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B737MAX-Cleared by FAA to resume passenger flights;UA MAX flights resumed 11 Feb 2020

B737MAX-Cleared by FAA to resume passenger flights;UA MAX flights resumed 11 Feb 2020

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Old Mar 6, 21, 11:41 am   -   Wikipost
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Last edit by: WineCountryUA
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The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.

Now that UA MAX flights have resumed, see UA statement at All about the Boeing 737 MAX: Safety, status and more
If you do not wish to fly on a MAX aircraft, we will rebook you at no charge or refund your ticket. This includes domestic ticket changes, Basic Economy tickets and international tickets if you move from one of our MAX flights to one of our non-MAX United or United Express flights. If your original itinerary involved another carrier, we will attempt to rebook you on your original airline on a non-MAX flight as well.

When we begin to fly the MAX once again, you should feel completely confident that we have taken all the necessary steps to confirm that our 737 MAX aircraft are as safe as any of our aircraft flying today. Safety has been and always will be our top priority, and its something we will never compromise for any reason.
We will waive any applicable change fees or difference in fare if your rebooked flight:
  • Has the same origin and destination as your original flight
  • Is in your originally ticketed cabin (any booking code)
  • Is rescheduled for the same day or one day earlier or later than your original travel date
  • Is a United or United Express flight only
If your original itinerary involves another carrier, we will rebook you on your original airline, and your ticket must be rebooked in the same booking code on the same routing.

If you dont meet these conditions but still want to rebook, you may use the value of your ticket to rebook on another flight without a change fee, but a fare difference may apply based on the fare rules of the ticket.

Originally Posted by WineCountryUA View Post
READ BEFORE POSTING

Once again many posters in this thread have forgotten the FT rules and resorted to "Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming " and other non-collegial, non-civil discourse. This is not allowed.

Posters appear to be talking at others, talking about others, not discussing the core issues. Repeating the same statements, saying the same thing LOUDER is not civil discourse. These problems are not with one poster, they are not just one point of view, ...

As useful as some discussion here has been, continuing rules violations will lead to suspensions and thread closure. Please think about that before posting.

The purpose of FT is to be an informative forum that, in this case, enables the UA flyer to enhance their travel experience. There are other forums for different types of discussions. This thread was had wide latitude but that latitude is being abused.

Bottom line, if you can not stay within the FT rules and the forum's topic areas, please do not post.
And before posting, ask if you are bringing new contributing information to the discussion -- not just repeating previous points, then please do not post.

WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Originally Posted by WineCountryUA View Post
This thread has engendered some strongly felt opinions and a great tendency to wander into many peripherally related topics. By all normal FT moderation standards, this thread would have been permanently closed long ago ( and numerous members receiving disciplinary actions).

However, given the importance of the subject, the UA Moderators have tried to host this discussion but odd here as UA is not the top 1 or 2 or 3 for MAX among North America carriers. However, some have allowed their passion and non-UA related opinions to repeatedly disrupt this discussion.

The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.

Discussion of Boeing's culture or the impact on Boeing's future is not in scope. Nor is comments on restructuring the regulatory process. Neither is the impacts on COVID on the general air industry -- those are not UA specific and are better discussed elsewhere. And for discussion of UA's future, there is a separate thread.

Additionally repeated postings of essentially the same content should not happen nor unnecessarily inflammatory posts. And of course, the rest of FT posting rules apply including discuss the issue and not the posters.

The Moderator team feels there is a reason / need for this thread but it has been exhausting to have to repeated re-focus the discussion -- don't be the reason this thread is permanently closed ( and get yourself in disciplinary problems).

Stick to the relevant topic which is (repeating myself)
The reason for continuing this thread is to inform the UA traveler on the status of the MAX recertification and if / when UA might deploy the MAX aircraft. And UA flyer's thoughts about UA deploying the MAX if that was to happen.

WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
================================================== ========

The first B737 MAX, an enhanced version of the B737 family, started service in May 2016, a MAX 8. MAX 9 entered service March 2018. (UA service start date??)
The MAX series was ground in March 2019 after two incidents involve the MCAS; Lion Air Flight 610 - Wikipedia and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 - Wikipedia

United did not fly the 737 MAX 8 that has been involved in two recent crashes, but it had operated the 737 MAX 9.

All 737 MAX aircraft worldwide (MAX 8, MAX 9, and MAX 10) were grounded. Boeing in conjunction with FAA, EASA, Transport Canada and other national air safety organizations entered into a cause investigation, into the MCAS operation, into if sufficient training had been provided and into if the original certification process had been sufficient rigid.
Preliminary Summary of the FAAs Review of the Boeing 737 MAX (PDF).

The FAA (18 Nov 2020), EASA (24 Nov 2020) and Transport Canada (17 Dec 2020) have re-certified the MAX 8 & MAX 9 for commercial flight
Boeing 737 MAX certification - Wikipedia

AA resumed use of MAX8 on 29 Dec 2020
UA plans to resumes service of the MAX9 in Feb 2020 (from IAH and DEN)

Airlines have resumed taking deliveries of the MAX 8 & 9

================
How to tell if your flight is scheduled to be operated by the MAX 9:

View your reservation or flight status page, either on the web or on the app. United lists the entire aircraft type. Every flight that is scheduled to be on the 737 MAX will say "Boeing 737 MAX 9." If you see anything else -- for example, "Boeing 737-900," it is not scheduled to be a MAX at this time.

The same is true in search results and anywhere else on the United site.

For advanced users: UA uses the three letter IATA identifier 7M9 for the 737 MAX 9.



B737MAX Recertification - Archive






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Old Jun 28, 20, 6:45 am
  #1  
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B737MAX-Cleared by FAA to resume passenger flights;UA MAX flights resumed 11 Feb 2020

"Boeing 737 MAX certification flight tests to begin on Monday"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN23Z040

"The crew will run methodically scripted mid-air scenarios such as steep-banking turns, progressing to more extreme maneuvers on a route primarily over Washington state. The plan over at least three days could include touch-and-go landings at the eastern Washington airport in Moses Lake, and a path over the Pacific Ocean coastline, adjusting the flight plan and timing as needed for weather and other factors, one of the people said.

Pilots will also intentionally trigger the reprogrammed stall-prevention software known as MCAS faulted in both crashes, and aerodynamic stall conditions, the people said.

<snip>

The rigors of the test campaign go beyond previous Boeing test flights, completed in a matter of hours on a single day, industry sources say."
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Old Jul 3, 20, 11:13 am
  #2  
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If you had told me in spring of 2019 that the MAX wouldn't fly again for over a year, I would've told you... well, whatever.

RNE, a happy pax on the 737-MAX inaugural FI flight CLE-KEF.
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Old Jul 3, 20, 1:59 pm
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Originally Posted by RNE View Post
If you had told me in spring of 2019 that the MAX wouldn't fly again for over a year, I would've told you... well, whatever.

RNE, a happy pax on the 737-MAX inaugural FI flight CLE-KEF.
A frequently flyer who has never been on a MAX and actively changed flights when there was a switch to a MAX on any leg.

It will not be enough for me that the FAA signs off. It is going to take international agencies doing so before I will set foot on a MAX flight.

It will be interesting to see how the rest of the flying public react to flying on the MAX.
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Old Jul 3, 20, 2:06 pm
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I remember Oscar saying that when the UA Max returned to flight he’d be the first one to fly it. Well, Oscar is gone. I wonder if Kirby will be first on board ? As for myself, I’ve never considered myself a nervous flyer, and that being said I’ll avoid them like the plague.
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Old Jul 3, 20, 2:18 pm
  #5  
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Originally Posted by n198ua View Post
I remember Oscar saying that when the UA Max returned to flight hed be the first one to fly it. Well, Oscar is gone. I wonder if Kirby will be first on board ? As for myself, Ive never considered myself a nervous flyer, and that being said Ill avoid them like the plague.
...and now we've got a plague. See what you've dne?!
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Old Jul 3, 20, 2:19 pm
  #6  
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Originally Posted by RNE View Post
If you had told me in spring of 2019 that the MAX wouldn't fly again for over a year, I would've told you... well, whatever.

RNE, a happy pax on the 737-MAX inaugural FI flight CLE-KEF.
Ya, I am a S & P 500 kind of guy, but was thinking, now's the time to buy Boeing stock, it's needlessly undervalued, they'll recover quick

Guess there ARE some good things about being a procrastinator

And given we know what caused the crashes, given pilots will be trained and by now probably know exactly what to do, and given that Boeing scaled back the power previously given to MCAS, I'd join RNE on the inaugural flight, though methinks it would not be CLE-KEF
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Old Jul 3, 20, 2:20 pm
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Originally Posted by Aussienarelle View Post
A frequently flyer who has never been on a MAX and actively changed flights when there was a switch to a MAX on any leg.

It will not be enough for me that the FAA signs off. It is going to take international agencies doing so before I will set foot on a MAX flight.

It will be interesting to see how the rest of the flying public react to flying on the MAX.
I'd agree and perhaps go a bit further -- some of the talk as about many regulators allowing the plane to fly now with the promise that further changes (like adding a synthetic airspeed system) be done later. That at least helps us with the "when" -- I'll wait for those, thank you very much. I see no reason, especially in the near term air travel climate, to rush the plane back until the proper redundancy and pilot training are completed.

It's amazing how quickly and properly things can get done when there's actual pressure to do them -- despite dragging their feet and complaining (along with other airlines) after an uncontained engine failure that they couldn't possibly inspect all of their planes without disrupting travel, Southwest was able to do so within weeks...after a second uncontained failure killed one of their passengers. The need for DC-10 cargo door fixes were identified years before finally being implemented...after another failure killed 346 people.

Just step back, fix it right, train as needed, and I'll be happy to fly on one then.
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Old Jul 3, 20, 2:52 pm
  #8  
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Originally Posted by narvik View Post
The rigors of the test campaign go beyond previous Boeing test flights, completed in a matter of hours on a single day, industry sources say."
How comforting...

Originally Posted by Aussienarelle View Post
A frequently flyer who has never been on a MAX and actively changed flights when there was a switch to a MAX on any leg.

It will not be enough for me that the FAA signs off. It is going to take international agencies doing so before I will set foot on a MAX flight.

It will be interesting to see how the rest of the flying public react to flying on the MAX.
Beyond the safety aspect of this questionable aircraft, I won't be boarding one simply from a comfort perspective. Not really in the mood to be stuffed into a 737 of any variety beyond a couple hours.
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Old Jul 3, 20, 3:02 pm
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Originally Posted by Aussienarelle View Post
It will not be enough for me that the FAA signs off. It is going to take international agencies doing so before I will set foot on a MAX flight.

It will be interesting to see how the rest of the flying public react to flying on the MAX.
I think the FAA recognizes consensus with other regulators is needed. Theres a group of 5 (I think) regulators working on this together. I know EASA and Chinas approvals are key though the current pandemic and political relationship could impact how quickly they can complete their process.
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Old Jul 3, 20, 3:15 pm
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Originally Posted by n198ua View Post
I remember Oscar saying that when the UA Max returned to flight hed be the first one to fly it. Well, Oscar is gone.
Oscar isn't gone. He's Executive Chairman now.
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Old Jul 3, 20, 3:51 pm
  #11  
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Originally Posted by EmailKid View Post
Ya, I am a S & P 500 kind of guy, but was thinking, now's the time to buy Boeing stock, it's needlessly undervalued, they'll recover quick
Very, very doubtful.

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Old Jul 3, 20, 4:05 pm
  #12  
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Originally Posted by DELee View Post
Very, very doubtful.

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Old Jul 3, 20, 4:16 pm
  #13  
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Originally Posted by EmailKid View Post

When the market gets annihilated in the coming months Boeing stock will suffer with or without a MAX in service. Not to mention the likelihood of air travel not returning to normal levels for years thus little need for new aircraft.
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Old Jul 3, 20, 5:06 pm
  #14  
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Originally Posted by narvik View Post
"Boeing 737 MAX certification flight tests to begin on Monday"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN23Z040

"The crew will run methodically scripted mid-air scenarios such as steep-banking turns, progressing to more extreme maneuvers on a route primarily over Washington state. The plan over at least three days could include touch-and-go landings at the eastern Washington airport in Moses Lake, and a path over the Pacific Ocean coastline, adjusting the flight plan and timing as needed for weather and other factors, one of the people said.

Pilots will also intentionally trigger the reprogrammed stall-prevention software known as MCAS faulted in both crashes, and aerodynamic stall conditions, the people said.

<snip>

The rigors of the test campaign go beyond previous Boeing test flights, completed in a matter of hours on a single day, industry sources say."
These are just preliminary tests flights - there is a ton of work to be done before commercial service is even on the drawing board. All the upcoming incomplete systems revisions need countless test flights at the regulation level, then the airlines will do their own test flights and simulations - and when new stuff is found, then back to the drawing board. No airline is in the mood to take deliveries of anything now, even if it was a perfect airplane. I am still holding firm, no MAX flights until 2021 at the earliest.
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Old Jul 3, 20, 6:23 pm
  #15  
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Originally Posted by EmailKid View Post
I'd join RNE on the inaugural flight, though methinks it would not be CLE-KEF
No, not anymore, but while it lasted, FI's 737 MAX ex-CLE was a nice way to fly TATL. FI's KEF base is ideally located to make that doable in a 737. I hope the route returns... someday.
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