability in a different context.
The handling characteristic that MCAS addresses is the pitch feel at very high angles-of-attack. The pitch feel is lighter which could lead a pilot, accustom to the pitch feel of the 737 NG, to over-control and apply too much nose-up elevator input. MCAS provides a nose-down bias, through the input of nose-down stabilizer trim, to produce a pitch feel that is similar to the 737 NG.
.
The handling characteristic that MCAS addresses is the pitch feel at very high angles-of-attack. The pitch feel is lighter which could lead a pilot, accustom to the pitch feel of the 737 NG, to over-control and apply too much nose-up elevator input. MCAS provides a nose-down bias, through the input of nose-down stabilizer trim, to produce a pitch feel that is similar to the 737 NG.
.
Apr 29, 2019, 5:13 pm
#1270
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: EUG
Programs: UA Silver, AS
Posts: 115
You cannot turn off MCAS by itself. You can only turn off electric stab trim, which is used in many other situations completely unrelated to MCAS. I think it would be quite a large inconvenience to do manual trim all the time.
Apr 29, 2019, 6:42 pm
#1271
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Programs: Sometimes known as [ARG:6 UNDEFINED]
Posts: 26,707
So, again: What's this thing good for?
Apr 29, 2019, 9:38 pm
#1272
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,694
And the first hit....
Garuda Airlines (Indonesia) cancels Order for 49 MAX, saying they have "low confidence" in the airplane.... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.68d185aa3def
First of many I would expect to be coming....
And the MAX10 is the worst dog of them all, and its not even launched.
Garuda Airlines (Indonesia) cancels Order for 49 MAX, saying they have "low confidence" in the airplane.... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.68d185aa3def
First of many I would expect to be coming....
And the MAX10 is the worst dog of them all, and its not even launched.
"We will replace the orders with Boeing's Max 10s and 787s," Garuda President Ari Ashkara told the Nikkei Asian Review on Wednesday.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Apr 29, 2019 at 10:14 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
Apr 30, 2019, 6:59 am
#1273
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Programs: Sometimes known as [ARG:6 UNDEFINED]
Posts: 26,707
Apr 30, 2019, 7:14 am
#1274
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
The question has been asked and answered multiple times. It is apparent that you either do not understand, or are not satisfied with, the answer.
Apr 30, 2019, 9:04 am
#1275
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Programs: Sometimes known as [ARG:6 UNDEFINED]
Posts: 26,707